What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean

[let`s talk]

I think it was more the part about skaters' "lack of intelligence" that sent up a red flag.

Chraming! Plu and even Chan threads survived way worse name calling. And now you are telling me that Kim fandom is that weak-skinned? Poor Yuna. No surprises in fact.


Anything new from Yuna fans?

 

[MiRé]

Same ranting here. Don't follow your idol's lack of intelligence and have balls to actually present your evidence instead of pushing the report button. I am asking you again, you and all other Yuna fans- how would Caro or Mao could possibely close the gap of 21 points with Yuna if they go clean. Your addition and calculation?

"instead of pushing the report button?" See here is your problem. You assume things so much. First of all, I didn't even hit that report button. maybe some other person thought your post was extremely idiotic that it DESERVES a report button .
Your stupidity goes above and beyond

LP
3A 11.50
3F+3Lo 11.30
3Lz 7.8
FCCoSp4 4.5
2A+3Tx 9.54
3Sx 5.6
CcoSp4 4.71
3F+2Lo+2Lo 11
FCSp4 4.06
3Lox 6
Stsq4 5.40
chSq1 3.60

85.01

9.3
9.0
9.4
9.2
9.4


74.08

159.09

SP

3A 11.5
3F+2Lo 9.7
LSp4 3.63
FcSp4 3.9
3Lo 7
CCoSp4 4.5
StSq4 5.4

45.63

9
8.5
9
9
8.5

35.2

80.83


Total of WOOPING 239.92. Wait what? that can't be right? because according to you, Mao can't score higher than Yuna. BUT WAIT that score surpasses Yuna's PB as well as WR. So who's talking what? Have some balls? What? What, you think my scores were too generous? It's hypothetical situation so I can do whatever I Want right? I thought so

 

[prettykeys]

Yeah, I don't know what this circus is about because both Cherryy and I already showed how a clean Mao would be able to get Gold.

Anyway, I do suspect Carolina could put the 3F-3T back into her SP because it was puzzling that she put it into the LP and not the SP. This exercise is useful because it tells the skaters what they would need to gamble on in order to have a shot at Gold over the favourite at this point (YuNa). Playing it safe only gets you places if the leader makes mistakes...which while possible I wouldn't want my Olympic dream betting on YuNa stumbling.

BTW Melon that LP cannot be done because you are repeating more than two types of triples. Mao is likely to repeat 3Lo and 3F.

 

[kwanatic]

Basic math tells us that if Mao were to hit the majority of her jumps (minus that lutz b/c that's never going to be fixed) she would clearly hold the edge in TES. If she's clean that means she won't lose points on GOE which she often does b/c she gets dinged with URs at least once each program. Add those base value points back to the score and then add in the positive GOE she'd get (+1s and +2s and probably +3s for footwork) then that bumps her score up quite a bit.

If she were to skate cleanly I think her mid 8s PCS would probably go up to high 8s and low 9s. As I said earlier I doubt if she'd improve enough to beat a perfect Carolina or Yu-Na in terms of PCS but she'd close the gap by about 2 or 3 points. But those few points wouldn't matter much b/c she'd be so far ahead based on her TES.

No matter how good Yu-Na is, in this hypothetical of everyone going clean, she'd have a very hard time beating Mao b/c Mao would have the advantage of two 3As as well as both a 3-3 and 2-3 in the FS. Yu-Na would not be able to get over that hump. I don't think inflation would make any difference...it wouldn't be possible to inflate her score high enough to overcome that deficit.

 

[MiRé]

Yeah, I don't know what this circus is about because both Cherryy and I already showed how a clean Mao would be able to get Gold.

Anyway, I do suspect Carolina could put the 3F-3T back into her SP because it was puzzling that she put it into the LP and not the SP. This exercise is useful because it tells the skaters what they would need to gamble on in order to have a shot at Gold over the favourite at this point (YuNa). Playing it safe only gets you places if the leader makes mistakes...which while possible I wouldn't want my Olympic dream betting on YuNa stumbling.

BTW Melon that LP cannot be done because you are repeating more than two types of triples. Mao is likely to repeat 3Lo and 3F.

Oops i may have to change that wheb i get home. Im on mobile so
But what im trying to prove still exists because Mao would still top Yuna with her performance

 

[kwanatic]

Anyway, I do suspect Carolina could put the 3F-3T back into her SP because it was puzzling that she put it into the LP and not the SP. This exercise is useful because it tells the skaters what they would need to gamble on in order to have a shot at Gold over the favourite at this point (YuNa). Playing it safe only gets you places if the leader makes mistakes...which while possible I wouldn't want my Olympic dream betting on YuNa stumbling.

I agree. If she wants gold she will have to step it up. Like Jiggs said, Carolina is the only one out of the top 3 who is a bit of a mystery when it comes to her technical layout. She has all 5 triples which means her options are actually better than Yu-Na's when it comes to deciding a jump layout. However, the likelihood of Carolina completing that layout is the issue. She needs something that will stack points but won't be impossible to execute.

This is Carolina's last season so I say go for broke. Maybe she could try this:

3F-3T
3Lz
3S
2A-3T
3L
3S/L-2T-2L
2A

That seems ambitious but not overly ambitious IMO. That gives her all 5 triples with a repeat on the 3T and 3L or 3S. Point wise that could close the gap on Yu-Na. When it comes to those two they are very close in PCS. I could see a perfect Carolina matching if not surpassing the PCS Yu-Na receives. If the TES is very close and both are clean, it would be an extremely tight race.

 

[let`s talk]

"instead of pushing the report button?" See here is your problem. You assume things so much. First of all, I didn't even hit that report button. maybe some other person thought your post was extremely idiotic that it DESERVES a report button .
Your stupidity goes above and beyond

LP
3A 11.50

Who is talking. Then show me to what 'above and beyond' goes your stupidity since you automtically assume that all Yuna's rivals get +3 Goe on whatever they performed? Any explanations? None. Which is very typical for pathetic Yuna fans.

 

[russell30]

IF they all went clean, my opinion

Kostner
Kim
Asada

 

[MiRé]

Who is talking. Then show me to what 'above and beyond' goes your stupidity since you automtically assume that all Yuna's rivals get +3 Goe on whatever they performed? Any explanations? None. Which is very typical for pathetic Yuna fans.

Omg........... You yourself said this was hypothetical situation as I did too.... This is a proof of your "above an beyond" stupidity

 

[let`s talk]

Omg........... You yourself said this was hypothetical situation as I did too.... This is a proof of your "above an beyond" stupidity

I didn't. It was OP, and you followed. Does it make you and him/her "above and beyond" stupidity? Judging by your reply it does. Anything new?

 

[cheerio2]

No, I'm saying that a clean Yuna is that much better than everyone else.

If you say so, it must be true! Unless Yuna cures cancer while skating, it is not objective to claim that her program would beat another program with 10 points higher BV by 15 points. Not that you care about objectivity, but whatever.

 

[pangtongfan]

If you're saying Yuna wins by 15 points "no matter what" any other skater does, then you're saying she's held up. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid.

Well if people said that about Chan it would be considered acceptable, even by those who bemoan when he wins by many falls. It seems there is a double standard at play.

Regarding Mao I am wondering if she will attempt the same jump layout next year or she will tone it down a bit (still possibly the most difficult) to give her a higher shot at skating cleanly. Will be interesteing to see.

 

[venlac]

What's so complicated ?
Realistically, if all three clean, Asada wins. That's all. In 4cc, Asada has clean SP, and her score was 75. kim's clean SP score in past season was 72 in NRW, 69 in World. Asada's clean SP(4cc) PCS was same with kim's clean SP(World) PCS.
Although in SP, Yuna has been usually stronger than Mao.

Let's talk / Ven - Only two are claiming that if all go clean, Yuna would win. and Ven is claiming 'im Yuna fan' herself. I think both two are Mao - fanatic. lol

 

[cheerio2]

Well if people said that about Chan it would be considered acceptable, even by those who bemoan when he wins by many falls. It seems there is a double standard at play.

Who has said Chan would win (and should win) by 15 points even if someone skates a program with a significantly higher BV?

 

[vera01]

No. I mean that based on her grossly inflated score at WC-2013 she would have still won even if Caro and Mao skated clean there. That is shamefully wrong.

Then, what score did Yuna actually deserve at Worlds? Around 190-close to Kanako and much lower than Caro or Mao's? You're making it seem as if Yuna didn't even deserve her gold.

And no, Yuna would not have won against clean Caro or Mao, unless you didn't see what kind of treatment Yuna received from judges in SP. Yuna was only 3 points ahead of Caro with a fall and less difficult layout. Judges made sure in SP that they would penalize Yuna if she made a mistake in FS.

 

[venlac]

Then, what score did Yuna actually deserve at Worlds? Around 190-close to Kanako and much lower than Caro or Mao's? You're making it seem as if Yuna didn't even deserve her gold.

And no, Yuna would not have won against clean Caro or Mao, unless you didn't see what kind of treatment Yuna received from judges in SP. Yuna was only 3 points ahead of Caro with a fall and less difficult layout. Judges made sure in SP that they would penalize Yuna had she made a mistake in FS.

I think clean Yuna would lost to Clean Mao, but Clean Yuna should win clean Caro.

 

[kwanatic]

I think clean Yuna would lost to Clean Mao, but Clean Yuna should win clean Caro.

I think it would be a very close race b/w Yu-Na and Carolina if both are clean. If Carolina had hit all of her jumps at worlds this year, I think she may have beaten Yu-Na judging from the way she was scored in the SP. If Carolina had been clean she would have beaten Yu-Na in the SP. She scored 66 with a fall; so had she been clean, she'd have cleared 70 points. If she'd followed that up with a clean skate of her Bolero, especially the way she performed it, I'm sure her PCS and GOE would have been comparable to Yu-Na and it would come down to one or two points as to who came out on top.

I'm not a delusional skating fan BTW. I honestly feel that if Carolina ups her tech content and can deliver somewhat consistently, she'd challenge Yu-Na for gold every time.

 

[venlac]

I think it would be a very close race b/w Yu-Na and Carolina if both are clean. If Carolina had hit all of her jumps at worlds this year, I think she may have beaten Yu-Na judging from the way she was scored in the SP. If Carolina had been clean she would have beaten Yu-Na in the SP. She scored 66 with a fall; so had she been clean, she'd have cleared 70 points. If she'd followed that up with a clean skate of her Bolero, especially the way she performed it, I'm sure her PCS and GOE would have been comparable to Yu-Na and it would come down to one or two points as to who came out on top.

but do you think really she should be given similar GOE with Yuna on jumps? In 2008 World, when they have similar competitive... judges did. but I don't think that was fair.

I'm not a delusional skating fan BTW. I honestly feel that if Carolina ups her tech content and can deliver somewhat consistently, she'd challenge Yu-Na for gold every time.

I agree to some in this part. If she has higher bv than Yuna

 

[kwanatic]

but do you think really she should be given similar GOE with Yuna on jumps?

Yes. Carolina's jumps are technically clean (ie. correct edge take offs). Her jumps aren't as high as Yu-Na's but they get decent height, cover a ton of ice, are approached with good speed, have tight and clean air position, are landed with lots of speed and a fast, clean and solid riding edge, plus her landing checks are nicely extended and she often holds her edge.

Yes. I really think Carolina's jumps deserve similar GOE as Yu-Na's jumps.

 

[vera01]

Yes. Carolina's jumps are technically clean (ie. correct edge take offs). Her jumps aren't as high as Yu-Na's but they get decent height, cover a ton of ice, are approached with good speed, have tight and clean air position, are landed with lots of speed and a fast, clean and solid riding edge, plus her landing checks are nicely extended and she often holds her edge.

Yes. I really think Carolina's jumps deserve similar GOE as Yu-Na's jumps.

I agree. I think Carolina's jumps should be valued like Yuna's. At least she doesn't have technical problems(edge calls) when many other skaters do.

If Caro's jumps are behind Yuna's for a reason or two, it's because she's not able to add 3T(or 3Lo) consistently to her 3T/3Lz/3F. Otherwise, her jumps are one of the best we see today, along with Yuna's and Gracie's.