Skaters who can dominate both in IJS and 6.0.

[torren]

Are there skaters who do you think can dominate in both of systems?
That skaters have to have all of these - consistency, high quality jumps, high-difficulty jumps, artistry etc etc.

Here are another topics.
Who do you think are most friendly skater with IJS, and most weak or having the disadvantage under 6.0 ? Or who do you think are most friendly skater with 6.0 system, and most weak or having the disadvantage under IJS?

 

[Mathman]

Great thread! Welcome to GS, torren.

OK, I'll start with the obvious one: Yuna Kim at her current level would dominate under any system of scoring. :yes:

 

[emdee]

Patrick chan.
He has shown his mettle on IJS.

With his beautiful skating skills he could easily dominate 6.0

Others who could do equally well would be Jeffrey Buttle, Dai and Hanyu.

 

[TontoK]

Midori Ito. Her WC performances from nearly 25 years ago would be extremely competitive even now.

Speed, power, and incredible jump technique. Yeah... that would translate to CoP.

 

[TontoK]

Patrick chan.
He has shown his mettle on IJS.

With his beautiful skating skills he could easily dominate 6.0

Others who could do equally well would be Jeffrey Buttle, Dai and Hanyu.

I REALLY don't want to drag this thread into another Chan bash/defend festival, but under 6.0 Denis Ten would be World Champion right now.

6.0 favored consistency. To win, skaters had to do well in both Short and Long. Although, of course, everyone wanted to win every phase of the competition, you were still master of your fate if you could finish the SP in the Top 3.

 

[gmyers]

Plushenko won worlds under 6.0 and almost 2 Olympics under COP so its safe to say him who did! Arakawa did too! Worlds under one and Olympic under the other!

 

[christinaskater]

Akiko Suzuki
Yu-Na Kim
Mao Asada
Ashley Wagner
Miki Ando

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, but how many would have done well in the school figures as well?

 

[plushyfan]

Patrick chan.
He has shown his mettle on IJS.

With his beautiful skating skills he could easily dominate 6.0

Others who could do equally well would be Jeffrey Buttle, Dai and Hanyu.

The title is who can dominate....

Hm. I disagree with Chan and Buttle. Patrick can't skate clean programs, he has too many mistakes, and under the 6.0 the skaters made a little mistake and lost the comnpetition. The skating skills weren't so important.

Jeff had no quad.

.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yagudin is the first one that comes to mind. Ito would be an excellent IJS skater, too (same with Yamaguchi). Kwan would likely get high PCS which would make up for edge calls/URs that she would get under IJS (she was on the decline just after the system was introduced, so we'll never know). Kim is an obvious choice for dominating under 6.0.

It's a little unfair to say Chan couldn't skate clean programs when if he had to do 6.0-friendly programs with reduced difficulty between the elements, he'd probably have much cleaner programs (it's like saying Takahashi/Mao/Kostner wouldn't be a strong 6.0 skater because of their mistakes, even though they'd probably skate cleaner with less intricate programs). Not to mention there have been (compared to 6.0) very few *programs* skated under IJS that have had excellent technical difficulty (including quads) executed cleanly, but also with considerable difficulty and intricacy in choreography/spins/footwork. There's no male skater I can think of post-IJS who has consistently had both, and I can only think of select performances -- Daisuke's 2008 4CC, Ten's 2013 Worlds, Chan's 2011 Worlds, Javier's 2013 Euros, Plushenko's 2012 Euros, etc. (of course, Hanyu/Fernandez/Ten have more mileage, so we'll have to see if they can dominate). As for the ladies, Yu Na is the only skater that I would call a consistently solid IJS skater.

 

[emdee]

I REALLY don't want to drag this thread into another Chan bash/defend festival, but under 6.0 Denis Ten would be World Champion right now.

6.0 favored consistency. To win, skaters had to do well in both Short and Long. Although, of course, everyone wanted to win every phase of the competition, you were still master of your fate if you could finish the SP in the Top 3.

Yes but if it was 6.0 Patrick's program would have been much easier so he wouldnt have made the mistakes!

 

[emdee]

The title is who can dominate....

Hm. I disagree with Chan and Buttle. Patrick can't skate clean programs, he has too many mistakes, and under the 6.0 the skaters made a little mistake and lost the comnpetition. The skating skills weren't so important.

Jeff hadn't quad.

.

Exactly. That is why I nominated Chan. He has not been off the podium for 5 years.

If Jeff was in 6.0 maybe he would have got a consistent quad.

I think Yagudin should also be on my list.

 

[emdee]

Yes, but how many would have done well in the school figures as well?

We know for a fact that Chan was brought up on figures so I am sure he would have been fine there!

 

[Skater Boy]

Joannie Rochette, Ashley Wagner besides the obvious Yuna Kim would fair well. V and T would probably do better than Ssquared since the Germans rarely skate cleanly. Michelle Kwan would be fine under both - though some her simple moves wouldn't get the scores under IJS. V and M might gain a bit under 6.0 over D and W for their innovation. I am not sure how Ten would do; his quality may hold him back, not to mention lack of reputation until now LOL. We have seen jumpers not do well under 6.0 or held back ie. bonaly but there are many lesser skaters who had multiple triples or whatever and never really were a contender.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

V and T would probably do better than Ssquared since the Germans rarely skate cleanly.

To be fair, S/S at their peak have been quite clean, and it's not like V/T have had a boatload of clean international competitions themselves (SP+FS collectively).

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

OK, I'll start with the obvious one: Yuna Kim at her current level would dominate under any system of scoring. :yes:

I think she would need 7 triples during the Kwan era to win.

 

[Mathman]

I think that it is not of much use to speculate about what a skater might have done if he or she had lived at a different time and had competed under different rules. It seems sort of moot to try to guess whether Katarina Witt would have had a triple Axel if she had lived thirty years later. Plushenko is the only one who actually did dominate under both systems, from the 2002-03 season to 2005-06.

Chan is an interesting case. He is the master of the CoP. He knows under what rock each tenth of a point is hiding, and he knows how to gather enough of them that it doesn’t really matter about the mistakes. His Elegy exhibition program shows that he is capable of skating beautifully, and his Elegy short program shows that he can switch gears and grab up the CoP points instead.

The reason that I list Yuna Kim alone as a two-fer among active skaters is this. Her CoP programs are 6.0 programs. IMHO her performance of Les Miz at 2013 worlds, just as it was, would have beat any ladies’ LP ever, CoP or 6.0, including herself at 2010 Olympics. Looking at the protocols, she won almost entirely on GOE. Her total GOEs were an insurmountable 16.51, compared to 4.59 for Kostner and 3.66 for Asada.

This is just what 6.0 rewarded, too. Acceptable difficulty and every element done with awe-inspiring perfection. Couple that with satisfactory spins and moves in the field, along with good flow and grace throughout, and Bob’s your uncle. The only 6.0 weakness would be that she didn’t do a triple loop (6.0 was happiest when the skater did the full repertoire of jumps; CoP let’s you omit an element or two and make up the points elsewhere.)

A great 6.0 skater (like Kim) casts a spell of effortlessness, confidence, and mastery, of being totally in command of every detail of the performance. In contrast, CoP point-mongers are often helter-skelter, blowing one element but charging ahead like a bull in a China shop to the next undeterred.

 

[Mathman]

I think she would need 7 triples during the Kwan era to win.

I think she would have been competitive as is. Her huge triple-Lutz/triple toe and her double Axel combinations would have made up for the lack of a triple loop. But, yeah, she would need the triple loop to dominate.

 

[let`s talk]

Exactly. That is why I nominated Chan. He has not been off the podium for 5 years.

... and was boo-ed/laughed off twice in three of his golds. What great "domination"! Thanks for the laugh.

It's a little unfair to say Chan couldn't skate clean programs when if he had to do 6.0-friendly programs with reduced difficulty between the elements, he'd probably have much cleaner programs (it's like saying Takahashi/Mao/Kostner wouldn't be a strong 6.0 skater because of their mistakes, even though they'd probably skate cleaner with less intricate programs).

It doesn't correspond to the facts. Patrick Chan fell not on jumps only, not even near on jumps only. He spinned on his tummy just recently. He fell on footworks as well, and also while he was just skating, i.e. not on the elements at all. No skater has such a list of "achivements". So no need to drag other skates' names in this zamboni camp. It looks like a pathetic attemp to save Chan's repuation at someone else's expense. Won't work.

Plushenko is the only one who actually did dominate under both systems, from the 2002-03 season to 2005-06.

True. Yuna could have done it as well. And pretty much any of Soviet/Russian top Pair.

 

[jenaj]

I think she would need 7 triples during the Kwan era to win.

Not to win, but to dominate. Under 6.0, skaters who did the triple-triple were kind of expected to go for 7 triples. The number of triples done in the long program under 6.0 was a factor in the technical score--not necessarily an official one, but a factor nonetheless.