Johnny Weir - Thoughts after CoR?

[noskates]

Possibly - but how many years ago was Oksana Baiul? 1994? That's 18 years ago. And Galina is in her early 60's I think. You have alot more fire in you at the age of 38 or so than you do at 62. Just saying. I'm not dismissing the concept that she's just in it for the money, but to hear Johnny talk she bosses him around pretty good. In any case - a change would have been nice.

 

[emma]

I'm sorry but I remain confused....I understand that Weir didn't finish CoR and now has withdrawn from France. So my confusion is....does he now loose his bye to nationals? Thanks in advance!

 

[Mrs. P]

I'm sorry but I remain confused....I understand that Weir didn't finish CoR and now has withdrawn from France. So my confusion is....does he now loose his bye to nationals? Thanks in advance!

Regulation 2515 (a) + (b) states that a bye to National is given when:

B. The competitor is assigned to and competes in a singles, pairs and/or ice dance event in an international competition; and
C. The competition mentioned in (B) conflicts with the competitor’s sectional championships.

So yes, no doubt that Johnny Weir was assigned to COR, which conflicted with Eastern Sectionals. The question is whether completing just the SP in said competition counts. I say it was because he did travel to the competition and tried to compete in good faith at COR. (It might have been different if he withdrew from the competition beforehand)....

 

[Rikku]

I agree galina is not right for Johnny tho I loved many of Victor's pro programs. Johnny is stale and his Gaga is a retread. Also agree they look like show programs, not CoP. I think it is hard for someone to step out of the limelight gracefully and move on. Even MK fans felt 2004 Tosca was her last great skate and pushing thru injury to 2006 was only about the Oly medal, and with the rapid rise of Arakawa and the possibility of Irina and Sasha medalling-it was not likely even MK would have podiumed. Johnny may have a somewhat consistent quad, or not, but he is a nervous competitor.

It is always about attention with Johnny. I like Gaga's original piece of music-orchestrations of so-so pop don't always make good sp. But he has done these show prorams so many times to her music. I think Nationals will be his final swan song, as it was for Sasha. He skated beautifully in Vancouver-pure Johnny. It seems that he should have moved on with a very nice skate-even though it was more 6.0 in composition. He has fame, what more?

Does anyone know his LP music?

In the article, Johnny discusses his long program for this season:

"The free is called 'Phoenix' and its pieces are by the group Escala ['Sarabande' and 'Requiem'] and violinist Edvin Marton [a Chopin selection]. I chose music I love and am inspired by. They are classics, but the way we've arranged the program nobody will think, 'Oh, I've seen this before.'"

 

[skateluvr]

Well, we have talked of his skating, how about his affect if any on how skating is perceived. I do not have any problem with his orientation, as as the saying Goes he was born that way, and God loves all his kids. But do you think Johnny should continue being so flamboyant? His Sp costume was toned down but still effeminate. Does Johnny help or hurt popularity of FS? It seems he has a large fan base, and I am not sure if that means he is well liked generally or in skating centers like NYC where there are 10 million very independent type people. My city would be parochial to a New Yorker, and deprssing I am sure. I don't get there so I don't really know "New York."

Is Johnny a plus or a minus now to a sport that is very small indeed in the USA at elite level. We have two comeback kids, one flashy as all getout, the other very conservative (except for the vera snake outfit.) who is well liked by the USFSA and respected generally by most skate fans if not loved. We have Adam Rippon, a beautiful stylist, who can't compete well. He dresses consrvatively -for a skater- and we have Jeremy, who is a very artistic being. We have Dornbush and Miner who are not out there with the clothes etc. I just wonder how people feel Johnny plays to the average skate fan looking for skating on TV-plus or minus? I think some of his outfits and his reality show may have given people an idea that is false, that most figureskaters are gay. I think this is not true over time and cultures, but my question is, does this matter anymore? Skating has so many critics who think it is a pageant with skimpy costumes. I don't know many people who care that skating is dying, the way we do on this and other boards.

And I wonder how he will be received at Nationals given his SP and the injury withdrawal. I sorta don't believe the injury thing as it is used when people are bombing on ice too frequently. I seem to think Johnny has lost his cache as the crazy guy with the out there quotes. He is a married man now and he seems much quieter, even dull compared to the very un PC Johnny that appealed to a lot of skate fans and folks in general. Your thoughts on his affect on mens skating in USA? Good , bad, or no real effect?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Your thoughts on his affect on mens skating in USA? Good , bad, or no real effect?

Comparing his programs to Jeremy or other top men, there just isn't enough going on between elements. I don't think he'll be a factor.

 

[skateluvr]

thanks Daisy, I agree with what you feel. His prograams are quite empty by CoP standards. I did love his skate in vancouver, and I guess it was fair when there are no difficult transitions and easy footwork. But what do you feel about his influence on the skating world as a person, and his insistence on outre outfits and his posing in tights and heel, barechested with a pompadour? It seems all that got him disliked by the USFSA, then they seemed to welcome him back. Are they desperate for interest in nationals? I recall what jaime sale felt about his Russian team jackets etc.

Does Johnny portray a persona that attracts new possible fans or has he pushed them away? I realize without a poll, it would be hard to know. I can guess that many would find Trump boorish without a poll, even in NYC where anything goes, but how has Johnny affected US skating and families who think maybe skating would be good for their kid? My guess is people are now so blase since TV/internet have are saturated with non-family entertainment, my own opinion is Johnny is pretty irrelevant, and has gotten his 15 minutes of fame with shock value. I think his fan base will dwindle quite quickly. why would he get more reality shows if he cannot get to another olympics? There does not seem much interest here on GS. I think that is very telling about him becoming a has been-D listed in 2013. But I don't live in NYC. maybe he aand hubby are quite in demand. i wouldn't know.

i see him gone from skating after Nationals, and losing his fan base as he is not able to skate with the top men. i.e the comeback is a flop in more ways than one.:sarcasm:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Does Johnny portray a persona that attracts new possible fans or has he pushed them away? I realize without a poll, it would be hard to know.

I think his participation is good for engaging the LGBT community. There aren't a lot of sports in which an openly gay athlete reaches the highest levels so I'm sure he is a role model for those who want to undertake an athletic endeavor and also be who they are. He had his own show on the LOGO channel (the LGBT cable channel here in the US) so that increased both his and the sport's visibility. And I think while some people may be turned off by him, they aren't turned off by skating in general. So it seems like a net positive to me.

I just hope he doesn't pout if he receives low scores for his empty programs because I'd hate for those in the LGBT community to think his low scores are because the judges have a problem with him being gay. Now that I know more about COP, and see the programs that score well, I realize his skating isn't suited to this judging system very much.

 

[adamanna]

I think there will be no Nationals. Or again another withdrawal after another poorly skated SP (but if he somehow manages to skate a clean program and still gets poor marks - undoubtedly the marks are gonna be poor, his programs are empty - then we will hear many talks about politics, homophobia, etc., same as after Vancouver).

The problem with Johnny is that he doesn't possess a mindset of an athlete, he's not competitor. And he's not interested in winning, it seems. I have an impression that of the sport, he wants fame, whirling in TV-shows saying so-called "outrageous" things, getting attention, glamour, sparky costumes, and applauses in big arenas, and other things like that. Same things he seems to be wanting out of fashion, too. He doesn't want nor to work neither to compete. I think he managed pretty good to get the most out of life with the least of work, thanks to his talent.

As for his costumes, etc. - I think he would be very entertaining if he skated well. "Outrageous" press conferences, heels and his costumes would be much fun if there were any medals. Only champions have impact or effect on anybody or anything, in my opinion.

 

[emma]

thanks Mrs. P

 

[noskates]

Well, here I am defending him again. I wish I could find the interview but sometime during or immediately after US Nats this year Johnny spoke to his relationship with the USFSA. He had met with members of that group during Nationals to discuss a possible comeback and was encouraged to come back to figure skating in the US because it was felt that he would be a crowd pleaser. I do believe the USFSA realizes they've lost significant support from TV and the viewing community and need something to get it back. And whether or not you like Johnny he does create interest. I think many on this board are alot more technically adept than I am. They know the ins and outs of the judging system and can take a program right down to the nubs, dissect it from every angle. While I have great respect for that kind of knowledge, I'm your average figure skating fan with a modicum of knowledge from watching it for over 30 years. I may know a little more than the average person sitting in an arena but certainly nowhere near the knowledge that exists on this board. I say that because I watch figure skating for the enjoyment of it. I also tend to believe people until proven otherwise. Johnny isn't in figure skating for anything other than an extreme love of the sport. Yes his costumes are flamboyant and he's "original" but he isn't the only gay skater in the world. If his programs are simple or don't have the other elements that some of the top skaters have - so what. It will be reflected in the scores. But a well-skated simple program will probably beat a poorly skated program full of two-footed quad jumps and spins with eleventeen positions. I think the average figure skating fan enjoys watching Johnny skate. I think he creates interest because of his flamboyance and costumes. But I honestly honestly don't think he's lying about his injury. Call me naive..........but that's what I believe.

 

[adamanna]

I'm sorry for being so negative... I didn't mean to offend anybody. Actually, I really do like Johnny a lot as a skater, that's why I'm interested in this subject at all and discussing it. But this season... I don't see him as a crowd pleaser anymore. He just recycles his former self.
And I just don't understand this comeback, why do it?
Out of pure love for sport and hope for Olympics in dear country? If his programs are simple or don't have the other elements that some of the top skaters have - so what. It will be reflected in the scores. It surely will, but why then hoping for Olympics, with programs that even if skated clean can't get him anywhere? Yes, Galina is certainly a 6.0 coach, but she's not blind or stupid. And if it is a pure love for sport - why not to try something NEW? at least some different song of lady GaGa...
Or maybe this come back was mounted out of desire to gain attention? ...


as for gay thing - I didn't meant that at all, actually I'm not even interested in his (or anybody's for that matter) sexual life. I just don't care.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Or maybe this come back was mounted out of desire to gain attention?

This is possible. It is hard for skaters to be relevant once they retire now that most of the professional opportunities are gone. If he wants to do television and be a gay athlete/icon, it is important for him to stay in the limelight and excel in the sport that made him famous. I think he knows he won't be winning any World or Olympic medals, but he can certainly compete for the podium at Nationals if he skates his best.

 

[noskates]

Adamanna - no offense taken. But I do disagree with you about Johnny being a crowd pleaser. I think he brings excitement to wherever he skates. And he still has a fairly large fanbase. As for talking about the Olys, why would anyone come back and say "oh I just want to skate Nationals!" I would hope in his heart of hearts that he's being realistic about his chances even at Nationals. But it does bother me that a smart coach like Galina can't see that his program isn't competitive - if it isn't!

Anyway - I've posted too much in this thread already. What will be, will be.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

But it does bother me that a smart coach like Galina can't see that his program isn't competitive - if it isn't

You can't blame Galina. Just because someone should be doing more in-betweens doesn't mean they can. Johnny skated an empty program and still made jumping mistakes, so he needs to skate clean before worrying about more difficult choreography.

 

[skateluvr]

I think adamanna you are not being negative. You simply state how you see it and I think Weir has shown how done he is, even his ubers will be praying in English and Russian IF he competes at Nationals. If Evan does come back, and Jeremy, Adam, Ricky, Ross skate even fairly well, Johnny will be lucky to place fifth. I expect a withdrawal, as has become the custom that even MK chose. Never retire, just fade away and go on with a new direction.

It is a bit sad, but Johnny has good freinds, some good memories of when he was promising, and truly elegant, plus he seems happily married to a man he loves and is all he seems to have wanted. There will be more shows-maybe invitations to a Russian show or an Asian show, but I think he is really cooked. Local "celeb" shows to skate for a New York gay community cause. In a way I am disappointed, as he was so disappointing. I hope Evan's comeback is real and possible. I know Evan will work very hard to make it possible, but I somehow doubt he will embarrass himself as Oly Gold medalist.

I guess it shows the state of mens skating in the west that Russia needs 30 year old Evgeny and 29 year old Menshov, while we are looking to veterans to pick up some interest. USFSA really needs to find new corporate sponsors to get some money in the sport and push to get events televised if they have to give the rights away. Asking Johnny back smacks of desperation.

I expect better of Evan if he is not injured. Mens is dismal really with men who are poor competitors. I really was amazed Ryan Bradley, a not very good skater was awarded the NC. So while some don't like Evan's skating, i see a lot to like. I hope Nationals is not a splatfest. It seems only Evan and Dornbush have a competitive mentality. We do not have anyone other than Evan that can compete at all consistently. I hope he is skating well. I have not heard any news on this forum-tho I feel I will seek it out otherwise.