It's time to draw the curtains on my time with figure skating. Anyone joining me? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

It's time to draw the curtains on my time with figure skating. Anyone joining me?

Exactly!
And while it's disappointing and frustrating to see such blatant unfairness, the beauty of the port transcends that and I wouldn't stop watching because of it. I feel sad for the skaters, but it would be even sadder if people stopped watching and enjoying what they do.

I so agree with Silvia451 and Peg! Yes Yes Yes! It's not just about the results!! That's one of the reasons skating is so great! Jeremy Abbott's recovery in the short and his transcendent free, Carolina's short in the team event, and Mao's long were my favorite Olympic performances. It isn't all about medals. Again, as in skating, so in life. Results and medals are not everything. Courage and grace and joy are more important.

p.s. I also loved Dai's performances. and what about Johnny Weir in 2010? He came out of the Olympics as the best-loved male skater. you don't have to win or be judged fairly to make an impression and win hearts and succeed.
 
I've been a huge figure skating fan from when I was a child. I remember watching Dorothy Hamill skating to win gold in Innsbruck. I've seen lots of my favorites *not* win gold over the years. Of course, in the days of compulsory figures, that happened more often than I would have liked! But that was also part of the excitement and the fun! I never knew how it was going to turn out until the final skate ended. I still watched and enjoyed the sport. I was not one to believe in big judging conspiracies - but the judging controversy in 2002 changed that.

It's one thing to think the judges are nuts, blind, or inept. It's another to be convinced that the judges are corrupt and making placement decisions in advance of the competition. Coupled with what happened in Nagano in 1998 (with Yuri Balkov - the Ukranian judge at this Olympics), it made me think the corruption was endemic to the sport. After listening to the denials and rationalizations of the officials in charge of the ISU, it became harder for me to believe that they were not involved in the cover-up of these events - especially when there ended up being no investigations into the accusations lobbed at the ISU leadership. Of course, these judging decisions were not made for the betterment of the sport but for the advancement and (probably financial) betterment of the parties involved. I stopped watching figure skating after those Olympics. It lost the "spark" for me after that competition. I found the CoS to be unwieldy and deliberately abstruse for the layperson. I did stop in for the occasional competition (for the fun of it), but I was no longer what I would call a "fan" of the sport. I suspected that the changes made to the judging system were cosmetic. I wondered if the anonymity was put in place to hide any judging inconsistencies, rather than try and keep people from influencing the judging. The fact that the people involved in the judging scandal got slaps on the wrists while some of the whistleblowers ended up with lifetime bans should have been enough to convince me the sport is still corrupt.

But I got sucked into this Olympics. I watched every competition from the team event forward. I was not emotionally invested in any of the competitors. Like I said, I haven't even closely followed the sport in over a decade. But I did have fun for a while. I was disappointed that the men didn't deliver in their free skates. I was excited watching the pairs push the limits of their sport! I loved watching ice dancing - I still find looking for the subtle mistakes that can cost so many points incredibly challenging! And I enjoyed the Ladies' free skate. I loved watching Mao Asada's personal redemption in the free skate - that, to me, was a highlight of the show! I totally felt the top three ladies were the correct three to put on top. I truly enjoyed Sotnikova's skate. It was electric. It was exuberant. But there was a lot wrong with it. While I loved watching her skate well, I couldn't (and still can't) understand how some of her scores were as high as they were. That graph that vtgal added was pretty telling. There was a great article on thewire dot com entitled "Why People Think Adelina Sotnikova's Figure Skating Gold Medal Was Rigged." It went into a lot of detail about the scores and the choreography and had some revealing charts about the judges scores. I'd post a link, but the last time I tried, I got banned, so I won't be doing that again! ;)

Based on what I have been reading, and the people involved, I think the top level corruption still exists within the ISU (and most likely, at the USFSA.) As far as I'm concerned, adding to the viewership adds to the money, and the money ends up in the pockets of those corrupt officials. If another group manages to crawl out from under the thumb of the ISU & the USFSA, then maybe I'll come back to figure skating. But these groups are bloated, corrupt dinosaurs that will only become extinct if people stop watching the competitions associated with them. I wish there were more outlets for me to watch figure skating, but this sport is a monopoly controlled by an organization that will ensure no other group can maintain a foothold to compete with them. (Google "Ron Pfenning" if you want more information about that.) "Stars on Ice" is scheduled to come through my city this spring. I figure a couple of tickets for that show is within my budget! Outside of that, I think I'll go back to watching youtube videos of skaters I really enjoy and skipping the competitions.

Sorry my first post is such a bummer. :ohwell: My first attempted post wasn't quite as "wah-waaaah," but I just have to call it how I see it and make my decisions based on my comfort zone. That said, I don't think less of anyone with a different opinion of me. My opinion came about after *years* of following the changes in the ISU and my interpretation of what I saw. YMMV. :)
 
I've been a huge figure skating fan from when I was a child. I remember watching Dorothy Hamill skating to win gold in Innsbruck. I've seen lots of my favorites *not* win gold over the years. Of course, in the days of compulsory figures, that happened more often than I would have liked! But that was also part of the excitement and the fun! I never knew how it was going to turn out until the final skate ended. I still watched and enjoyed the sport. I was not one to believe in big judging conspiracies - but the judging controversy in 2002 changed that.

It's one thing to think the judges are nuts, blind, or inept. It's another to be convinced that the judges are corrupt and making placement decisions in advance of the competition. Coupled with what happened in Nagano in 1998 (with Yuri Balkov - the Ukranian judge at this Olympics), it made me think the corruption was endemic to the sport. After listening to the denials and rationalizations of the officials in charge of the ISU, it became harder for me to believe that they were not involved in the cover-up of these events - especially when there ended up being no investigations into the accusations lobbed at the ISU leadership. Of course, these judging decisions were not made for the betterment of the sport but for the advancement and (probably financial) betterment of the parties involved. I stopped watching figure skating after those Olympics. It lost the "spark" for me after that competition. I found the CoS to be unwieldy and deliberately abstruse for the layperson. I did stop in for the occasional competition (for the fun of it), but I was no longer what I would call a "fan" of the sport. I suspected that the changes made to the judging system were cosmetic. I wondered if the anonymity was put in place to hide any judging inconstancies, rather than try and keep people from influencing the judging. The fact that the people involved in the judging scandal got slaps on the wrists while some of the whistleblowers ended up with lifetime bans should have been enough to convince me the sport is still corrupt.

But I got sucked into this Olympics. I watched every competition from the team event forward. I was not emotionally invested in any of the competitors. Like I said, I haven't even closely followed the sport in over a decade. But I did have fun for a while. I was disappointed that the men didn't deliver in their free skates. I was excited watching the pairs push the limits of their sport! I loved watching ice dancing - I still find looking for the subtle mistakes that can cost so many points incredibly challenging! And I enjoyed the Ladies' free skate. I loved watching Mao Asada's personal redemption in the free skate - that, to me, was a highlight of the show! I totally felt the top three ladies were the correct three to put on top. I truly enjoyed Sotnikova's skate. It was electric. It was exuberant. But there was a lot wrong with it. While I loved watching her skate well, I couldn't (and still can't) understand how some of her scores were as high as they were. That graph that vtgal added was pretty telling. There was a great article on thewire dot com entitled "Why People Think Adelina Sotnikova's Figure Skating Gold Medal Was Rigged." It went into a lot of detail about the scores and the choreography and had some revealing charts about the judges scores. I'd post a link, but the last time I tried, I got banned, so I won't be doing that again! ;)

Based on what I have been reading, and the people involved, I think the top level corruption still exists within the ISU (and most likely, at the USFSA.) As far as I'm concerned, adding to the viewership adds to the money, and the money ends up in the pockets of those corrupt officials. If another group manages to crawl out from under the thumb of the ISU & the USFSA, then maybe I'll come back to figure skating. But these groups are bloated, corrupt dinosaurs that will only become extinct if people stop watching the competitions associated with them. I wish there were more outlets for me to watch figure skating, but this sport is a monopoly controlled by an organization that will ensure no other group can maintain a foothold to compete with them. (Google "Ron Pfenning" if you want more information about that.) "Stars on Ice" is scheduled to come through my city this spring. I figure a couple of tickets for that show is within my budget! Outside of that, I think I'll go back to watching youtube videos of skaters I really enjoy and skipping the competitions.

Sorry my first post is such a bummer. :ohwell: My first attempted post wasn't quite as "wah-waaaah," but I just have to call it how I see it and make my decisions based on my comfort zone. That said, I don't think less of anyone with a different opinion of me. My opinion came about after *years* of following the changes in the ISU and my interpretation of what I saw. YMMV. :)

You're eloquent and smart and touching! I love what you wrote. But please read my posts above and please keep watching. Especially since you think the ladies' placements were correct!
 
You're eloquent and smart and touching! I love what you wrote. But please read my posts above and please keep watching. Especially since you think the ladies' placements were correct!

Thanks so much. I do love the sport, which is why I think stepping away is the right thing for me. If there are substantial changes to the judging, I will re-think my stance. And while I do think the selection of the top three was correct, I do not necessarily think their placements within the top three were correct. :)
 
I am delighted that there will be less Yuna fans about. They are not real figure skating fans - they are simply people who have an obsession with one individual. If Kim had taken up Tennis instead of Figure Skating, then these individuals would have been posting on Tennis Forums instead of Figure Skating forums for the last 10 years. Now that would have really made an interesting spectacle - Rena Fans clashing with Yuna fans! Epic stuff
 
Sigh. Why is this always about Yuna? It's almost ironic that non Yuna fans are more obsessed about her sometimes.

Scoring was inconsistent at best and it didn't just affect Kim -- all the (objectively) best skaters we've had for years, Mao Caro and Yuna, skated as best as they could, flawlessly, and they were all collectively defeated by Adelina. When Adelina won against Kim, and people questioned it, you heard what the reason was. Even though Yuna was more beautiful (their words, not mine), Yuna had one less triple. And lacked technical scores.

Even setting aside that particular side of ********, guess what. We have Carolina who also landed 7 triples, cleanly, without any mistake. She's usually one of the, if not the highest, PCS receiver. According to their reason, Carolina should've won and defeated Adelina, but did she? Carolina trailed behind Adelina by 7 points.

Oh, then maybe Carolina's technical scores are STILL not good enough against Adelia. Then what about Mao? She successfully landed EIGHT frigging triples, including 3A. I don't see anyone else, including Adelina, landing it. And don't tell me Adelina has more technical scores than Mao. But did Mao win? Nope, she's still trailing behind this wunderkid Adelina by 7 points.

So don't tell me Adelina's scores were justified. It's insulting.

I agree with your comment. Mao Asada should have been closer to leading the free skate. I think her triple loop was marked as under-rotated (correct me if I'm wrong) on her 3-3 combination, but everything was still pretty much perfect. She is so pro and skilled at this sport she deserved better marks.
 
I am delighted that there will be less Yuna fans about. They are not real figure skating fans - they are simply people who have an obsession with one individual. If Kim had taken up Tennis instead of Figure Skating, then these individuals would have been posting on Tennis Forums instead of Figure Skating forums for the last 10 years. Now that would have really made an interesting spectacle - Rena Fans clashing with Yuna fans! Epic stuff

lol true, there are many fans (especially from Korea) who are really into figure skating because of Yuna Kim. What can you say, she is the only phenom from their country and dominated the international stage for such a long time. I'm sure there are some fans who knew nothing about the sport, but gradually started following it after they first started watching Yuna skate. It's ignorant to say that big fans of Yuna (or Yuna fans as people call them) aren't real figure skating fans. Yuna Kim is my favorite skater thus far, but I'm also a big fan of Mao Asada, Gracie Gold, Polina Edmunds, Mirai, etc. Used to be a huge fan of Sasha Cohen and of course Michelle Kwan. It's obvious how much you dislike Yuna Kim (possibly due to her fans although what her fans do is nothing under her control), but your comment is rather meaningless. There are hardcore fans everywhere. Yuna Kim just 'seems' to have more because there are many people worldwide who appreciates not only her skating, but her personality and her giving spirit. It's the same with other fans. When someone makes a negative remark toward someone they look up to, they won't hesitate to lash back with a reply.

With that said I'm probably leaving this sport as well because while I am a little upset with the results of the sochi olympics (I was rooting for Yuna after seeing Mao fall on the short and Gracie tilting on most of her jumps in the short), I'm more furious with the dishonesty of the Russians who participated in the event (not skaters, but I guess you'd call them 'staffs' or 'officials' .. or 'criminals'?). Not only that, but the russian audience at the game were really disrespectful and left me with a cringing expression toward this sport. It's almost more of a political event than a sporting event. Artistry doesn't even seem to be worth squat anymore, so I assume it will turn into a sharp jumping contest rather than a graceful performance. I guess this Olympics left me with a bitter taste and a frown because it was hosted in Russia. All I can say is I'm extremely disappointed that Sochi was chosen for this important event, but I was happy to see Meyrl and Charlie win Gold (even though I like Scott and Tessa a lot too). :) See ya.
 
Sometimes you just don't watch figure skating for the results. I was the happiest when I watched Mao at the FS even though she had no chance of a medal. Same with Dai the whole competition. Not to forget about my lovely V/M which were 99.99% silver medalists with no chances of gold. Figure skating is a beautiful sport and sometimes the medals do not count at all, but what you feel when you watch your favorite skaters.
Isn't it more important for you the beauty and class Yuna showed yesterday? She was above the situation. Don't give up watching figure skating because of some judges.
(sorry for my English)

BTW, your English is just fine! :love:

I am going to stick it through. i shall continue to watch skating because its a joy to watch.

Exactly!
And while it's disappointing and frustrating to see such blatant unfairness, the beauty of the port transcends that and I wouldn't stop watching because of it. I feel sad for the skaters, but it would be even sadder if people stopped watching and enjoying what they do.

Please don't leave!! Figure skating needs all the support and help it can get.


and this brings me to the most important reason not to abandon figure skating: 5) the skaters. The magnificent, brave, creative, hardworking, dedicated, gifted, inspiring skaters who can touch us, uplift us, amaze us, delight us, and make our lives better with their magnificent performances REGARDLESS of the outcome.

:agree: :clap:
 
I am delighted that there will be less Yuna fans about. They are not real figure skating fans - they are simply people who have an obsession with one individual. If Kim had taken up Tennis instead of Figure Skating, then these individuals would have been posting on Tennis Forums instead of Figure Skating forums for the last 10 years. Now that would have really made an interesting spectacle - Rena Fans clashing with Yuna fans! Epic stuff

and good riddance too to the Yuna fans.
the forum should be back to normal once Yuna retires
 
Sometimes you just don't watch figure skating for the results. I was the happiest when I watched Mao at the FS even though she had no chance of a medal. Same with Dai the whole competition. Not to forget about my lovely V/M which were 99.99% silver medalists with no chances of gold. Figure skating is a beautiful sport and sometimes the medals do not count at all, but what you feel when you watch your favorite skaters.
Isn't it more important for you the beauty and class Yuna showed yesterday? She was above the situation. Don't give up watching figure skating because of some judges.
(sorry for my english)

This is the way I feel about skating. I don't always understand the judging, but I understand what the skaters are doing, and it's glorious. And like you, the beautiful, heartfelt performances of Mao and Daisuke, for whom I had been rooting all season, were highlights of the event. I realized while watching them that their skating was worth a lot more than any medal or point score they might have achieved. Also, though I was happy that Davis/White won gold, I was thrilled to watch the equally marvelous Virtue/Moir, and I'll watch them skate again and again on YouTube. As you also point out, YuNa's conduct after the competition also moved me. I wouldn't have wanted to miss that.

Your English is splendid. Keep writing to us!
 
and good riddance too to the Yuna fans.
the forum should be back to normal once Yuna retires

The forum may or may not return to normal, but this sport will never be the same. Its integrity has been shattered. At the most important competition in the sport, the rightful winner lost the gold medal to a skater who would have barely won the bronze, due to score manipulation by the host country. Live with that.
 
Don't do that... a sport is a sport. You can protest and urge for changes, but don't avoid it and say it's over. Like anything in life.
 
The forum may or may not return to normal, but this sport will never be the same. Its integrity has been shattered. At the most important competition in the sport, the rightful winner lost the gold medal to a skater who would have barely won the bronze, due to score manipulation by the host country. Live with that.

live with that that isn't the first time this has happened
the only reason the Yuna fans are heavily spamming the thread is because their so called "Queen" lost :rolleye:

it s a sport, oh well
you win some , you lose some
looking forward post retirements of Mao-Yuna-Carolina
bring in the new blood !
 
Hi everyone,

I have been a fan of figure skating since 2006 when I saw Arakawa win the OGM with a fantastic skate. My favourite soon became none other than Kim Yu-Na who took my breath away at 2009 Worlds with her Danse Macabre and was later awarded the OGM with two great programs. But as time has gone by, my interest has started to wane because what I felt or perceived as unfair judging has interfered with my love of the sport…

For me, I have learned not to put too much emphasis on the Olympic Games. My favorite skaters wins, or she doesn't.

I like to follow the Grand Prix in the fall. Who is going to make the final? Which newcomers have moved up to the top ranks this year? My favorite competition is U.S. nationals, and the regional and sectional competitions that determine who gets to skate there.

As for the competition just ended, IMHO there is a reason why Olympic ladies figure skating champions are almost all teenagers. That reason is: "higher, faster, stronger." At age 19 Yuna Kim was higher, faster, stronger than anyone else. At 23 she was not quite so high, fast, and strong. That's life. Kim winning silver instead of gold does not make me like her less.

I look forward to seeing what the Russian baby boom in ladies' skating will bring. I hope Tuktamysheva is able to get back in the mix. Will Radionova eventually rise above both of the Olympic gold medalists, Lipnitskia (team) and Sotnikova (individual). Aren't there a couple of even younerg prodigies in the pipeline?

My all-time favorite is Michelle Kwan. She was a great ice skater, but it is what she has accomplished since she put her skates aside that deserves the higher accolades. I can't wait to see what Yuna Kim turns her attention to next.
 
Based on what I have been reading, and the people involved, I think the top level corruption still exists within the ISU (and most likely, at the USFSA.) As far as I'm concerned, adding to the viewership adds to the money, and the money ends up in the pockets of those corrupt officials. If another group manages to crawl out from under the thumb of the ISU & the USFSA, then maybe I'll come back to figure skating. But these groups are bloated, corrupt dinosaurs that will only become extinct if people stop watching the competitions associated with them.

This is something that bothers me as well. I've worked in politically motivated organizations before, and I know that these attitudes are systemic. There are lots of ideas floating around to make judging more transparent, but none of those changes are going to help if the organization and the people in it still think it's okay. There should be a concerted effort by the ISU to ensure fair judging, similar to the way they IOC has worked to combat doping.

I also think that it's important for fans to be able to intelligently criticize results without being immediately branded a sore loser or a fanbot. There's a difference between saying something like "I thought Skater X was just better. I'm so upset that they didn't win. IT'S ALL RIGGED!!!!" and something like "Skater Y's PCS scores increased significantly over the past few months. Why?" or "This judge was implicated in a scandal 10 years ago. Why are they still judging?" or "Skater Z's lutz was clearly taken off from the wrong edge. Why was that not called?"

I'm not sure if I'll continue to watch. Probably not with the same level of interest, anyway. Part of it is the judging problems, part of it is that many of my favourites are probably retiring, and also because of the mess that is mens skating now (Mens has always been my favourite discipline, going back to the Battle of the Brians in 1988).
 
To me, fs is more about the performance and not so much about the scoring and placement- even though I of course do want to see people justly recognized for their hard work and dedication. Even if there are some pretty bad outcomes from time to time I will still continue to enjoy the performances and skaters themselves.
 
Some fans are just saying people are having temper tantrums and maybe some are but there are a lot who are just fed up. I mean who cares if the ratings for skating will be in the crapper.


I can't believe Mao, Akiko, Yuna, Dai, Jeremy, Carolina, SS (the original), VT, DW, VM and more are all going to be gone. All my favs will be gone.
 
I've been a figure skating fan since the late 1960's. I survived the Cold War judging & years when judging panels were heavily weighted with European judges & while I may hate the judging at times I continue to love watching the youngsters develop & hopefully move up in the sport. I admire all skaters their dedication & work ethics from the ones who never make it to their nationals to those that are the current elite. Figure skating swings back & forth looking for a balance between the technical & artistry so at times one aspect is given more attention than the other in hopes of moving it towards greater difficulty or beauty. IMO we are entering a period where technical prowess is given more notice. I do agree that anonymity in judging is wrong & that the judges should be interviewed after a competition by reporters just as the skaters/coaches are interviewed & asked to explain their marks.
 
I'm still pretty disappointed and can't find words to express it, I think I need to separate from this so-called sports for a while. Maybe be able to love it again later, but I doubt it, if system and corruption doesn't get changed.
 
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