Best Ladies jumper(s) | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Best Ladies jumper(s)

FSGMT said:
Actually, that's why, in the opening post of this thread, I wrote "What do you think?" and not "Which are the best Ladies jumpers?", since this is a discussion, and we can't pretend to be right in everything we say: it's just our perspective!
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I agree. My work involves a lot of statistical analysis and modeling, so I like to be precise, especially when you try to draw conclusions.

Whenever make summary or judgment without stating 'it's my personal preference', you have to provide evidence, use statistics to support your ideas, and show correlation to the conclusions you make. That's what I will call good argument.
 
christinaskater said:
1. Midori Ito
2. Yu-Na Kim
3. Miki Ando
4. Mao Asada
5. Gracie Gold
6. Irina Slutskaya
7. Tonya Harding
8. Carolina Kostner
9. Michelle Kwan - beautiful landing positions and consistency!
10. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
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Thank you so much for finding a way to get Michelle on the list! (I'm always happy when she's on any list.)

I would squeeze Shizuka in there somewhere, though I know that several people here have pointed out that she underrotated sometimes. For me what is impressive about her triple-triples is their longevity. She maintained them way past her competitive career and also did quite a few different kinds.

Slutskaya had beautiful spring on her jumps. I seem to remember that another skater with that quality was Viktoria Volchkova (which I hope I spelled correctly), but that she was not consistent. Does anyone have any thoughts about her?
 
Talking about American ladies always drag out the best characters. LOL.

I also like when someone can't win the argument, he/she has to give in and make sarcasm instead which totally shows how weak his/her argument is. How typical it is! Love it!
 
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Olympia said:
Thank you so much for finding a way to get Michelle on the list! (I'm always happy when she's on any list.)

I would squeeze Shizuka in there somewhere, though I know that several people here have pointed out that she underrotated sometimes. For me what is impressive about her triple-triples is their longevity. She maintained them way past her competitive career and also did quite a few different kinds.

Slutskaya had beautiful spring on her jumps. I seem to remember that another skater with that quality was Viktoria Volchkova (which I hope I spelled correctly), but that she was not consistent. Does anyone have any thoughts about her?
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I can't believe I forgot Shizuka! She is one of the best ever! Incredible jumps, edges, exquisite spins/positions and musicality.
 
prettykeys said:
Well, uh, height is a factor in considering the quality of a jump. So maybe some people like Gold's 3-3's better for their height.

Others seem to prefer YuNa's proven track record of consistency.

There's nothing wrong with people having different preferences in what they look for in jumps.
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McIce said:
Obviously, ice coverage, speed, height, landing position, take-off position, rotations are all important. You can't say one's jumps are better, simply because of one factor.
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Disclaimer: Nationals scores may be subjected to inflation, blah blah blah; yes, I did have a lot of time on my hands.

Comparing 2A+3T: - Yuna

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: Hard to tell, but I would say Yuna.
    • speed: About the same
    • height: Probably Gracie
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems stiffer, but has a higher free leg. Yuna's landing is gentler but her free leg is down.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie seems to rotate and complete her jumps faster.

Comparing 3Lz+3T: - Yuna

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: Probably Yuna.
    • speed: Yuna
    • height: Gracie
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems stiffer, but has a higher free leg. Yuna's landing is gentler but her free leg is down.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie seems to rotate and complete her jumps faster.

In conclusion, I would have to say that I wish there were better camera angles of Gracie's jumps (as only time + the duration of her skating career will give us) and that I prefer Yuna's jumps over Gracie's because they are more aesthetically pleasing to me.

And that Midori Ito pretty much beats them both in speed and height and probably ice coverage.
(Neither have crashed into a cameraman before.)
 
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aftertherain said:
Disclaimer: Nationals scores may be subjected to inflation, blah blah blah; yes, I did have a lot of time on my hands.

Comparing 2A+3T:

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: Hard to tell, but I would say Yuna.
    • speed: About the same
    • height: Probably Gracie
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems stiffer, but has a higher free leg. Yuna's landing is gentler but her free leg is down.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie seems to rotate and complete her jumps faster.

Comparing 3Lz+3T:

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: Probably Yuna.
    • speed: Yuna
    • height: Gracie
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems stiffer, but has a higher free leg. Yuna's landing is gentler but her free leg is down.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie seems to rotate and complete her jumps faster.

In conclusion, I would have to say that I wish there were better camera angles of Gracie's jumps (as only time + the duration of her skating career will give us) and that I prefer Yuna's jumps over Gracie's because they are more aesthetically pleasing to me.

And that Midori Ito pretty much beats them both in speed and height and probably ice coverage.
(Neither have crashed into a cameraman before.)
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Thanks so much, aftertherain. I really appreciate your work!

Regarding 2A+3T, Kim's attempts in 08-09 and 09-10 were much better. The speed into the combo was definitely faster. Coverage wise these two were about the same. Position wise, Kim was more flexible and gentle than Gracie's. However, rotations and height probably should go to Gracie. She had amazing height so that she could really rotate completely before she landed.

Regarding 3LZ+3T, Gracie's was better on rotations and height. All the other aspects Kim pretty much won over Gracie's.

We don't really need to talk about Midori. No one can touch her. Everytime I watched her 3A clips, my jaws dropped. Too incredible.
 
I just must say.... I loved Midori Ito! Seeing her mentioned just makes me happy. :)
 
Midori Ito and Tonya Harding are unmatched in history. Nobody ever had jumps that impressive. Ito in particular was just unreal.

Anna Rechnio had high jumps but she wasn't consistent and she flutzed, sadly.

Yu-Na's consistency and the quality of her jumps was quite impressive although she never had a strong loop.

FSGMT said:
2) Miki Ando, I think: 4S, 3Lz+3Lo, 3F+3Lo, 3T+3T, she had all the most difficult jumps and combos and the consistency of her 3Lz in the late years was amazing
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Are you kidding? She was nowhere near rotating the 4salchow when she got it credited and her "triple/triple" combos were always cheated as well (she was just lucky it was usually just a tiny bit less than 1/4). She would generally cheat jumps often.

FSGMT said:
3) Mao Asada: everything she has accomplished puts Mao here, I think: her 3As' consistency has been beautiful, but she has a lot of problems with "e" and UR jumps
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Again, :confused:. A notorious cheater, incorrect edges on take-offs and she never had 5 different consistent clean triples.

And her 3axels weren't really ever consistent. She's not even doing them any more. :confused:
 
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aftertherain said:
[...]

Comparing 3Lz+3T:

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: Probably Yuna.
    • speed: Yuna
    • height: Gracie
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems stiffer, but has a higher free leg. Yuna's landing is gentler but her free leg is down.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie seems to rotate and complete her jumps faster.

In conclusion, I would have to say that I wish there were better camera angles of Gracie's jumps (as only time + the duration of her skating career will give us) and that I prefer Yuna's jumps over Gracie's because they are more aesthetically pleasing to me.
[...]
Click to expand...

Great comparison! I actually like Yuna's 3Lz+3T from 2011 Worlds better than her Olympic FS. I agree it's more aesthetically pleasing than Gold's. Gold's 3Lz+3T is higher and rotates faster, but I think Yuna's combo flows better. (It seems Gracie's knees are stiffer?)
 
Krislite said:
Great comparison! I actually like Yuna's 3Lz+3T from 2011 Worlds better than her Olympic FS. I agree it's more aesthetically pleasing than Gold's. Gold's 3Lz+3T is higher and rotates faster, but I think Yuna's combo flows better. (It seems Gracie's knees are stiffer?)
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i think olympic season 3lz-3t better than 2011 worlds.. and now seems to be better(than 2011).
 
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Jumps -- Gracie Gold vs. Yuna Kim (cont.)

Disclaimer: Nationals scores may be subjected to inflation, blah blah blah.

Comparing 3F: - Yuna

  • As high as Gracie's 3F might be, she got an edge call for every single attempt at some kind of flip jump at both Skate Canada and Rostelecom Cup. The edge call seemed to miraculously disappear at Nationals along with Miss Ashley Wagner's earlier edge calls on her lutzes. :sarcasm: Must have been something in the water in Omaha.
  • Therefore, I decided this was pretty much hands-down Yuna.

Comparing 3S: - Gracie

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: Gracie
    • speed: About the same
    • height: Definitely Gracie
    • landing position: Yuna
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie (more speed)

Comparing 3Lo: - I would give the edge anyway to Gracie 'cause Yuna doesn't have one anymore.

  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: About the same.
    • speed: Yuna
    • height: Hard to tell, but I would say Gracie.
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems heavier because she gets so much height, but Yuna looks like she's bending her landing knee a little more than with her other jumps.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie


I now conclude this post by directing you to Kristi Yamaguchi's 3Lz+3T from 1992 Worlds. Lest you guys forget, she did have one. Pretty good jumper too, non?
http://gifsoup.com/view6/4508059/w92-kryama-3lz3t-o.gif
 
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aftertherain said:
Jumps -- Gracie Gold vs. Yuna Kim (cont.)

[...]
[/LIST]
  • Comparisons:
    • ice coverage: About the same.
    • speed: Yuna
    • height: Hard to tell, but I would say Gracie.
    • landing position: Gracie's landing seems heavier because she gets so much height, but Yuna looks like she's bending her landing knee a little more than with her other jumps.
    • take-off position: About the same?
    • rotations: Gracie
Click to expand...

I love Yuna's speed into and out of her 3Loop, too bad she never got it consistent.
 
Yu-Na is a far, miles better toe jumper than Gracie in terms of pure technique. Gracie lips and her toe pick technique is far from the best. Her landing is often stiff too.
 
Ziggy said:
Are you kidding? She was nowhere near rotating the 4salchow when she got it credited and her "triple/triple" combos were always cheated as well (she was just lucky it was usually just a tiny bit less than 1/4). She would generally cheat jumps often.
Again, :confused:. A notorious cheater, incorrect edges on take-offs and she never had 5 different consistent clean triples.

And her 3axels weren't really ever consistent. She's not even doing them any more. :confused:
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About, I like the fact that she could do a lot of different 3-3s and she was really consistent in her 3Lz, and I really liked her 3Lz+3Lo in 2007 and 2008. Yes, her 4S was not a clean jump, but she was a girl and, even if it was at least 1/4 UR, she actually landed it! And, there's something that I really like about her jumps, I actually think that (except the flip) she had a good techique...
I can't obviously say the same about Mao, but her 3A was actually consistent: she never made evident mistakes in it between Nationals and Worlds in 2010, for example; yes, she has edge problems, but the layout that she's been able to perform (2007-2008 season, for example) is something really extraordinary!
 
Ziggy said:
Midori Ito and Tonya Harding are unmatched in history. Nobody ever had jumps that impressive. Ito in particular was just unreal.

Anna Rechnio had high jumps but she wasn't consistent and she flutzed, sadly.

Yu-Na's consistency and the quality of her jumps was quite impressive although she never had a strong loop.



Are you kidding? She was nowhere near rotating the 4salchow when she got it credited and her "triple/triple" combos were always cheated as well (she was just lucky it was usually just a tiny bit less than 1/4). She would generally cheat jumps often.



Again, :confused:. A notorious cheater, incorrect edges on take-offs and she never had 5 different consistent clean triples.

And her 3axels weren't really ever consistent. She's not even doing them any more. :confused:
Click to expand...

Do you think that by repeating your nonsense you can change reality, you want five different clean triples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpZGFBDYc2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwgyJz-le1w

it seems that you either have missed most of her career or fake ignorance...

and whether you like it or not, Miki has landed a ratified Quad, it's in the Guinness world record too, so live with it!:laugh:
 
Ziggy said:
Midori Ito and Tonya Harding are unmatched in history. Nobody ever had jumps that impressive. Ito in particular was just unreal.
Click to expand...

Midori Ito was amazing, a force of nature, and undoubtedly the best ladies jumper of all time. According to Wikipedia, she achieved the following:
--First lady to land triple Axel
--First to land 7 triples in long program
--First to land triple/triple combination

As to Tonya, despite her career ending in such disgrace, she was also a very great jumper. Her triple Axel, when she had it, was the only one in the same class as Midori's.

Some years back, Kristi Yamaguchi commented on Midori and Tonya as jumpers. Kristi said Midori was incredible, but that Tonya's jumps were perhaps even better, just in terms of natural height and flow. Kristi obviously would have been observing their jumps as closely as anyone in those years.

Midori wins over Tonya hands down, though, as she was much more consistent over a longer time frame than Tonya. And Midori never lost her triple Axel, whereas Tonya did.

Personally, I also think Yuna Kim has to be considered probably the third greatest jumper of all time. Although she never got the triple Axel and doesn't perform the triple loop, the technical perfection and consistency of her triple Lutz/triple toe combination, and her other triples, puts her up there. Many ladies have done the 3Lutz/3toe combo, but none so often or so well as Yuna.

I think it's premature to compare Yuna Kim and Gracie Gold. One day, Gracie may be every bit as good as Yuna. There seems no limit to her potential. But she doesn't have the track record of Yuna yet, and that's important. It's one thing to land a perfect triple Lutz/triple toe at Nationals when you are in ninth place; quite another thing entirely to land it at the Olympics when you are in first place and carrying the hopes of a nation.
 
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