Actually I have impression that people just hate Russia. It was already from the beginning so. I would agree that Sotnikova was overscored, maybe she could get 4-5 points less, still I personally think she deserve to win, but... I have seen many times overscored Kostner with really NOT GOOD skating, I have seen previous world champion LP - maybe we all remember - it was Patrick Chan whith really UNSUCCESSFUL skating (2 falls and 2 other mistakes in jumps), I remember Sasha Cohen which after brilliant SP did TERRIBLE LP in 2006 and still get a silver medal. But there were no petitions or something. Adelina did a really good clean performance, but people just hate Russians, that is true. I feel sorry for Adelina because I know how hard is to achieve something there, because people are not rich there like in Korea or USA. That's what I feel about all this.
2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
I gotta tell you marina, If there is Russain hate it's not by everybody,
I actually usually find myself rooting for the Russians to win
(All time favourites Slutskaya, Plushenko, B\S)
What went on here is just a bit much...
Sasha cohen comparison ? That's weird
I feel sorry for Adelina too, Bronze would've been a great victory for her.
Her Facebook
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- Jan 13, 2014
Graph of PCS http://s2.postimg.org/dguzr8e89/Screen_Shot_2014_02_21_at_10_11_00_PM.png
Wurk @ YunaShe's really a queen.
Your graph is completely ridiculous. You can't use a line graph for something like that. They didn't all compete in all those events. Your graph represents Yuna as having had some sort of continuum in scores superior to everyone else when in fact she didn't compete.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
The line streches from her Worlds 73.61 PCS
While she didn't compete in the Grand Prix and the others did, Doesn't make this graph ridicules,
It's factual and all that should be taken into consideration is how good a performance was technically and that might change PCS to some extent
in the Grand prix Kostner's really bad skate scored higher in PCS than Sotnikova's good skate at Bompard,
Any professional that works with graphs would ask right away what causes that incline at the end
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2013
What does Kostner's skating at other events have to do with this one? She did not put a foot wrong in either the short or the long, and was (besides Mao), artistically superior to everyone this Olympics. IMO, her PCS deserved to be 10s across the board. (Of course this is just my opinion.)
I can't speak for everyone, but I (and many I know) do NOT hate Russia. We just appreciate the greats, and great skating. As an American, my favorite male skater of MY lifetime is Yagudin. I've watched videos of the great Russian pairs and definitely loved them. I have zero hatred for Russia as a country, or Russians as a people (besides the whole persecuting gays thing).
Adelina was NOT clean in the long, and her PCS was astronomically inflated. She did not deserve gold, IMO. Her long program was tacky and unrefined. Her jump and spin elements were fine (besides the obviously uncalled flutz and the completely botched third jump of the 3 jump combo.) but her maturity and artistry on the ice was VERY juniorish. The choreo was weak and tacky. The ONLY reason she got the scores she did was because she was Russian, skating in Russia. Not only were the Russian girls help up, but others (besides Gracie) were held down. Others were scrutinized, where the Russian skaters were not (lutzes, URs, levels on step sequences).
We do not hate Russia or Russians... we hate obvious corrupt judging and the shame and tarnish it puts on our sport.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2013
I totally completely agree with everything you said!!!!!! (and Yagudin's my all-time favourite, too
)thanks for this post
Cohen's program in 2006 was amazing apart from 2 mistakes on the jumps. She kept it together and presented one of the best programs I've ever seen in terms of artistry and interpretation of the music. Her score and placing was correct IMO since Slutskaya made mistakes too. Jumps aren't everything.
This sport by nature is corrupt. The judges are basically part of the team since their Federation trains and supplies them for competitions. I can't think of another sport where the judges are hugging the Gold medalists because they both are chummy with each other and represent the same Federation. There should be absolutely no contact between athletes and judges before or after competitions. And i don't mean just Adelina hugging the Russian judge but D/W hugging the US tech controller.
- Joined
- May 31, 2010
As for Adelina 7-triple LP vs Yuna 6-triple LP issue..
Adelina : [in SP+LP] one 3Lz, three 3Fs / 3T3T, 3Lz3T
Yuna : [in SP+LP] three 3Lzs, two 3Fs / 3Lz3T, 3Lz3T
(Caro : [in SP+LP] one 3Lz, two 3Fs / 3F3T)
So, there is no a big difference between Adelina & Yuna in jump difficulty.
Adelina : [in SP+LP] one 3Lz, three 3Fs / 3T3T, 3Lz3T
Yuna : [in SP+LP] three 3Lzs, two 3Fs / 3Lz3T, 3Lz3T
(Caro : [in SP+LP] one 3Lz, two 3Fs / 3F3T)
So, there is no a big difference between Adelina & Yuna in jump difficulty.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2014
It does make your form of graph ridiculous. "Any professional that works with graphs" would immediately question why this type of graph was used in this circumstance. The "graph professional" would immediately know that a line graph was an extremely poor choice.
Absolutely! Not only should the South Korean Federation want a explanation of the long program scores they should also demand a explanation of the short program scores. Unfortunately, this type of behavior from the judges has left these Olympics forever tainted yet again.why people ignore the SHORT program!!!! yuna did 3lutz-3toe. Sotnikova did 3T-3T, the easiest 3-3combi. AND yuna did 3lutz-3toe with great quality also. and level 3 step??? plz explain the reason why yuna got level 3 and sotnikova got level4 in both program, and total gap is just 0.2x in SHORT program...just ridiculous!! Don't tell me that yuna was not fully motivated and looked unimpressive blah blah blah....Besids the PCS, I want to know all the MATH things about 2 performances clearly( not one free progrma only). AND WHY sotnikova didn't get WRONG edge in her 3lutz-3toe ???her 3toe also looked prerotated too and she got 1.0 goe on 3flutz-3toe<??? This is so wrong
Problem is not just russian and ukranian judges. Almost all judges scored Sotnikova very high. This is including CAN, ITA, GER, EST, JPN, FRA and SVK judges. This is really confusing
OK I did a little math with scores.
Without highest two judges (possibly russia and ukraine) and lowest (mandatory) Adelina's scores are:
SS:9.12
TR:8.91
PE:9.37
CH:9.45
IN:9.37
Overall PCS:73.95
Without lowest two judges (possibly russia and ukranie) and highest (mandatory) Kim's scores are:
SS:9.25
TR:9.00
PE:9.45
CH:9.45
IN:9.62
Overall PCS:74.8
Lowest scoring judge for Sotnikova is No 8. Even just his/her scores are overall 70.8 PCS.
OK I did a little math with scores.
Without highest two judges (possibly russia and ukraine) and lowest (mandatory) Adelina's scores are:
SS:9.12
TR:8.91
PE:9.37
CH:9.45
IN:9.37
Overall PCS:73.95
Without lowest two judges (possibly russia and ukranie) and highest (mandatory) Kim's scores are:
SS:9.25
TR:9.00
PE:9.45
CH:9.45
IN:9.62
Overall PCS:74.8
Lowest scoring judge for Sotnikova is No 8. Even just his/her scores are overall 70.8 PCS.
Not only that, but the top three PCS scores from short programme are also in line with the FS scores. There was NO Russian or EE judges on the SP panel.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/sotnikova-kim-free-skate-routines-side-side?ctx=olympic-journey
Look at the skating on between the elemts. In fact. Just look at the first minutes of the programs and you get a good idea of the disparity on difficulty and transitions in the programs.
6+ crossovers and gliding with cross strokes into a combo vs half that amount and choreo/transitions directly I to it.
Mohawk and a step into a huge telegraphed triple flip or Mohawk Choktaw Counter straight into a big Triple Flip.
Sotnikovas skating was more difficult as well. Not just her spins or jump layout. Yuna's program looks junior level by comparison (structurally speaking) and that's what reputation judging allows her to do. Lesser skaters would not break 8s if they skates Yuna's programs as she delivered them for SS TR CH or Perf/Exec.
Look at the skating on between the elemts. In fact. Just look at the first minutes of the programs and you get a good idea of the disparity on difficulty and transitions in the programs.
6+ crossovers and gliding with cross strokes into a combo vs half that amount and choreo/transitions directly I to it.
Mohawk and a step into a huge telegraphed triple flip or Mohawk Choktaw Counter straight into a big Triple Flip.
Sotnikovas skating was more difficult as well. Not just her spins or jump layout. Yuna's program looks junior level by comparison (structurally speaking) and that's what reputation judging allows her to do. Lesser skaters would not break 8s if they skates Yuna's programs as she delivered them for SS TR CH or Perf/Exec.
Article from Japan Times.
Scandalous outcome: Skating judges steal Kim’s title, hand it to Sotnikova
SOCHI, RUSSIA – Yuna Kim got robbed on Thursday night. Plain and simple.
What happened to her at the Sochi Games was a complete and utter disgrace. Another black eye for figure skating.
The elegant and magnetic South Korean superstar gave a wonderful performance in very difficult circumstances, not making a single mistake, yet came away with only a silver medal in what can only be deemed a scandalous result.
Russian gold medalist Adelina Sotnikova was impressive in her free skate, but was she five points better than Kim?
No way. How over the top was Sotnikova’s score in the free skate? Sixteen points better than her previous personal best.
Give me a break. What should have been a glorious moment for Russian skating was taking on a decidedly different tone the morning after, with some very disturbing information emerging.
I spoke with several journalists in the Main Press Center on Friday morning and it was nearly unanimous — they almost all thought that Kim had beaten home favorite Sotnikova.
Before I even made it back to my hotel after the competition, the debate was already beginning to rage.
With the arrival of Kim and Mao Asada many years ago, skating in Asia has been enjoying a boom. But the sad reality is that in many other places it has been languishing. The results in women’s singles here will only make promoting it harder. Every time something like this occurs it does exponential damage.
Millions of people around the world are watching and presuming it is all legitimate. Skating is a great sport — one that teaches important values to youngsters about dedication, hard work and sportsmanship — and to see it besmirched again is very disturbing.
What are the young skaters and fans who watched the free skate supposed to think?
What bothers me most is that here was this great champion, an incredible symbol for skating, giving it her all one more time. Kim is a millionaire many times over and certainly didn’t need to compete. She is set for life.
But she knew she was still young enough to give it another go and wanted her fans to have another chance to see her on the greatest stage. She put her legacy on the line in a bid to become only the third woman ever to retain the Olympic title (after Norway’s Sonja Henie and Germany’s Katarina Witt). It was a gutsy move.
Brennan, the author of the highly acclaimed skating book “Inside Edge,” didn’t mince any words in her analysis of the free skate, telling it exactly like it was.
“What happened tonight in the women’s figure skating competition was worse than the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal because, this time, we’ll never find out who might have done what because all the judges’ scores are now anonymous,” she wrote.
Brennan also quoted Joseph Inman, an American international skating judge as saying, “I was surprised with the result.”
Kim nailed both of her programs and should have retained her title. That is the bottom line.
Three-time U.S. champion Michael Weiss sensed something amiss with this Twitter comment on Thursday. “Yuna — two clean skates as defending Olympic champ wins gold, right?”
That’s the way it is supposed to be. Legendary American skater Dick Button, a two-time Olympic champion (1948, 1952), has been an analyst now for decades. The messages he tweeted said it all. “At one point, I had doubts regarding Yuna Kim — not after today. She was superb, elegant, charming. Never a wilt.” His feelings about the gold medalist were different. “Sotnikova was energetic, strong, commendable, but not a complete skater.”
What folks need to understand is that Sotnikova didn’t just emerge from oblivion. She has been around for a few years. She is a four-time Russian champion and the 2011 world junior champion. But in her three seasons skating on the senior circuit, she has never even won a Grand Prix event, much less medaled at a major international competition. She has qualified just once for the world championships as a senior, finishing ninth in 2013.
Did she suddenly become great overnight? Good enough to beat Kim in the Olympics? Your common sense will tell you no. Once you arrive there, the rest is not difficult to deduce.
Kim showed her true class with her comments after the free skate. She could have stirred up controversy, but was magnanimous in defeat. “The score is given by the judges,” she said. “I’m not in the right position to comment on it. And my words can change nothing.”
The reality is the trap for Kim was set on Wednesday night with the unfairly high score that Sotnikova received in the short program.
Kim was fabulous skating to “Send in the Clowns” and should have had a lead of at least four points heading into the free skate.
Instead, both Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova received inflated marks and the former was less than half a point behind Kim in second place. It was as if once it became apparent that Lipnitskaia wasn’t going to be a contender for the gold, the impetus swung to push Sotnikova. There is nothing that damages sports more than predictability, the preordained result. That’s what you saw on Thursday night.
Kim could not have gotten out of the Iceberg Skating Palace with the gold medal if she had left with it in an armored car.
I almost felt as if I were watching a play where Kim was going to be brought out and sacrificed as the final act.
That would have gone along with the story line, but Kim would have none of it. She displayed the heart and courage of a true champion in an amazing effort.
What happened next was a damn shame.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...kims-title-hand-it-to-sotnikova/#.UwiwcWJ_tjM
Scandalous outcome: Skating judges steal Kim’s title, hand it to Sotnikova
SOCHI, RUSSIA – Yuna Kim got robbed on Thursday night. Plain and simple.
What happened to her at the Sochi Games was a complete and utter disgrace. Another black eye for figure skating.
The elegant and magnetic South Korean superstar gave a wonderful performance in very difficult circumstances, not making a single mistake, yet came away with only a silver medal in what can only be deemed a scandalous result.
Russian gold medalist Adelina Sotnikova was impressive in her free skate, but was she five points better than Kim?
No way. How over the top was Sotnikova’s score in the free skate? Sixteen points better than her previous personal best.
Give me a break. What should have been a glorious moment for Russian skating was taking on a decidedly different tone the morning after, with some very disturbing information emerging.
I spoke with several journalists in the Main Press Center on Friday morning and it was nearly unanimous — they almost all thought that Kim had beaten home favorite Sotnikova.
Before I even made it back to my hotel after the competition, the debate was already beginning to rage.
With the arrival of Kim and Mao Asada many years ago, skating in Asia has been enjoying a boom. But the sad reality is that in many other places it has been languishing. The results in women’s singles here will only make promoting it harder. Every time something like this occurs it does exponential damage.
Millions of people around the world are watching and presuming it is all legitimate. Skating is a great sport — one that teaches important values to youngsters about dedication, hard work and sportsmanship — and to see it besmirched again is very disturbing.
What are the young skaters and fans who watched the free skate supposed to think?
What bothers me most is that here was this great champion, an incredible symbol for skating, giving it her all one more time. Kim is a millionaire many times over and certainly didn’t need to compete. She is set for life.
But she knew she was still young enough to give it another go and wanted her fans to have another chance to see her on the greatest stage. She put her legacy on the line in a bid to become only the third woman ever to retain the Olympic title (after Norway’s Sonja Henie and Germany’s Katarina Witt). It was a gutsy move.
Brennan, the author of the highly acclaimed skating book “Inside Edge,” didn’t mince any words in her analysis of the free skate, telling it exactly like it was.
“What happened tonight in the women’s figure skating competition was worse than the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal because, this time, we’ll never find out who might have done what because all the judges’ scores are now anonymous,” she wrote.
Brennan also quoted Joseph Inman, an American international skating judge as saying, “I was surprised with the result.”
Kim nailed both of her programs and should have retained her title. That is the bottom line.
Three-time U.S. champion Michael Weiss sensed something amiss with this Twitter comment on Thursday. “Yuna — two clean skates as defending Olympic champ wins gold, right?”
That’s the way it is supposed to be. Legendary American skater Dick Button, a two-time Olympic champion (1948, 1952), has been an analyst now for decades. The messages he tweeted said it all. “At one point, I had doubts regarding Yuna Kim — not after today. She was superb, elegant, charming. Never a wilt.” His feelings about the gold medalist were different. “Sotnikova was energetic, strong, commendable, but not a complete skater.”
What folks need to understand is that Sotnikova didn’t just emerge from oblivion. She has been around for a few years. She is a four-time Russian champion and the 2011 world junior champion. But in her three seasons skating on the senior circuit, she has never even won a Grand Prix event, much less medaled at a major international competition. She has qualified just once for the world championships as a senior, finishing ninth in 2013.
Did she suddenly become great overnight? Good enough to beat Kim in the Olympics? Your common sense will tell you no. Once you arrive there, the rest is not difficult to deduce.
Kim showed her true class with her comments after the free skate. She could have stirred up controversy, but was magnanimous in defeat. “The score is given by the judges,” she said. “I’m not in the right position to comment on it. And my words can change nothing.”
The reality is the trap for Kim was set on Wednesday night with the unfairly high score that Sotnikova received in the short program.
Kim was fabulous skating to “Send in the Clowns” and should have had a lead of at least four points heading into the free skate.
Instead, both Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova received inflated marks and the former was less than half a point behind Kim in second place. It was as if once it became apparent that Lipnitskaia wasn’t going to be a contender for the gold, the impetus swung to push Sotnikova. There is nothing that damages sports more than predictability, the preordained result. That’s what you saw on Thursday night.
Kim could not have gotten out of the Iceberg Skating Palace with the gold medal if she had left with it in an armored car.
I almost felt as if I were watching a play where Kim was going to be brought out and sacrificed as the final act.
That would have gone along with the story line, but Kim would have none of it. She displayed the heart and courage of a true champion in an amazing effort.
What happened next was a damn shame.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...kims-title-hand-it-to-sotnikova/#.UwiwcWJ_tjM
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2014
People who say that Sotnikova had a better program makes me LOL. Kim's program was understated, nuanced and elegant. She was trying to do something different than what she did 4 years ago. She's 23 now, she's not going to do the perky Bond girl thing or the ingenue-like program from the Gershwin number. Kim is trying to do something different here. However, Sotnikova's program even though more exuberant was lacking in sophistication, coherence and focus.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2014
It doesn't matter if Adelina did a more difficult program it wasn't executed well-hence the PCS scores high being ridiculous.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2014
Remember how Yuna got silver? Just a couple of days ago? Remember how Adelina got gold? Apparently Adelina outskated Yuna. Congratulations. That should be enough proof for you guys that Yuna is no threat to Adelina, right? Then LEAVE HER ALONE.
For god's sake. What more do you guys want? You already got your gold. You guys already buried Yuna as much as you could do -- yelling out loud repeatedly that she wasn't good enough because she didn't have heart, didn't have enough technical scores, didn't connect with the audience, what have you, hoping some of them would stick and transform into truth. If that's the truth, then there's no need to try to convince us, right? What's the reason trying to tell the world again and again she isn't good enough like a broken record if the Olympic at Sochi didn't actually show that already? What exactly are you afraid of?
She did the best she could do under the hostile circumstances. I'd like see Adelina skate a flawless program when she's skating last in the Olympics with the audience who are cheering for you to fall. Right, she couldn't manage one while she's skating basking in complete adoration. Is that the problem for you? Is that why?
It's not just Yuna I am upset about. Other girls were cheated as well. Look how Ashley finished behind Julia who fell twice and who had a botched landing on the loop. Ashley wasn't perfect but she didn't fall twice or make a boo boo on the loop. Also Carolina should have finished higher that Adelina. Gracie was also better than Adelina in the fs. Li Zhijun was underscored in the sp and the fs as well as Kanako, Meite, Akiko and Mao compared to Julia who fell twice and who made a mistake on the loop.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2014
Gracie Gold and Polina Edmunds will be on top of the podium very soon. They're polished and sophisticated for their age much more than the Russian girls.
