I'm a huge fan of Yuzuru, but it's clear that Patrick's skating skills are waaay better - at the moment. It will be interesting to see how fast Yuzu-san can catch up - I'd very much like to see him beat Patrick at some point, maybe not in Sochi 2014 but after (that is, if Patrick continues skating after the Olympics).
Can Chan beat Hanyu if both skate their best?
- Thread starter Mao88
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- Mar 25, 2008
I'll grant you the superior skating skills, but why does it matter that Chan has a quad? Hanyu already has two different quads and a much more consistent 3A that he can do out of difficult entries.
I'm not sure what happens if both skate their best this season. If they continue to progress at similar rates to what they have so far, by next season I'm going to give the edge to Hanyu - because Chan appears to have reached his peak technically and is very near (if not beyond) it on the components, unlike Hanyu, who still has room to grow and keeps adding new things to his repertoire. However, whether Hanyu can skate his best is always a question mark given his asthma.
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- Sep 10, 2012
If they both skate their best (but this is really an impossible thing to happen this season in the same competition, considering Patrick's incostance and Hanyu's physical probelms), with the abilities and the jumps they have at the moment, I think Patrick will obviously win. His PCS would be superior, with a clean program his SS, CH and PE marks would be near 10, and the other components around 9.75, when Hanyu can reach marks between 9 and 9.50, especially considering the weak choreography of his FS this season... then we have the elements: when they land them, they can both receive +2 and +3 for their quads and 3As, but Patrick's "normal" triples (lutz, flip, loop, salchow) are better, and so are his spins and steps (also Hanyu's spins and steps are beautiful, but Patrick's are just a bit better!), so I think that at the moment (again!), Patrick would be better than Hanyu. But, if Yuzuru will keep working with Brian and Wilson/Buttle he can catch Patrick, I think, in the future...
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- Jun 27, 2012
In my opinion Chan will beat Yuzuru in worlds. Both skaters are member of the new generation, they grew up under the new system, but the Worlds will held in Canada. I think, Patrick will be in great shape there, and Canada is his home country. Plus he is 3 years older than Yuzuru. I think, Yuzuru could defeat easily the 18 y.o. Patrick. It's the future.
(But that is the history, Yagudin wasn't so prodigy and talented like Plushenko, and he wasn't innovative like Plush.)
(But that is the history, Yagudin wasn't so prodigy and talented like Plushenko, and he wasn't innovative like Plush.)
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- Dec 29, 2011
FSGMT said:
Spins...? I don't mean to be rude - but are you serious? His spins are Patricks weakest point, and while he's good at centering them and they're really not slow, Yuzurus are faster and he is more flexible and has more variety in his positions + harder ones (this season Yuzuru's spins aren't looking that good anymore, but if you look at last season...). I think Yuzuru is definitly the better spinner.
About the other triples: I'm pretty sure that's his lack of stamina kicking in. The later in the program, the less +GOE Yuzu gets for his jumps. He did the 3F as the third jump last worlds, and got about +2 for that too. If he'd had the stamina, I'm pretty sure the later jumps would still garner huge +GOE too - quite in the same amount as Patrick's.
To get back on the overall question - that's so tough!
I think Yuzuru would win the TES... not by much, but the second 3A + his better spins would make him come out ahead. PCS would go to Patrick and would probably make him win overall - that would at least be how it should be for me. Anyway, if Yuzuru continues to develop like he did those last years (and I don't really see a reason why he shouldn't), he might be the one winning this comparison next season.
I'd still say Patrick is the one to beat and will be next season, because he's more likely to be clean than Yuzuru is (as things are lokking now).
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- Sep 10, 2009
Maybe you are not sure. Patrick is sure:
"I mainly worked on the technique. Much more than on the artistry. Components have always been my strong point. I always find it easy to deal with PCS."
"I think that learning 4F and 4S is more like funning around. My favourite was always 4T. I am sure in this jump."
http://ua.championat.com/other/article-142947-chjen--o-vystuplenii-na-cup-of-russia.html
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- Oct 19, 2009
These are two of my favourite male skaters right now. Yuzuru Hanyu is an adorable and incredibly talented youngster. However, Patrick Chan is still the better skater between the two of them. For now, I would be surprised if they both skated at their very best and the judges gave it to Hanyu.
Actually they're 4 years apart in age,
Patrick's birth date: 31.12.1990
Yuzuru's birth date: 07.12.1994
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- Jun 27, 2012
Yes, yes, I know! I did a mistake, I'm sorry!
I have no doubt that barring injury Hanyu should be able to beat Patrick in the future. But I think it will take Hanyu a couple of years at least to get his PCS to Patrick's level.
Hanyu's potential is immense because of his age and the level he is at. Quads at an early age can lead to severe injuries though and he will have to balance that off as he grows older.
For now if they both skate lights out it will be Patrick's to lose.
Hanyu's potential is immense because of his age and the level he is at. Quads at an early age can lead to severe injuries though and he will have to balance that off as he grows older.
For now if they both skate lights out it will be Patrick's to lose.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
YES. Without a doubt. Hanyu is an amazing jumper but he doesn't have the presentation and musicality that Patrick does. Will he get it? Who knows. I agree with whoever said throwing quads at such an early age - and he isn't a very big man - can cause irreparable damage. For me, it takes ALOT more than quads to make a skater great!
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
I disagree. Hanyu was better in presentation. In the COR was the first time, when I saw Patrick's emotions. The learned movements aren't art.
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- Jun 3, 2009
plushyfan, were you arguing that Hanyu at 18 could beat Chan at 18? Because that is definitely true, imo.
Anyway, we should hope we're so lucky to see a competition wherein these two talents skate their absolute best.
Anyway, we should hope we're so lucky to see a competition wherein these two talents skate their absolute best.
Hanyu at 18 could likely beat Chan at 18. At 18 Chan had no quads, his Triple Axle was not where it should be etc etc. His flow and edges were still pretty good but not as well honed as they are now.
But the question asked was could a 21/22 year Chan beat a 17/18 year old Hanyu or at any rate that is what I thought the writer was asking.
But the question asked was could a 21/22 year Chan beat a 17/18 year old Hanyu or at any rate that is what I thought the writer was asking.
I think it would be more accurate to say
"Can Yuzuru Hanyu beat Patrick Chan if both skate at their best? "
This I agree with. I just don't get the comparison yet and I'm not a "fan" of either. If clean "enough" with 2 good quads imo Chan wins. Of course anyone on any day can be beaten.
ITA..
Presentation I might agree with, to a certain extent - Hanyu doesn't have Patrick's skating skills, and he isn't as refined, not yet. But as a musician, what actually impressed me the first time I saw Hanyu skate, last year, was his musicality. Not the quads, or actually his jumpsh at all, besides how they were timed with the music, along with the rest of his elements. That's a talent, and he can still get better than he is now, but it's inborn. As talented as Patrick is, I can't really say the same about him. He has other qualities.
Besides that, saying that Hanyu is just jumps is rather offensive. He's an artist, as much as Patrick is one too. The difference is in their respective experience in expressing themselves. He needs time to grow, it's raw, but it's there and it's evident. Is artistry even quantifiable? If it is or not to our tastes - that's for each of us to say.
Onto the subject of the topic: right now, if they both skate clean Patrick's PCs would probably be so high that the difference in TES wouldn't matter. But if Hanyu catches up even a little bit on the second mark, by next year the results could be different.
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- Mar 25, 2008
Oh, it is absolutely true. Age-wise, for Yuzuru this season is the equivalent of Chan's 2008-9 season, as they both turn(ed) 18 in December; career-wise, it's equivalent to 2009-10, because Yuzuru moved up to senior earlier. Entering his age 18 season, Chan had never scored more than 215 points, did not have a quad, had a very inconsistent 3A and was not as good a spinner. He did have an edge on skating skills, but his base value was quite low compared to what Hanyu is doing and I'd argue that the latter has a better feel for music and performance compared to Chan at the same age. Entering this season, Hanyu's PB was 251 (I think maybe 10 points of the difference can be attributed to scoring inflation in the past few years), he had a consistent 3A and 4T with another quad on the way, and was already a 4CC and World medalist. He is now a world record holder as well - an achievement that eluded Chan until later on in his career. All this despite not being his country's no. 1. I'm hesitant to compare their third senior season as Chan was dealing with the aftereffects of an injury for a large part of it. But regardless, Yuzuru is an unusually precocious skater and a very fast-rising one - and although Chan himself is a special talent and had his breakthrough as a teen, he didn't develop quite so rapidly. But who knows, maybe Nathan Chen will outstrip them both soon enough.
As for Hanyu now vs. Chan now (and in the future), I stand by what I wrote in my previous post.
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- Jun 11, 2012
I didn't say Hanyu was just a jumper. I said he was an amazing jumper. And he does interpret music alot better than some of his Japanese contemporaries - but IMO he is not in Patrick's league yet. If he continues to skate and is injury free I could see where he would continue to develop and mature. Or maybe what it comes down to is a person's personal preference for skating style. I like Patrick's and I do think he has a natural sense of music interpretation but when he was 18 he was more focussed on developing his jumps. It seems to me that many male skaters get their jumps and spins down first. You see many young men with incredible jumping ability. I was amazed at US Nats this year at some of the junior and novice men skaters and what they were able to do. BUT....they didn't have the maturity in their presentation yet. Yes they could land a jump on the beat of the music and could interpret choreography. But for me, watching any figure skater, I dont' want to separate the jumps and the "tricks" from the music. I want it to be as one with neither standing out over the other. Just my preference. But I also think it's kind of pointless to imagine what Patrick and Hanyu would have done if they were the same age at the same time. Skating has advanced immeasurably over the past 3-4 years. Again, JMO. It makes for a somewhat fun conversation but it doesn't prove anything. They are who they are - now!
