Men's Short Program: 2013 NHK Trophy

[wordsworthgirl]

Skating skills, as far as the PCS category goes, isn't about posture, line, extension and grace. That's reflected more in the other PCS categories.

Here's a handy thread where this is discussed: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?32258-What-s-the-skating-skill

Stealing what mskater93 pasted from the rulebook:



Patrick Chan obviously has the biggest edge in this category, however Kozuka and Oda are no slouches. And the judges aren't determining "how Oda looks" when judging how he skates.

Hi Mrs. P! See my post above for my thoughts on how Adam and Oda compare re skating skills. I still think Adam comes out on top. and I really like Oda.

 

[Mrs. P]

Hi Mrs. P! See my post above for my thoughts on how Adam and Oda compare re skating skills. I still think Adam comes out on top. and I really like Oda.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Adam has a lot of great qualities, but I wouldn't even give Adam the "best skating skills" title among the U.S. men.

In fact that title should go to... Jean-Luc Baker Yes, he's an ice dancer, but that man's skating skills are awesome, even more than some of the senior ice dance men! :yes:

As far as among the U.S. men, I'd give the edge to Ross Miner and Jeremy Abbott.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Adam has a lot of great qualities, but I wouldn't even give Adam the "best skating skills" title among the U.S. men.

In fact that title should go to... Jean-Luc Baker Yes, he's an ice dancer, but that man's skating skills are awesome, even more than some of the senior ice dance men! :yes:

As far as among the U.S. men, I'd give the edge to Ross Miner and Jeremy Abbott.

Oh, Mrs. P, I agree with you!- Jeremy Abbott has the best skating skills of the US men. Absolutely. Adam is second in my opinion. I don't know Jean-Luc Baker- will have to check out videos! Both Jeremy and Adam are superior to Oda in skating skills MOST of the time- last night, Adam was a little off.

 

[EricRohmer]

Gotta disagree on Oda. Oda's skating skills are far superior to Rippon's.

Agree.
I have always thought Rippon's weakness is 3A + SS(which shows much improvement this season).

 

[FlattFan]

I just ignore people who say things like 2 is greater than 2000.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Agree.
I have always thought Rippon's weakness is 3A + SS(which shows much improvement this season).

His triple axel in the short looked great! I'm so encouraged by his improvement under Rafael.

 

[Mathman]

This would be an interesting experiment. Just show the skater's feet. Who would come out on top, leaving out elegant carriage, balletic arms, soulful facial expressions, etc. Chan, then Takahashi, right? Then who?

 

[wordsworthgirl]

This would be an interesting experiment. Just show the skater's feet. Who would come out on top, leaving out elegant carriage, balletic arms, soulful facial expressions, etc. Chan, then Takahashi, right? Then who?

I agree with Mrs. P that Jeremy Abbott would be up near the top. Perhaps also Lysacek? He doesn't have the balletic arms or soulful facial expressions or elegant carriage but it was his lightning fast feet with their continual changes of edge that helped him score so high.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Kozuka.

 

[Axel99]

Takahashi's 4t looked clean and fully rotated. Oda’s 4t looked fine to me too.
Fernandez’s 4s looked shaky. I am surprised he was not taken <.

 

[Mrs. P]

Kozuka.

Yep, I agree.

Kozuka's skating skills are amazing to see live. The amount of speed and glide is so effortless!

 

[Art&Sport]

This would be an interesting experiment. Just show the skater's feet. Who would come out on top, leaving out elegant carriage, balletic arms, soulful facial expressions, etc. Chan, then Takahashi, right? Then who?

But, but ... then you are in essence talking about a school figures competition. Isn't that ironic in this era of CoP frenetic numbers-grabbing and quad for quad's sake!

Agree with you wordsworthgirl on most of your comments here. I will also concede with some others that Oda has deeper edges than Adam and thus greater ice coverage. However Adam has improved his ice coverage and he definitely has better extension, musicality, artistry, interpretation, and graceful use of his arms and full body than Nobunari. And please, Mura and Voronov are great jumpers and wonderful competitors but are not on a par with Adam re PCS.

 

[samson]

Well I just watched Adam and Oda back to back for the the first time. Myself I'm not sure what to say about the quads. but I think the judges got the PCS right with those two at least.

The more I watch and learn about skating Oda definitely seems to have the stronger skating skills, and while on most nights I would prefer Adam's style to Oda, Adam just looked a little tight to me and it showed in his spins and the overall presentation felt guarded until the footwork. And the bobble on the footwork was definitely disruptive for me.

Oda really flowed across at that ice and just looked like he was having fun. For me, PCS wise I would have actually had him second over Javi and maybe a shade closer to Dai. Until he got the call on the quad I thought for sure he was going to get close to 90 with that.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Well I just watched Adam and Oda back to back for the the first time. Myself I'm not sure what to say about the quads. but I think the judges got the PCS right with those two at least.

The more I watch and learn about skating Oda definitely seems to have the stronger skating skills, and while on most nights I would prefer Adam's style to Oda, Adam just looked a little tight to me and it showed in his spins and the overall presentation felt guarded until the footwork. And the bobble on the footwork was definitely disruptive for me.

Oda really flowed across at that ice and just looked like he was having fun. For me, PCS wise I would have actually had him second over Javi and maybe a shade closer to Dai. Until he got the call on the quad I thought for sure he was going to get close to 90 with that.

Samson, I agree with you re last night. Exactly as I said- Adam was tight and tense and guarded. Yes. It was the best I've ever seen Oda.
I was speaking more generally about the two skaters.

 

[samson]

^ Reading your older post about Adam's typical SS verse Oda's I see what you're saying. Oda has beautiful knee bend and nice deep edges, but now that I think about it, he does do an awful lot of two foot skating. Adam seems to usually have a little more variety and direction. It might mean natural flow is harder for him to achieve but perhaps the content of the skating is a little higher?

I guess that's when you start to get into a territory of preference and what a judge or viewer might hold more preference to when judging skating skills.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

^ Reading your older post about Adam's typical SS verse Oda's I see what you're saying. Oda has beautiful knee bend and nice deep edges, but now that I think about it, he does do an awful lot of two foot skating. Adam seems to usually have a little more variety and direction. It might mean natural flow is harder for him to achieve but perhaps the content of the skating is a little higher?

I guess that's when you start to get into a territory of preference and what a judge or viewer might hold more preference to when judging skating skills.

Thanks for this thoughtful post. You put it perfectly. Oda's knee bend is amazing and his edges deep, but on the other criteria I do think Adam comes out ahead.

 

[Mathman]

But, but ... then you are in essence talking about a school figures competition. Isn't that ironic in this era of CoP frenetic numbers-grabbing and quad for quad's sake!

Actually, I think that might have been on the ISU's mind when they came up with the criteria for the Skating Skills component. Skaters had sort of forgotten that figure skating was about blade to ice skills.

Agree with you wordsworthgirl on most of your comments here. I will also concede with some others that Oda has deeper edges than Adam and thus greater ice coverage. However Adam has improved his ice coverage and he definitely has better extension, musicality, artistry, interpretation, and graceful use of his arms and full body than Nobunari. And please, Mura and Voronov are great jumpers and wonderful competitors but are not on a par with Adam re PCS.

Yes, but the question was about Skating Skills, right? Not Interpretation, Choreography and Composition, and Performance and Execution, where things like extension, musicality, artistry, interpretation, and graceful use of his arms and full body are judged.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Actually, I think that might have been on the ISU's mind when they came up with the criteria for the Skating Skills component. Skaters had sort of forgotten that figure skating was about blade to ice skills.



Yes, but the question was about Skating Skills, right? Not Interpretation, Choreography and Composition, and Performance and Execution, where things like extension, musicality, artistry, interpretation, and graceful use of his arms and full body are judged.

The original commenter was actually talking about skating skills AND interpretation/grace/artistry and I agreed with her on both.

 

[Mathman]

OK, how about this, then. Oda is cute as the dickens….Oh wait, so is Adam…Nevermind...

 

[Mrs. P]

I think this is a fruitless discussion. We all have our differences.

One thing is for sure, Oda is more decorated! 13 GP medals, including four gold medals. So sad he hasn't lived up to his potential at Olympics or Worlds.