Europeans-hopes dreams and reality

[FSGMT]

And her skating skills are completely normal.

This is the problem: Sotnikova, Caro and Kiira have "extraordinary" ss, Liza has "normal" ss: "ordinary" skating is not enough if you want to become European champion! But I agree that she sould receive higher marks for PE and IN, especially in the SP!

 

[DianaSelene]

This is the problem: Sotnikova, Caro and Kiira have "extraordinary" ss, Liza has "normal" ss: "ordinary" skating is not enough if you want to become European champion! But I agree that she sould receive higher marks for PE and IN, especially in the SP!

But ss is only compenent. That is my whole point. Fine, give her a few tenths lower is ss but everything else is "extraordinary" except for ch and should be given a few tenths higher than maybe Sotnikova.

This is how I rate her:

Extraordinary: in, pe, tr
Normal: ss
Needs improvement: ch

But that is not how the judges rate her against others.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

DianaSelene, I'm not disagreeing that Liza should be getting higher marks in the artistic department. Her PCS at international competitions really have been too low. But that doesn't change that her SS are just mediocre. I've seen both her programms more than once and her SS look better than last year - but they're still nothing more than average. Why do you think she's fast? Have you seen her live...? She has a generally powerful way of moving, but that's more her arms or her expression then her feet.
The thing is, for me, Liza is one of those skaters who's marks should be varying quite much. The difference between her SS and IN & PE is pretty hugh for me. But we never see this kind of differences in the PCS anyway. That's a generally annoying thing...

 

[DianaSelene]

DianaSelene, I'm not disagreeing that Liza should be getting higher marks in the artistic department. Her PCS at international competitions really have been too low. But that doesn't change that her SS are just mediocre. I've seen both her programms more than once and her SS look better than last year - but they're still nothing more than average. Why do you think she's fast? Have you seen her live...? She has a generally powerful way of moving, but that's more her arms or her expression then her feet.
The thing is, for me, Liza is one of those skaters who's marks should be varying quite much. The difference between her SS and IN & PE is pretty hugh for me. But we never see this kind of differences in the PCS anyway. That's a generally annoying thing...

I have not seen her live. Seeing her on tv, she seemed really quick to me and not just her arms. Have you seen her live because that might explain our different perceptions? I know there are differences in tv vs. live but her ss and speed look absolutely good to me.

 

[FSGMT]

But ss is only compenent. That is my whole point. Fine, give her a few tenths lower is ss but everything else is "extraordinary" except for ch and should be given a few tenths higher than maybe Sotnikova.

This is how I rate her:

Extraordinary: in, pe, tr
Normal: ss
Needs improvement: ch

But that is not how the judges rate her against others.

I agree, but I don't really think that she needs improvements in her choreographies, I like them, a bit frantic maybe, but I would put them in the "normal" category...

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I have not seen her live. Seeing her on tv, she seemed really quick to me and not just her arms. Have you seen her live because that might explain our different perceptions? I know there are differences in tv vs. live but her ss and speed look absolutely good to me.

No, sadly I didn't either. I'm usually watching fancam videos to get a better idea of the speed a skater has - I'm not sure if it was last years nationals, or the YOG, but I saw some videos of her filmed from one position, capturing the whole ring. The difference between her and Adelina was very obvious I think...
And when I say her SS are average I don't want to say they're bad, but really just that, average. Better than some of the ladies, but not as good as others. In response to what FSGMT said, I just think working on her SS and speed would be the easiest way to boost her PCS. She already did if you compare her to last year, and I'm sure she'll continue to improve. But for now I think she'll be behind Caro & Co. in PCS and I can see why (I'm a huge Adelina fan, so I can't really agree that Liza is a better performer in gerenal either. I think they're pretty much equal in that regard ).

 

[blue_idealist]

I hope Konstantin Menshov is there.

 

[FSGMT]

I hope Konstantin Menshov is there.

 

[russell30]

I would love menshov there too, but he is first alternate.

The team are Plushy, Voronov and Kovtun. Kovtun was favoured ahead of Menshov.

menshov though could make the world team, but he will probably have to do a Russian test skate before hand. I hope he gets the nod for worlds.

 

[senatormls]

I'll have many opportunities to watch live on Eurosport and SVT. I'd love to see Javi on the podium. What I really like to see is a lady to score over 180 points from Europe! The Russian babies are the only hopes. Keep an eye on Vanessa Marchei from Italy. I saw her yesterday live from an exhibition gala in Oberstdorf, Germany. She's become a lean, mean skating machine. Her first performance in a stunning gold dress was fantastic! And energy to perform a flawless triple Lutz! Don't expect much from Sarah Hecken from Germany. For dance, France and Italy till tops!

 

[npavel]

I'll have many opportunities to watch live on Eurosport and SVT. I'd love to see Javi on the podium. What I really like to see is a lady to score over 180 points from Europe! The Russian babies are the only hopes. Keep an eye on Vanessa Marchei from Italy. I saw her yesterday live from an exhibition gala in Oberstdorf, Germany. She's become a lean, mean skating machine. Her first performance in a stunning gold dress was fantastic! And energy to perform a flawless triple Lutz! Don't expect much from Sarah Hecken from Germany. For dance, France and Italy till tops!

Valentina Marchei has really improved this year.
Carolina Kostner has skated over 180 points more than onces.

 

[Icey]

Are you kidding? Plu won Europeans 7 times, and the current rivals are not even near: Joubert with 3 titiles, others are even less.

Ulrich Salchow won the title 9 times. Karl Schafer 8 times. Irina Slutskya 7 times.

 

[seniorita]

Salchow and Schafer :current rivals?

 

[LRK]

Salchow and Schafer :current rivals?

The conversation started when I asked what the record was.

 

[blue_idealist]

I would love menshov there too, but he is first alternate.

The team are Plushy, Voronov and Kovtun. Kovtun was favoured ahead of Menshov.

menshov though could make the world team, but he will probably have to do a Russian test skate before hand. I hope he gets the nod for worlds.

I thought that decision might be overturned (Menshov as first alternate)?

 

[senatormls]

First of all I wanna see high level of competition in each discipline.
My heart is with Kiira this year, too. But I also wanna see Carolina is doing well (tight competition with Kiira) and Leonova finally reaches a medal at Euros. Other than these, I wish the experienced girls show their best (Gedevanishvili, Helgesson, Glebova and McCorkell) and the Russian babies (probably Tuk and Sot but maybe Koro) don't disappoint us.

I agree 100%! These European athletes must compete at Worlds afterwards.

 

[snowflake]

I hope that a Helgesson sister(or for that matter both ) medals. And/or that they earn three spots for Sweden at next Euro's. I so wish another hard working lady from Sweden to experience a senior international competition :thumbsup:

 

[plushyfan]

This is the problem: Sotnikova, Caro and Kiira have "extraordinary" ss, Liza has "normal" ss: "ordinary" skating is not enough if you want to become European champion! But I agree that she sould receive higher marks for PE and IN, especially in the SP!

Maybe Kiira has "extraordinary" ss, but he can't jump, and always overscored like Lepistö or Carolina. The girls forgot to jump under the COP. Lepistö's jumps also were weak, and I like far better Carolina when she was younger and presented hard jumps. In Europe the last champions where shamefully weak jumper. I hope Liza will show, what is the FS as a sport.

 

[FSGMT]

Maybe Kiira has "extraordinary" ss, but he can't jump, and always overscored like Lepistö or Carolina. The girls forgot to jump under the COP. Lepistö's jumps also were weak, and I like far better Carolina when she was younger and presented hard jumps. In Europe the last champions where shamefully weak jumper. I hope Liza will show, what is the FS as a sport.

Yes, Caro and Kiira last year were weak jumpers (in 2012 in the FS Caro landed "just" 5 triples and no lutz to win the Gold, Kiira only one clean triple, a salchow, to win the Silver), but this year they're both planning 7 triples including the lutz in the FS and a 3-3 in the SP (even if an easy one), so I wouldn't say that they "can't jump"...

 

[russell30]

Maybe Kiira has "extraordinary" ss, but he can't jump, and always overscored like Lepistö or Carolina. The girls forgot to jump under the COP. Lepistö's jumps also were weak, and I like far better Carolina when she was younger and presented hard jumps. In Europe the last champions where shamefully weak jumper. I hope Liza will show, what is the FS as a sport.

Skating is NOT just about jumps, there is a technical and ARTISTIC side, You do not have to have the full repertoire of technique in order to succeed under the COP if your PCS are very good, Lepisto, Korpi and Kostner are very good in this area and should be REWARDED as such.


I do not like seeing someone go from one jump to the next without choreographic content, good use of the music and artistry.