Jason Brown | Page 19 | Golden Skate

Jason Brown

gmyers said:
Nothing in cop makes quads necessary. You can get near 90 Tes without it. It's not a necessary move.
Click to expand...

You're basing this off ONE national competition where scores tend to be inflated. Do you want me to outline all the 85+ scores internationally during the last quad? Okay, I'll play.

Looking at GPs and ISU Championships:

Yuzuru Hanyu 102.03 (193.41), GPF 2013, 4S (-3.00 GOE), 4T (2.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan 100.25 (196.75), TEB 2013, 4T-3T (2.57 GOE), 4T (1.43 GOE)
Takahiko Kozuka 98.53 (180.79), Worlds 2011, 4T (2.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan, 97.13 (192.61), GPF 2013 4T-2T (1.57 GOE), 4T (2.43 GOE)
Javier Fernandez 96.65 (186.07), European Championships 2013 4T (2.57 GOE), 4S-3T (-0.86 GOE), 4S (2.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan 96.44 (187.96), Worlds 2011, 4T (1.29), 4T-3T (2.43)
Javier Fernandez 95.93 (178.43), GPF 2012, 4T (0.86 GOE), 4S-3T (0.71 GOE), 4S (1.86 GOE)
Patrick Chan 95.83 (185.99), 4CC 2012, 4T-3T (2.14), 4T (1.86)
Kevin Reynolds, 92.21 (172.21), 4CC 2013, 4S (+1 GOE), 4T-3T (.86 GOE), 4T (0.43 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 91.99 (173.99), Worlds 2012 4T (2.43 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 91.96 (177.12), GPF 2012, 4T (2.71 GOE)
Noburnari Oda, 91.58 (175.02), GPF 2013 4T (-3.00 GOE), 4T-3T (1.86 GOE)
Tatsuki Machida, 90.85 (174.20), Skate America 2013 4T (1.86 GOE) 4T-SEQ (0.14)
Max Aaron, 90.47 (162.45), Skater America 2013 4T (-3.00), 4S (-2.00), S-2T (0 GOE)
Takahiko Kozuka, 89.63 (170.43), Trophee Eric Bompard 2010, 4T w/ -GOE
Max Aaron, 89.63 (162.19), 4CC 2013, 4S+3T (1.14 GOE), 4S (1.43 GOE)
Tatsuki Machida, 89.60 (172.10), COR 2013, 4T (-0.86 GOE), 4T-2T (0.57 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 89.05 (169.05), Worlds 2013, 4T (0.57), 4S (-1.86)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 88.93 (165.71), NHK Trophy 2012, 4T (1.57 GOE), 4S (-1.71 GOE)
Noburnari Oda 88.62 (170.46) NHK Trophy 2013, 4T (1.43 GOE)
Patrick Chan, 88.56 (176.70) Worlds 2012, 4T (2.43 GOE), 4T-3T (2.29 GOE)
Javier Fernandez 88.19 (175.55) European Championships, 4T (-0.43 GOE), 4S-3T< (-0.43 GOE), 4S (-2.00 GOE)
Daisuke Takahashi, 88.16 (173.94), Worlds 2012, 4T (0.14 GOE)
Tatsuki Machida, 88.07 (170.37), GPF 2013, 4T (1.57), 4T-2T (1.14)
Daisuke Takahashi, 87.89 (177.11), GPF 2012, 4T (-2.71 GOE), 4T-3T<(0 GOE)
Denis Ten, 87.76 (174.92), Worlds 2013, 4T (2.29 GOE)
Evgeni Plushenko 87.68 (178.52), European Championships 2012, 4T (1.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan 87.59 (173.67), GPF 2011, 4T (-1.86 GOE), 4T-2T (-2.49 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu 87.28 (168.22), TEB 2013, 4T (-3.00 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu 87.21 (166.49), GPF 2011, 4T (1.14 GOE)
Konstantin Menshov 87.18 (165.12), European Championship 2014 4T-3T (1.29), 4T (1.57)
Daisuke Takahashi 87.05 (172.63), GPF 2011, 4T (-2.57 GOE)
Patrick Chan, 86.94 (174.16), GPF 2010, 4T (1.29 GOE)
Ross Miner, 86.74 (161.98), NHK Trophy 2012 4S (1.29 GOE)
Sergei Voronov 86.48 (167.04), European Championships 2013 4T (-0.14), 4T-2Lo (-1.00 GOE)
Javier Fernandez, 86.48 (165.62), Skate Canada 2011 4T (-0.71 GOE), 4S (+2.00 GOE)
Max Aaron, 85.86 (160.16) Worlds 2013 4S-2T (0.43 GOE)
Artur Gachniski, 85.66 (163.52), Worlds 2011 4T (1.71 GOE)
Nan Song, 85.45 (154.03), Cup of China 2011 4T+3T (+2.00 GOE), 4T (1.20 GOE)
Javier Fernandez, 85.15 (168.07) Skate Canada 2012 4S (1.71 GOE), 4T-2T (0.71 GOE)
Patrick Chan 85.14 (158.44), Trophee Eric Bompard 2011 4T (1.29 GOE), 4T-3T (1.43 GOE)


As you can see, no a single man has scored 85+ or higher in TES in these competitions without attempting at least one quad. If Jason manages to get on this 85+ squad without a quad, he will be the EXCEPTION, not the RULE.

Try doing research before going on one of your rants, okay?
 
noskates said:
And were you at TD Garden when he skated his LP? Were you there to see the reaction from the crowd? I was. And I tell you - it was magical. I've been to numerous competitions over the years - nationals and grand prixs and worlds, and there have been very few skates that have elicited that type of reaction.

... I like both men. I'm favorable to Jason because that's the kind of skating I like. I also think it's the type of skating the average television viewer would be appreciative of.

Do with that what you will.

eta: oh by the way - I don't feel entitled to anything other than my opinion. Which is about worth what yours is! Different strokes for different folks. I think Max is mad-talented and athletic. I just don't think jumps are the be-all and end-all of figure skating right now. I'm glad he's taking dance and winning whatever contest that was mentioned. I just didn't see it in his LP.

This isn't a Max versus Jason situation - it's what the judges are rewarding!
Click to expand...

Glad that you like both Max and Jason. I do too. My posts have never been about choosing between Max and Jason and supporting only one vs. the other.
And I never said that my opinion counted more than yours. Of course you are entitled to your preference for Jason. I think many others in this thread also prefer Jason. And everyone else in this thread (AFAIK) likes Jason (without necessarily preferring him).
Some of us are happy to appreciate all that is good regarding Max as well. (Although Jason's Riverdance FS has been a phenomenon on an unprecedented scale for skating as a whole, I will add that what turned me on to men's skating were Max's SP and FS at Omaha Nats, and I daresay that Max brought other new fans to the discipline at the time.)
What bothered me previously is that you have felt free in this thread to dissect Max's shortcomings at some length, but took umbrage that others (incl. others who have very positive feelings about Jason) have felt free to examine Jason's shortcomings. Whether or not I had the privilege of being in Boston (I did not) does not exempt you from fairness to others in this thread.

karne said:
I love both Max and Jason (and Joshua of course), so the Nationals result hurt my heart. They are all such different skaters. And I love them all for the things that make them different. I wish Max felt more free to be himself, rather than feeling forced to conform to some stupid USFSA-mould. Max isn't Jason and he never will be. And Jason isn't Max and never will be. The USFSA missed the marketing boat with Max last year; they went about it all wrong. Instead of showing off a handsome, charming, intelligent young man who happened to be a wonderful athlete, they tried to hammer the hockey thing beyond belief (doesn't work, guys), and focused the spotlight on his efforts to improve the second mark, rather than spotlighting what he already did well.

There is one way that Jason, Joshua, and Max are all alike, and it is the reason I love them so; they always look like they're enjoying themselves, and they always look like they have never forgotten that they were once children skating for the pure enjoyment of skating.
Click to expand...

:agree:
(Agree with everything except your comments about the marketing of Max. I think Max came across exceedingly well as a handsome, charming, intelligent guy -- also as a very talented and hard-working athlete and as someone who is happy and proud to be himself and to think for himself. The emphasis on improving his components originated with Max. And his goal of three quads in his FS received equal spotlight, I would say. Max's high level of success in hockey is something unique that sets him apart [in a good way, IMO] from other skaters, such as Jason. I never got tired of seeing Max light up at any chance to discuss hockey in a meaningful way -- and its role in his path to his high level of success in figure skating. [That said, yes, NBC is guilty of mantra-like superficial references not only to Max-who-played-hockey, but also Davis/White-who-have-been-partners-for seventeen years (or whatever the correct number is); Shnapir-who-is-six-feet-four; ... etc.]

Mrs. P said:
I don't get the "trying to conform" vibe from Max at all. I think he's taking responsibility for his skating and has a sincere desire to improve and grow in his skating.

FWIW, my husband liked Jason, Max and Josh! He liked Jason's performance and charisma, Max's power and Joshua's elegant skating. I came into Nationals being a major uber of Jason and I left still a Jason uber, but with a deep respect for Joshua and Max's skating as well.

And certainly Jason and Co. appreciate Joshua and Max's skating as well. A big reason Kori moved Jason to Colorado in the first place was the hope that he could train alongside Max!

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-highland-park-skater-senior-grand-prix-debut ...
Click to expand...

Mrs. P said:
You're basing this off ONE national competition where scores tend to be inflated. Do you want me to outline all the 85+ scores internationally during the last quad? Okay, I'll play.

Looking at GPs and ISU Championships: ...

As you can see, no a single man has scored 85+ or higher in TES in these competitions without attempting at least one quad. If Jason manages to get on this 85+ squad without a quad, he will be the EXCEPTION, not the RULE.

Try doing research before going on one of your rants, okay?
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your posts in this thread, Mrs. P. Appreciate your constructive criticism and open-mindedness.
 
Mrs. P said:
You're basing this off ONE national competition where scores tend to be inflated. Do you want me to outline all the 85+ scores internationally during the last quad? Okay, I'll play.

Looking at GPs and ISU Championships:

Yuzuru Hanyu 102.03 (193.41), GPF 2013, 4S (-3.00 GOE), 4T (2.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan 100.25 (196.75), TEB 2013, 4T-3T (2.57 GOE), 4T (1.43 GOE)
Takahiko Kozuka 98.53 (180.79), Worlds 2011, 4T (2.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan, 97.13 (192.61), GPF 2013 4T-2T (1.57 GOE), 4T (2.43 GOE)
Javier Fernandez 96.65 (186.07), European Championships 2013 4T (2.57 GOE), 4S-3T (-0.86 GOE), 4S (2.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan 96.44 (187.96), Worlds 2011, 4T (1.29), 4T-3T (2.43)
Javier Fernandez 95.93 (178.43), GPF 2012, 4T (0.86 GOE), 4S-3T (0.71 GOE), 4S (1.86 GOE)
Patrick Chan 95.83 (185.99), 4CC 2012, 4T-3T (2.14), 4T (1.86)
Kevin Reynolds, 92.21 (172.21), 4CC 2013, 4S (+1 GOE), 4T-3T (.86 GOE), 4T (0.43 G OE)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 91.99 (173.99), Worlds 2012 4T (2.43 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 91.96 (177.12), GPF 2012, 4T (2.71 GOE)
Noburnari Oda, 91.58 (175.02), GPF 2013 4T (-3.00 GOE), 4T-3T (1.86 GOE)
Tatsuki Machida, 90.85 (174.20), Skate America 2013 4T (1.86 GOE) 4T-SEQ (0.14)
Max Aaron, 90.47 (162.45), Skater America 2013 4T (-3.00), 4S (-2.00), S-2T (0 GOE)
Takahiko Kozuka, 89.63 (170.43), Trophee Eric Bompard 2010, 4T w/ -GOE
Max Aaron, 89.63 (162.19), 4CC 2013, 4S+3T (1.14 GOE), 4S (1.43 GOE)
Tatsuki Machida, 89.60 (172.10), COR 2013, 4T (-0.86 GOE), 4T-2T (0.57 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 89.05 (169.05), Worlds 2013, 4T (0.57), 4S (-1.86)
Yuzuru Hanyu, 88.93 (165.71), NHK Trophy 2012, 4T (1.57 GOE), 4S (-1.71 GOE)
Noburnari Oda 88.62 (170.46) NHK Trophy 2013, 4T (1.43 GOE)
Patrick Chan, 88.56 (176.70) Worlds 2012, 4T (2.43 GOE), 4T-3T (2.29 GOE)
Javier Fernandez 88.19 (175.55) European Championships, 4T (-0.43 GOE), 4S-3T< (-0.43 GOE), 4S (-2.00 GOE)
Daisuke Takahashi, 88.16 (173.94), Worlds 2012, 4T (0.14 GOE)
Tatsuki Machida, 88.07 (170.37), GPF 2013, 4T (1.57), 4T-2T (1.14)
Daisuke Takahashi, 87.89 (177.11), GPF 2012, 4T (-2.71 GOE), 4T-3T<(0 GOE)
Denis Ten, 87.76 (174.92), Worlds 2013, 4T (2.29 GOE)
Evgeni Plushenko 87.68 (178.52), European Championships 2012, 4T (1.29 GOE)
Patrick Chan 87.59 (173.67), GPF 2011, 4T (-1.86 GOE), 4T-2T (-2.49 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu 87.28 (168.22), TEB 2013, 4T (-3.00 GOE)
Yuzuru Hanyu 87.21 (166.49), GPF 2011, 4T (1.14 GOE)
Konstantin Menshov 87.18 (165.12), European Championship 2014 4T-3T (1.29), 4T (1.57)
Daisuke Takahashi 87.05 (172.63), GPF 2011, 4T (-2.57 GOE)
Patrick Chan, 86.94 (174.16), GPF 2010, 4T (1.29 GOE)
Ross Miner, 86.74 (161.98), NHK Trophy 2012 4S (1.29 GOE)
Sergei Voronov 86.48 (167.04), European Championships 2013 4T (-0.14), 4T-2Lo (-1.00 GOE)
Javier Fernandez, 86.48 (165.62), Skate Canada 2011 4T (-0.71 GOE), 4S (+2.00 GOE)
Max Aaron, 85.86 (160.16) Worlds 2013 4S-2T (0.43 GOE)
Artur Gachniski, 85.66 (163.52), Worlds 2011 4T (1.71 GOE)
Nan Song, 85.45 (154.03), Cup of China 2011 4T+3T (+2.00 GOE), 4T (1.20 GOE)
Javier Fernandez, 85.15 (168.07) Skate Canada 2012 4S (1.71 GOE), 4T-2T (0.71 GOE)
Patrick Chan 85.14 (158.44), Trophee Eric Bompard 2011 4T (1.29 GOE), 4T-3T (1.43 GOE)


As you can see, no a single man has scored 85+ or higher in TES in these competitions without attempting at least one quad. If Jason manages to get on this 85+ squad without a quad, he will be the EXCEPTION, not the RULE.

Try doing research before going on one of your rants, okay?
Click to expand...

It only takes one? Is brown a phenemon or not? And if one can do it it could become the norm. The math at us nationals reflects a possibility that could happen internationally. Brown got to 89 with one rotated triple axel. US nationals was inflated not just for Jason brown and in that environment Aaron got 93 Tes with 2 quads and 2 3a. The 89 brown got is absolutely possible. Goe at international events can be huge too. You are saying its totally impossible and will never happen. Just like brown going to Sochi. Just like 2010 Olympic champion not having a quad. Nothing in cop says brown can not win or medal. I am just not sure of why when everyone's in the same event he will be at a disadvantage because browns never not medaled or won events where people were one jump ahead of him.
 
gmyers said:
It only takes one? Is brown a phenemon or not? And if one can do it it could become the norm. The math at us nationals reflects a possibility that could happen internationally. Brown got to 89 with one rotated triple axel. US nationals was inflated not just for Jason brown and in that environment Aaron got 93 Tes with 2 quads and 2 3a. The 89 brown got is absolutely possible. Goe at international events can be huge too. You are saying its totally impossible and will never happen. Just like brown going to Sochi. Just like 2010 Olympic champion not having a quad. Nothing in cop says brown can not win or medal. I am just not sure of why when everyone's in the same event he will be at a disadvantage because browns never not medaled or won events where people were one jump ahead of him.
Click to expand...

One person does not make a trend, gmeyers. That's why I took an hour and pour over nearly four years of protocals (fun to look back).

I'm arguing that it is VERY unlikely that Jason will get 89+ at an international competition without a quad. The judges are going to be a lot more stingy with +GOE. He is unlikely to get 93+ PCS. Not impossible, but unlikely, especially when he's going to be on the same ice with Patrick, Yuzuru and other top skaters who have more speed, bigger jumps AND a quad.

If Jason gets 85+ and is included in the crew above it's because he is 1.) Consistent 2.) High spin/step levels +GOE 3.) His other jumps are sound.

I'm not sure why you are so insistent. It's almost like you want this to happen so you can lament IN ADVANCE how terrible the system is to those poor pitiful jumpers.
 
Mrs. P said:
One person does not make a trend, gmeyers. That's why I took an hour and pour over nearly four years of protocals (fun to look back).

I'm arguing that it is VERY unlikely that Jason will get 89+ at an international competition without a quad. The judges are going to be a lot more stingy with +GOE. He is unlikely to get 93+ PCS. Not impossible, but unlikely, especially when he's going to be on the same ice with Patrick, Yuzuru and other top skaters who have more speed, bigger jumps AND a quad.

If Jason gets 85+ and is included in the crew above it's because he is 1.) Consistent 2.) High spin/step levels +GOE 3.) His other jumps are sound.

I'm not sure why you are so insistent. It's almost like you want this to happen so you can lament IN ADVANCE how terrible the system is to those poor pitiful jumpers.
Click to expand...

I am definitely not saying one person makes a trend only that it takes one person or one performance to make every piece of conventional wisdom of what a competitor needs totally irrelevent! Like Brown has done his whole career! Cop really is an open system in which tes is totally almost competition specific so you can't say anyone needs anything.
 
gmyers said:
I am definitely not saying one person makes a trend only that it takes one person or one performance to make every piece of conventional wisdom of what a competitor needs totally irrelevent! Like Brown has done his whole career! Cop really is an open system in which tes is totally almost competition specific so you can't say anyone needs anything.
Click to expand...

Um, so what exactly do you think should happen?
 
Mrs. P said:
Aw, cool! I'm on the West Coast, so the show doesn't air for another three hours. Can't wait.
Click to expand...

Mrs. P (and everyone), you're going to love the Arsenio appearance. :popcorn:

I missed the top of the monologue when I think Arsenio first made mention of Jason.
But in the interview itself, in addition to Jason on stage with the host, we see a little bit of the Brown parents in studio, and A LOT of Kori in the audience. :) And Jason and Arsenio talk a lot about Kori.

BTW, Kori is adorable in this photo from the flight to LA.

And LOL, I see from @jasonbskates that Kori and he will show up on the Arsenio telecast again before the hour ends.

Idle thought: Jason really is quite a social media whiz. Don't think we have seen him in a ShibSibs video yet? But I'm sure that will change in Sochi.
 
golden411 said:
Mrs. P (and everyone), you're going to love the Arsenio appearance. :popcorn:

I missed the top of the monologue when I think Arsenio first made mention of Jason.
But in the interview itself, in addition to Jason on stage with the host, we see a little bit of the Brown parents in studio, and A LOT of Kori in the audience. :) And Jason and Arsenio talk a lot about Kori.

BTW, Kori is adorable in this photo from the flight to LA.

And LOL, I see from @jasonbskates that Kori and he will show up on the Arsenio telecast again before the hour ends.

Idle thought: Jason really is quite a social media whiz. Don't think we have seen him in a ShibSibs video yet? But I'm sure that will change in Sochi.
Click to expand...

He was in the ShibSibs video from Skate America: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9Wc0V-6MV4#t=02m38s
:)
 
gmyers said:
It only takes one? Is brown a phenemon or not? And if one can do it it could become the norm. The math at us nationals reflects a possibility that could happen internationally. Brown got to 89 with one rotated triple axel. US nationals was inflated not just for Jason brown and in that environment Aaron got 93 Tes with 2 quads and 2 3a. The 89 brown got is absolutely possible. Goe at international events can be huge too. You are saying its totally impossible and will never happen. Just like brown going to Sochi. Just like 2010 Olympic champion not having a quad. Nothing in cop says brown can not win or medal. I am just not sure of why when everyone's in the same event he will be at a disadvantage because browns never not medaled or won events where people were one jump ahead of him.
Click to expand...

Brown could only dream of a bronze much less a win. The Olympics will be held in Russia. The Russian crowd will not be impress by a program lacking a quad when there are skaters much better than Brown doing two or three quads even. And no I don't think he can energize the crowd. The Russians are a tough crowd to please. Finally after the controversy of quadless Evan what makes you think ISU are going to pull the same stunt on Plushenko's backyard.
 
Yay, Arsenio is coming on for me! :)

OMG I love it Jason AND Old School Hip Hop! YAAAAAYYY!

ETA: That was a fun interview! Arsenio is still funny. :) I thought it was cute when he had Jason's mom go back to the producer booth. And Kori looked so beautiful and put together! (As she usually is.)

And now CHUCK D. So awesome. Fight the power!

ETA 2: That was a great show! Chuck D was full of conviction (as he was back in the Public Enemy days). Fun to see Luther Campbell doing some great stuff post 2 Live Crew and Spinderella still looks AMAZING...and that performance of Rapper's Delight was so awesome. It looked liked Jason and Kori had so much fun dancing!

Here's the video of Jason's interview with Arsenio for those who missed it : http://www.arseniohall.com/video/in...unite_For_A_Heartwarming_Interview/index.html
 
Mrs. P said:
Um, so what exactly do you think should happen?
Click to expand...

I guess nothing can happen! It's an open system where no one can impose any kind of technical mandate that requires an element be done for a win. It's just open!

chairmanmao said:
Brown could only dream of a bronze much less a win. The Olympics will be held in Russia. The Russian crowd will not be impress by a program lacking a quad when there are skaters much better than Brown doing two or three quads even. And no I don't think he can energize the crowd. The Russians are a tough crowd to please. Finally after the controversy of quadless Evan what makes you think ISU are going to pull the same stunt on Plushenko's backyard.
Click to expand...

What you post is interesting but judges can really ignore crowds! Judges showed in Vancouver they don't care about quads. Or the Vancouver judges didn't care! The tech score is dictated by existing values decided beforehand. It's not even that much controlled by judges in many ways. Just goe and pcs. Brown always gets good goe and Pcs. It would take judges giving no goe and 6 or 7 pcs to possibly keep brown off the podium if he's clean.
 
Here's the Rapper's Delight performance where you can see Jason and Kori dancing and having a great time!
(They start out with a remixed version called "La La Song" then it goes back to the old school "Rapper's Delight")

http://www.arseniohall.com/video/mu...k_D_Luther_Campbell_DJ_Spinderella/index.html

And here's the full version of "La La Song," which Bob Sinclair, a French DJ, released in 2009. The song features Sugar Hill Gang, which sang the original song. I'm totally ramped up right now! LOOOOVVVVEEE THIS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB1RutFp0Cc

So random thought: So they referred to the group as "Rapper's Delight," which totally confused me because I always considered that the song title and the group was The Sugarhill Gang. So leading up to today, I was wondering who the heck was going to perform it....it turned out to be members of the Sugar Hill Gang after all (plus a hip-hop artist name Hendog + DJ T-Dynasty, who joined the group on the 30th anniversary of "Rapper's Delight" in 2009).
 
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