What's a Connection? Discussion inspired by NHK FD Thread.

[cleoc]

Just asking - why this thread named What's a Connection?
Its look more like "Lets take about Meryl an Charlie are best team in the World" Or "Try to try down there main rivals"
Sorry, but i think we could find much more examples of good connetion, then this If we want to discuss connection, but not made D-W ubers thread

 

[Mrs. P]

Just asking - why this thread named What's a Connection?
Its look more like "Lets take about Meryl an Charlie are best team in the World" Or "Try to try down there main rivals"
Sorry, but i think we could find much more examples of good connetion, then this If we want to discuss connection, but not made D-W ubers thread

There's quite a bit of discussion regarding Tessa and Scott as well. And I just spent some times explaining sibling connection. If it's heavy on Meryl and Charlie it's because the initial discussion was about whether Meryl and Charlie have any connection....and it went from there.

I think we are having a lovely discussion, so why not join us and tell us your view on things.

 

[cleoc]

There's quite a bit of discussion regarding Tessa and Scott as well. And I just spent some times explaining sibling connection. If it's heavy on Meryl and Charlie it's because the initial discussion was about whether Meryl and Charlie have any connection....and it went from there.

I think we are having a lovely discussion, so why not join us and tell us your view on things.

Yes, i read about Tessa is too big thats why they didnt have connection
Sorry, but why to discuss connection on D-W example? I mean they never had this, but they go over this and made there style - to use a lot off speed and big music and triks. Honestly this work really good for them, because you couldt have time to notice how Charlie looking at Meryl, beasue they need to run too fast to there next element. And big music get attention over what they are doing on ice. They coudnt use too mane skating in dance postition, because they need to save speed. But this look very impressive "live". And they never try something new and there bodies move alwayse the same. But this payed-off to them, which is great.

If you want really talk about connection i think its better to talk about W-P. And for me its look like all teams in DSC work hard on connection and i could see results of this work. Maybe they are working with actors.
And they main thing in V-M - there connection with any kind of music an with each other.
W-P had such great connection with music and each other in last seaon FD. Hope they will add something in this season FD before Nationals, wich made this FD look better.
I think to talk about good connection on Shibs example look werid, no?

 

[chuckm]

Just asking - why this thread named What's a Connection?
Its look more like "Lets take about Meryl an Charlie are best team in the World" Or "Try to try down there main rivals"
Sorry, but i think we could find much more examples of good connetion, then this If we want to discuss connection, but not made D-W ubers thread

Go back a few messages and see my post on the CoP definitions of "connection".
Connection to the MUSIC and the AUDIENCE are CoP requirements, but an emotional connection between the dancers is NOT a requirement. V/M fans rave over the connection between Tessa and Scott, and as lovely as that may be, that kind of connection is not among the criteria for awarding PCS points.

 

[cleoc]

Go back a few messages and see my post on the CoP definitions of "connection".
Connection to the MUSIC and the AUDIENCE are CoP requirements, but an emotional connection between the dancers is NOT a requirement. V/M fans rave over the connection between Tessa and Scott, and as lovely as that may be, that kind of connection is not among the criteria for awarding PCS points.

Yes, but the title is about connection, so. Why we talikng about D-W and V-M fans? Like i said befre- this thread need to have anther title, thats all

 

[gkelly]

Or keep the title and bring in lots more examples from other eras and other parts of the world -- and from pair skating as well as dance -- so that it becomes a discussion about the concept and not about specific teams.

 

[tulosai]

Yes, i read about Tessa is too big thats why they didnt have connection
Sorry, but why to discuss connection on D-W example? I mean they never had this, but they go over this and made there style - to use a lot off speed and big music and triks. Honestly this work really good for them, because you couldt have time to notice how Charlie looking at Meryl, beasue they need to run too fast to there next element. And big music get attention over what they are doing on ice. They coudnt use too mane skating in dance postition, because they need to save speed. But this look very impressive "live". And they never try something new and there bodies move alwayse the same. But this payed-off to them, which is great.

If you want really talk about connection i think its better to talk about W-P. And for me its look like all teams in DSC work hard on connection and i could see results of this work. Maybe they are working with actors.
And they main thing in V-M - there connection with any kind of music an with each other.
W-P had such great connection with music and each other in last seaon FD. Hope they will add something in this season FD before Nationals, wich made this FD look better.
I think to talk about good connection on Shibs example look werid, no?

As I think I am the only one who mentioned Tessa's size I want to say that you either totally did not read what I said or willfull misread it. I was talking about their lifts ONLY, said I did not think she had to lose weight but that I did think less acrobatic lifts would work better for them due to their sizes (and there is no denying they are close in size) as they have in the past, and cited one especially gorgeous lift of theirs. I said nothing about their connection or lack thereof.

For what it is worth, everyone has expressed my thoughts way better than me but I think Tessa and Scott have a fantastic connection, very romantic and whimsical, sometimes verging on the passionate. I think Meryl and Charlie have a fantastic connection too but don't share your feeling that this thread is all about D/W. If it seems that way I actually think that is a nod to V/M in a sense, as their connection is perhaps so obvious to people that they feel less need to defend or explain it.

 

[cleoc]

Or keep the title and bring in lots more examples from other eras and other parts of the world -- and from pair skating as well as dance -- so that it becomes a discussion about the concept and not about specific teams.

OK. I was alwayse impressed with Grishuck-Platov connection. They wasnt so close off-ice, but on ice it was a real fire. Especially i think this was noticable in there "Feelings begin" FD and exibition on "FRoze" by Madona.
As for pair skaters. I think all thinking about G-G Yes, this is the best example. But i think some others had good connection too.
Now i am impressed with Berton-Hotarek connection in there programs. They are hot
I think Bereznay-Sicharulidaze and Sale-Peletire had good connection too.

Maybe i am wrong, but i think Barabara and Maurizio were strong in showing man and woman in there programs. The same about Anisina-Peizerat.
Or, Dubruel-Loson good example. I am sure i could remeber more later

 

[Mrs. P]

Yes, i read about Tessa is too big thats why they didnt have connection
Sorry, but why to discuss connection on D-W example? I mean they never had this, but they go over this and made there style - to use a lot off speed and big music and triks. Honestly this work really good for them, because you couldt have time to notice how Charlie looking at Meryl, beasue they need to run to fast to there next element. And big music get attention over what they are doing on ice. They coudnt use too mane skating in dance postition, because they need to save speed. But this look very impressive "live". And they never try something new and there bodies move alwayse the same. But this payed-off to them, wich is great.

If you want really talk about connection i think its better to talk about W-P. And for me its look like all teams in DSC work hard on connection and i could see results of this work. Maybe they are working with actors.
And they main thing in V-M - there connection with any kind of music an with each other.
W-P had such great connection with music and each other in last seaon FD. Hope they will add something in this season FD before Nationals, wich made this FD look better.

Well why shouldn't we? I think people are not trying to tear V/M down. In fact this discussion has been quite gratifying and makes me realize how lucky we are as fans to have two very lovely teams who express connection in very different sides. As I said, there are people who aren't drawn to one team or the other's connection, but it doesn't mean that neither expression/connection is not valid.

I noted earlier that W/P has taken acting classes. I don't know about the others, but I will say all the DSC teams clearly have their own way to connecting to the audience. I really like how well P/B projects to the audience. I'm not in love with their FD, but I love how expressive they are and how much the draw the audience in to their dancing.

 

[Mrs. P]

For what it is worth, everyone has expressed my thoughts way better than me but I think Tessa and Scott have a fantastic connection, very romantic and whimsical, sometimes verging on the passionate. I think Meryl and Charlie have a fantastic connection too but don't share your feeling that this thread is all about D/W. If it seems that way I actually think that is a nod to V/M in a sense, as their connection is perhaps so obvious to people that they feel less need to defend or explain it.

Exactly.

 

[tulosai]

OK. I was alwayse impressed with Grishuck-Platov connection. They wasnt so close off-ice, but on ice it was a real fire. Especially i think this was noticable in there "Feelings begin" FD and exibition on "FRoze" by Madona.
As for pair skaters. I think all thinking about G-G Yes, this is the best example. But i think some others had good connection too.
Now i am impressed with Berton-Hotarek connection in there programs. They are hot
I think Bereznay-Sicharulidaze and Sale-Peletire had good connection too.

Maybe i am wrong, but i think Barabara and Maurizio were strong in showing man and woman in there programs. The same about Anisina-Peizerat.
Or, Dubruel-Loson good example. I am sure i could remeber more later

I wonder generally how much of connection really is just years spent together or even age at which people are paired. This was touched on before but many of these pairs were together for years and matched as young children (i think G/G were matched when she was 8). Something to think of especially now when pairs break up left and right on the drop of a dime.

 

[cleoc]

As I think I am the only one who mentioned Tessa's size I want to say that you either totally did not read what I said or willfull misread it. I was talking about their lifts ONLY, said I did not think she had to lose weight but that I did think less acrobatic lifts would work better for them due to their sizes (and there is no denying they are close in size) as they have in the past, and cited one especially gorgeous lift of theirs. I said nothing about their connection or lack thereof.

Its wrong thread, but i want to express my point about this. Honestly i am sure no other ice dancer couldnt made such acrobatic liftsm like Tessa did. I mean not only her lines in this lifts, but enterent (back flip in last lift in there FD for example). I think only Khohlova did such lift better, but she is vry small And V-M alwayse show new lifts and there lifts are most difficult, so...

 

[Mrs. P]

I wonder generally how much of connection really is just years spent together or even age at which people are paired. This was touched on before but many of these pairs were together for years and matched as young children (i think G/G were matched when she was 8). Something to think of especially now when pairs break up left and right on the drop of a dime.

That's a consideration for the three Canton teams. D/W and V/M both have skated for 15 years each. The Shibs have been partners for 8 years.

I do think longevity does help -- just look at the Chinese pairs. Neither Shen/Zhao nor Pang/Tong were all that expressive in their early years but over time their connection grew and so did their performance and skating! Pang and Tong, though they were not as technically proficient, really blew me away at Skate America by how in sync and connected they were to each other. It made for some beautiful skating!

 

[cleoc]

two very lovely teams who express connection in very different sides.

But one of the team didnt have connection, thats thats why i was wonder when i read the first part of this thread. I mean non-ubers could see this :agree:
But must they? I dont think so. Like i said efore they use there style very well.
Sorry, maybe i dpnt need to start this discussion at D-W ubers party

 

[cleoc]

I wonder generally how much of connection really is just years spent together or even age at which people are paired. This was touched on before but many of these pairs were together for years and matched as young children (i think G/G were matched when she was 8). Something to think of especially now when pairs break up left and right on the drop of a dime.

But F-P-M amd A-P didnt skate so long, like G-G i think. So maybe the fire is there?
Usually i notice italian ice dance teams and pair team have good connection with music and each other.

 

[mskater93]

Just because it is a non-romantic "connection" doesn't mean they don't have a connection. V/M have a traditional, romantic style connection in their dances. D/W have a more 19th century couple at a ball kind of connection - basically out dancing for the fun of the dance and the meeting of the minds and not necessarily about getting together. Charlie is like a "proper Victorian man" in his approach to Meryl. W/P are developing that romantic style connection. The Shibs have more of that out to have a good time connection. C/L are developing that steamy over the top drama connection. Annisina and Perzerat had more of a connection like D/W but they were an outstanding team. Grishuk and Platov DID have an connection off the ice as well - hadn't she gotten "involved" with him?

 

[fwsf]

a "connection" is not something you can watch when a couple is skating, it's something that you feel, almost an emotion that they can pass on.

ITA and if one can agree to this premise then ......

CoP definitions of "connection". Connection to the MUSIC and the AUDIENCE are CoP requirements, but an emotional connection between the dancers is NOT a requirement.

I think if connection to Audience is a requirement, then being able to make the audience feel emotion is meeting 'connection to Audience' at the highest level and deserving of high PCS scores.

 

[cleoc]

Grishuk and Platov DID have an connection off the ice as well - hadn't she gotten "involved" with him?

No. Thats show they had amazing connection

 

[Olympia]

That's a consideration for the three Canton teams. D/W and V/M both have skated for 15 years each. The Shibs have been partners for 8 years.

I do think longevity does help -- just look at the Chinese pairs. Neither Shen/Zhao nor Pang/Tong were all that expressive in their early years but over time their connection grew and so did their performance and skating! Pang and Tong, though they were not as technically proficient, really blew me away at Skate America by how in sync and connected they were to each other. It made for some beautiful skating!

Agreed. Another couple with wonderful connection is of course Klimova and Ponomarenko. In their case, it's based on a connection off the ice as well, but having something in real life and being able to project it as performers will not always coincide. There's a certain ability to radiate emotion that must be present.

Shen and Zhao are indeed a miraculous example of a longterm relationship that eventually produced chemistry. Something almost unfathomable happened in that year between the 2002 Olympics, where they were known merely for their tricks but stood in the shade of the two winning pairs in terms of artistry, and that stunning performance in 2003 Worlds. They became truly astonishing performers, not just athletes. But you're right: they did it partly by building on their long, long partnership.

 

[gkelly]

What about, say, Wilson & McCall or Bourne & Kraatz? Do you feel they had good connection with each other? Or was connection with the music and the audience enough?