It's time to draw the curtains on my time with figure skating. Anyone joining me?

[Ambivalent]

This was also a fair result in many, many experts' minds. You have created the controversy because the result did not go your way. Your queen was not coronated automatically as you have planned. Yes, it hurts the sport because of the kind of crazy reactions from fans like you which have given wrong impressions and bad names to this sport.

My point is that the result would be more well understood if the audience was given an explanation as to why Adelina's PCS were as they were. She won not only because she had great technical ability, but also because the judges thought she had great components. All I want is an event where I think the judging is decent. That's all. I don't think I will get this with figure skating unfortunately.

A lot of posters have dismissed the claims of many Yu-Na/Carolina fans and put it down to immature whining. However, please hear me out when I say that a little more transparency as to the scores of some of these skaters wouldn't go astray. The current scoring is such that I am forced to swallow the scores whether I like it or not without explanation as to what actually went wrong. Instead, all we get are datasheets with jumbled numbers and anonymous judging.

Yes, fanbots have been raging and crazy but that issue aside, the question remains: how can figure skating judging be as transparent and subject to scrutiny as possible so as to explain why certain skaters received certain scores? Can I ask you - in your heart of hearts, if the competition was closer between Chan and Hanyu and Chan had just missed the OGM, and there was no explanation as to why Hanyu had won, it would make you feel at least a bit weird, right?

 

[vtgal]

This was also a fair result in many, many experts' minds. You have created the controversy because the result did not go your way. Your queen was not coronated automatically as you have planned. Yes, it hurts the sport because of the kind of crazy reactions from fans like you which have given wrong impressions and bad names to this sport.

Please don't be insulting by assuming that I was rooting for the "queen" by whom I assume you mean Kim. I did not have a favorite in the event. I was sure Kim would medal (color unknown but likely gold or silver) and expected that two of Kostner, Asada and either Lipnitskaya or Sotnikova would medal. Would have loved to have seen one of the Americans medal but did not expect them to do so. What really bothers me is that the judging was not obviously fair and correct (transparent). I've been following skating for a long time and of course this is not the first time that there has been controversy over judging. This is just the most recent, on the largest stage at the Olympics. If our positions were reversed I would not be so rude as to accuse you of "creating controversy" nor of having a "crazy reaction". I am a fan of the sport more than any one particular skater, and I really dislike seeing it hurt by these kinds of controversies that don't need to exist. Of course, there will always be fans of one skater or another who are upset over the final results and placements and feel that "their skater" should have won. But that isn't me in this case.

 

[usethis2]

What's funny about this saga is that I would have (and still might) followed Adelina post-Yuna/Mao as my next skating doll. Adelina has many of the qualities that I liked since her juniors. Things started getting soured quickly when the media and Russian federation started grooming Yulia (not Adelina's fault), and it really went south with the scoring in the main event (again, not Adelina's fault).

Now I am not sure what to do anymore, knowing how much power federations/judges wield over her - and all the other skaters. (I can't imagine her being ravished with 9.75/9.50 PCS all around like in this event, for example) I was too blind to see it during the Yuna-Mao era. Yuna especially was a shining example for me that excellence prevails against all odds.. I already turn the channel when Scott/Johnny/Tara appear to justify whatever that happens in this business. Time will heal wounds eventually, but I don't know how long.

 

[Silvia451]

Sometimes you just don't watch figure skating for the results. I was the happiest when I watched Mao at the FS even though she had no chance of a medal. Same with Dai the whole competition. Not to forget about my lovely V/M which were 99.99% silver medalists with no chances of gold. Figure skating is a beautiful sport and sometimes the medals do not count at all, but what you feel when you watch your favorite skaters.
Isn't it more important for you the beauty and class Yuna showed yesterday? She was above the situation. Don't give up watching figure skating because of some judges.
(sorry for my english)

 

[Ambivalent]

I have no objection for improving. I am all for better the scoring system. However, that is another calm and serious topic while what is happening is just crazy!

Though, I very much doubt that you could find the kind of judging system that would satisfy you in the so called "fairness". Even if you have a chance to participate the decision making, you will not be the only one to make the decision. Therefore, there is a chance that the result might not be what you want.

Your stance is reserved to the belief that FS judging will never, ever be fair. I still think we should strive for it by:

- Getting rid of judges who have been caught out for fraud previously.
- Getting rid of anonymous judging.
- Technical callers giving reasons as to why certain elements are called ! or level 2, 3, 4, etc.

 

[usethis2]

@Silvia451: Thank you for the kind words. But it is dreadful to even think about Adelina in Pyongchang 4 years later.

 

[Ambivalent]

No, my stance is that you might never feel it's fair unless it goes your way.

My stance is that you are wrong.

 

[GF2445]

I am going to stick it through. i shall continue to watch skating because its a joy to watch.

 

[noskates]

I'm staying. Mostly because I don't buy into these fixed judging and conspiracies. And I love the sport and have for many years. It will never be perfect to everybody.

 

[vtgal]

Among the a few ladies I like are YuNa, Yulia, and Gracie. I do not have strong hold on who has to win but believed that YuNa could win before going into the competition. I could see where Adelina's scores were coming from and saddened that there won't be another legendary back to back gold medal winner. However, Adelina deserved the win. Unless anyone could find evidence that some judges have done under the table deals for this particular competition, continuously making conspiracy assumptions and accusations are hurting this sport. That is my take.

Bluebonnet, I refer you back to an earlier post of mine: Figure skating, to keep its fans - and financial support - needs to fix the very clear problems that still exist in judging even under CoP. Figure skating WILL miss all the fans who leave as a result of this latest controversy. Don't you think it does already? Don't you remember the days when the skating shows were so popular and opened up lots of opportunities to top amateurs once they retired? Who can have a post amateur skating career nowadays like Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Katerina Witt, Kristi Yamaguchi? Answer -- no one. Why? Lots of reasons, but one is the complexity and lack of transparency of the CoP and another is the crap judging that happens from time to time as it did in Sochi.

I think I see where you're coming from in your quote above. But I disagree that the problem lies in the folks who are raising concerns about conspiracies or making accusations about questionable judging. To me, the problems is that the ISU does not have a transparent judging system. Because they allow anonymous judges, and do not require explanations about technical calls, allow judges who have been suspended for corruption to come back and judge again, etc. it is the ISU that has created the problem. It is the ISU that has set up a system in which many people have no trust or faith that the results will ALWAYS be fair (even if a favored skater does not win).

Edited to add...it is hard to look at this graph and not think there was something funky going on in Sochi. http://s2.postimg.org/dguzr8e89/Screen_Shot_2014_02_21_at_10_11_00_PM.png

 

[Beure]

I'm staying. Mostly because I don't buy into these fixed judging and conspiracies. And I love the sport and have for many years. It will never be perfect to everybody.

This is how I feel. Frankly, from my perspective, all the fuss is over nothing. I honestly think there are a considerable number of fans that wouldn't accept certain s̶c̶o̶r̶e̶s̶ placements regardless of what happened on the ice.

 

[peg]

Sometimes you just don't watch figure skating for the results. I was the happiest when I watched Mao at the FS even though she had no chance of a medal. Same with Dai the whole competition. Not to forget about my lovely V/M which were 99.99% silver medalists with no chances of gold. Figure skating is a beautiful sport and sometimes the medals do not count at all, but what you feel when you watch your favorite skaters.
Isn't it more important for you the beauty and class Yuna showed yesterday? She was above the situation. Don't give up watching figure skating because of some judges.
(sorry for my english)

Exactly!
And while it's disappointing and frustrating to see such blatant unfairness, the beauty of the port transcends that and I wouldn't stop watching because of it. I feel sad for the skaters, but it would be even sadder if people stopped watching and enjoying what they do.

 

[peg]

Edited to add...it is hard to look at this graph and not think there was something funky going on in Sochi. http://s2.postimg.org/dguzr8e89/Screen_Shot_2014_02_21_at_10_11_00_PM.png

Wow. That's quite the graph. And I'm sure Julia would have scored higher if she'd gone clean. I feel bad for Kaetlyn and the Japanese girls

 

[pangtongfan]

I am on board. After 3 years of Chan farces and now the Russian fixed Olympics in figure skating from start to finish, opening with V&T getting +3s for missed throws, Julia Lip and her monstrous scores for tiny weak jumps and no artistry, and concluding with Sotnitkova and her farce win, after Worlds I am done with figure skating for atleast 4 years. I might check up on it before the next Olympics and see if it is even worth checking out, but wont follow any skating after this season until then. If the Russians have this kind of power anywhere outside Russia in the years from now until then there will be nothing to check out anyway, as the IOC will have removed figure skating from the next Olympics in that case.

 

[pangtongfan]

I am going to stick it through. i shall continue to watch skating because its a joy to watch.

I agree it is a joy to watch. You can just watch Canadian Stars on Ice though, not competitions. Believe me, the former is far more enjoyable. No Alla Shekovtseva, Michael Slipchuk, Yuri Balkov, Vlamidir Putin, Ottavio Cinquanta, and Vladimir Piseev. Just great skating, no politics, no bought medals, no falling 3 or 4 times and picking up another gold.

 

[sky_fly20]

I am on board. After 3 years of Chan farces and now the Russian fixed Olympics in figure skating from start to finish, opening with V&T getting +3s for missed throws, Julia Lip and her monstrous scores for tiny weak jumps and no artistry, and concluding with Sotnitkova and her farce win, after Worlds I am done with figure skating for atleast 4 years. I might check up on it before the next Olympics and see if it is even worth checking out, but wont follow any skating after this season until then. If the Russians have this kind of power anywhere outside Russia in the years from now until then there will be nothing to check out anyway, as the IOC will have removed figure skating from the next Olympics in that case.

fine by me, so you and Flattfan will be gone after 2014 Worlds then ?
after all the veterans will retire and all will be left will be Gracie, Julia, Adelina, Polina, Elena, Zijun etc to dominate next quad

 

[Angryyew]

Personally, I'm more interested in the sport than I've been since Kwan retired. Yuna is great and all, but watching her and Chan win everything with little true competition was never interesting to me.

You can never be sure which ladies will come out the other side of puberty able to skate, but with Julia, Polina, Gracie, Adelina, Mae, Kaitlyn and others on the horizon, I'm looking forward to the next quad much more than the last one.

On the men's side I look forward to Hanyu and the other young Japenese men to continue to improve and hope skaters like Jason Brown, MCM and Misha Ge can become competitive. Plus there's whoever emerges from the junior ranks.

I'd like to see improvements in the judging system and comps are fun and all, but as long as there are skaters worth watching, I'll continue to watch the sport regardless of the results.

 

[vegarin]

This was also a fair result in many, many experts' minds. You have created the controversy because the result did not go your way. Your queen was not coronated automatically as you have planned. Yes, it hurts the sport because of the kind of crazy reactions from fans like you which have given wrong impressions and bad names to this sport.

Sigh. Why is this always about Yuna? It's almost ironic that non Yuna fans are more obsessed about her sometimes.

Scoring was inconsistent at best and it didn't just affect Kim -- all the (objectively) best skaters we've had for years, Mao Caro and Yuna, skated as best as they could, flawlessly, and they were all collectively defeated by Adelina. When Adelina won against Kim, and people questioned it, you heard what the reason was. Even though Yuna was more beautiful (their words, not mine), Yuna had one less triple. And lacked technical scores.

Even setting aside that particular side of ********, guess what. We have Carolina who also landed 7 triples, cleanly, without any mistake. She's usually one of the, if not the highest, PCS receiver. According to their reason, Carolina should've won and defeated Adelina, but did she? Carolina trailed behind Adelina by 7 points.

Oh, then maybe Carolina's technical scores are STILL not good enough against Adelia. Then what about Mao? She successfully landed EIGHT frigging triples, including 3A. I don't see anyone else, including Adelina, landing it. And don't tell me Adelina has more technical scores than Mao. But did Mao win? Nope, she's still trailing behind this wunderkid Adelina by 7 points.

So don't tell me Adelina's scores were justified. It's insulting.

 

[pangtongfan]

This was also a fair result in many, many experts' minds.

I am glad to see your delusion and fantasy world you create for yourself is not limited to just Patrick Chan as I previously thought.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Hi everyone,

I have been a fan of figure skating since 2006 when I saw Arakawa win the OGM with a fantastic skate. My favourite soon became none other than Kim Yu-Na who took my breath away at 2009 Worlds with her Danse Macabre and was later awarded the OGM with two great programs. But as time has gone by, my interest has started to wane because what I felt or perceived as unfair judging has interfered with my love of the sport.

How do I continue to love a sport where...

• It's acceptable for judges previously suspended to be allowed back to re-judge an event as big as the Olympics?
  
• It's easier than ever to collude with one another so as to pre-determine outcomes, especially as there is anonymous judging?
  
• Where there are no possible avenues of appeal or investigation of results that are deemed to be suspicious?
  
• Where artistry, grace and flow don't count as much as one's technical abilities? Where someone like Mao receives third place for a monumentally beautiful free skate in Sochi? In what universe should her components and artistry scored <70?
  
• Where as a layfan I can hardly understand the scoring system let alone its nuances?
  
• Where it's OK to mark early skaters down?
  
• Where Carolina, Mao and Yu-Na will not skate competitively after this season? Where their last Olympic skates were met with not raucous ovation but instead with a hostile crowd?
  
• Where poor Adelina's victory is now going to be forever tainted by accusations of unwarranted homeground inflation? The poor girl skates her heart out and her win is forever tarnished by this controversy.
  

It was very apparent to me, being someone with little technical knowledge of this sport, but in hearing the commentary from Katarina Witt, Kurt Browning, Robin Cousins and Dick Button, that something had gone wrong. I respect their opinions very much, so it is difficult for me to argue otherwise.

This is not about Yu-Na or Carolina not winning the gold. This is about a sport where I do not see fair judging for all competitors who should begin each competition on equal footing. I think I am going to let go of this sport. I cannot continue to support it any longer. It makes me so sad.

Please don't leave!! Figure skating needs all the support and help it can get. Here are some reasons not to leave and things to keep in mind.

1) This was one competition and overall, the judging system is improving, although there is still some way to go. We will get the end of anonymous judging soon. The new system has many positive aspects. All-around skaters like Jason Brown have a much better shot in this new system. Even Dick Button praises much about the new system- its emphasis on all-around skating, spins, transitions, footwork, etc. The kinks are still being ironed out.

2) Many many skaters including Kwan, Stojko, Wylie, Boitano, Weir, Lipinski, and Button have said that the actual results last night, the placements, were not a problem. It was the size of the gap between Adelina and the others.

3) Both because figure skating is a judged sport and because it is an art, there will always be some subjectivity in figure skating and there will always be results we will disagree with. There may also be what we consider injustice. Tastes differ. People differ. Nationalities and countries differ in their definitions of artistic and great choreography. As in life, so in figure skating.

4) There will always be some home field advantage, as there is in any sport.

5) There may be injustice of the kind that means a country's judge votes too high for his country's skater even if he/she doesn't especially like that skater, but under the new system, outlier marks will be thrown out. There may be injustice as there is in any sport that involves human beings making judgments in the moment: referees make "bad" calls all the time in football games, linesmen in tennis, etc.Get frustrated at the result but don't punish skating and the skaters because of your frustration.

6) There is no perfect judging system. Figure skating has always had an interesting split between those who favor the athletic side and those who favor the artistic. The best skaters- Mao, Boitano, Kwan, Kostner, Hanyu, Chan, Abbott at his best, Brown if he gets quad- combine both in an inimitable way.

and this brings me to the most important reason not to abandon figure skating: 7) the skaters. The magnificent, brave, creative, hardworking, dedicated, gifted, inspiring skaters who can touch us, uplift us, amaze us, delight us, and make our lives better with their magnificent performances REGARDLESS of the outcome.