The Judging Controversy Thread

[drivingmissdaisy]

You continue to ignore my points.

1. Did Scott Hamilton not say, on-air, that Adelina won because of her higher jump content? Specifically, 7 triples vs. 6?

2. Is that not contrary to his remarks in 2010, when he stood behind Evan's win over Plushenko's harder jump content?

3. Did he not mislead his audience, and abandon his duties as an impartial analyst, by not raising the point Yuna's jump content was harder in the short program?

4. Is it not disingenuous to narrow down the entire competition to one element, as it would be to say the team with the most rebounds should win a basketball game?

1) Yes.
2) I don't find it contrary because they were different competitions. Is Scott compelled to favor the artist over the technician EVERY TIME because of a comment he made in 2010? That's a bit ridiculous to corner him like that and say he is never allowed to express his actual opinion. That's like saying if Kurt ever Elvis over a more artistic skater then Kurt has to prefer technical skaters for the rest of his life.
3) Yuna scored more points for her combination than Adelina. The rest of the jumps they did the same. Adelina scored more points for her superior spins.
4) Scott cannot in 30 seconds go through the arguments we have made in 96 pages. People don't want a 45 minute explanation of why Adelina was better. As a commentator he needs to highlight the top reason or two for the outcome, which he did.

 

[usethis2]

Adelina's Lutz was a 100% Flutz. Don't forget that.

 

[kslr0816]

The judges mark would indicate that, overall, the judges thought Adelina did the technical elements better. It is not unheard of for a technical skater to outside an artistic one, as we saw Irina beat Michelle many times. Honestly, I feel the outraged fans lack critical analysis.

Seriously? Yes, of course it's not unheard of. But Adelina didn't just beat Yuna on technical - she beat her on PCS and GOE. This is the critical analysis bit coming in, which you are saying people are lacking. This is what people are finding as they're digging into things. You seem to want to accept that as face value, like it is the only bit that matters. I don't have to remind you that the total score includes the SP and the FS?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't necessarily think a conspiracy was involved. I just think nearly all the judges strongly leaned and inflated the scores of Adelina and Yulia, yes to the point of changing the finishing order. Like I said before, you seem to be using the argument that a conspiracy is unlikely to say that, essentially while the scores may not be totally accurate, the finishing order was. Those who seem to be in the know, and also don't have a stake in it either way, seem to disagree with the finishing order.

If there was no foul play involved then it is just a result a lot of people disagree with. That is not the case the ubers is making.

 

[Ven]

Scott Hamilton was either incompetent or willfully negligent with his commentary. Not because he agreed with the results, but because he failed to give a reasoned explanation -- on points -- of why the results were fair. His explanations were hypocritical, disingenuous, incompetent, or some combination thereof.

In stark contrast was Kurt Browning, whose commentary was logically consistent. Kurt Browning was not a hero for skating fans in this scandal because he disagreed with the result, he is a hero because you can tell he spoke what was honestly on his mind, he showed great integrity, and gave insightful explanations of why he thought the results needed to be looked at more closely.

Scott Hamilton did none of that, and the inconsistencies in his commentary demonstrate a lack of forthrightness...instead trying to explain away the results.

Bravo Kurt Browning, you are the real champion in life.

 

[gmyers]

Yes it is true. I have it on tape and have watched it several times. Scott and Sandra discuss the results, and Sandra says Yuna's quality was so much better (apparently only 0.09 better, Sandra)... and then Scott chimes in with some remark "it's all about the jumps these days". Then when he was asked in subsequent days, he re-iterated his position that Adelina won because she did 7 triples and Yuna didn't.

Why are you denying what I saw! I saw him discuss on NBC! He said what I posted! He said the artistic was 5 boxes and Sotnikova checked them all! I know what Hamilton said. I have watched all the broadcasts and the special commentary on NBC.com and NBC on demand on the ladies event!

 

[usethis2]

@kslr0816: I would ignore a few members posting. They would say exactly the same thing over and over even if Yulia had won the gold. Check their posts prior to the event, for example.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Seriously? Yes, of course it's not unheard of. But Adelina didn't just beat Yuna on technical - she beat her on PCS and GOE.

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole that you ubers are going for to make your points. ADELINA. DID. NOT. WIN. PCS. Almost every single judge gave Adelina more GOE than Yuna.

 

[chuckm]

It's quite interesting that Alla Shekhovtseva was photographed hugging Sotnikova after her win. It's also interesting that Shekhovtseva was on the judging panel of every one of Sotnikova's competitions this season: Cup of China, TEB, GPF, Europeans and Olympics. Too bad she won't be on the Ladies panel at Worlds--no RUS judge (maybe she'll be on the men's panel pushing Kovtun).

 

[usethis2]

"You don't think Adelina's Lutz was Flutz?"

Those who advocate unjust results would not answer questions like above. They will repeat the same thing like parrots.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Adelina's Lutz was a 100% Flutz. Don't forget that.

Yuna's solo 3Lz was 100% <, don't forget that.

 

[usethis2]

And Adelina's 3T was <<.

You do the math.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

And Adelina's 3T was <<.

Oh well, good thing is Adelina won and you're going to have to deal with that

 

[Ven]

Why are you denying what I saw! I saw him discuss on NBC! He said what I posted! He said the artistic was 5 boxes and Sotnikova checked them all! I know what Hamilton said. I have watched all the broadcasts and the special commentary on NBC.com and NBC on demand on the ladies event!

Even drivingmissdaisy, who is on your side, just admitted Scott emphasized "7 vs. 6" in his commentary. How you can say otherwise, is beyond me, since I've seen the tape many times.

 

[usethis2]

Ignored.

 

[verysmuchso]

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole that you ubers are going for to make your points. ADELINA. DID. NOT. WIN. PCS. Almost every single judge gave Adelina more GOE than Yuna.

Yuna edged out Adelina in PCS by 0.09 points I believe. Let it be said again her PCS increased what? by 18 or 20 points since the Euro, if I remember correctly. Now explain to me how Adelina has the same level as Yuna in skating skills, interpretation, etc. Every time she hit the ice with her blunt edge, I was truly sorry for the ice, and I still don't know what her program was about and what she was trying to convey.

 

[gmyers]

It was all an optical illusion too. You know how the floor of the stadium of the opening ceremonies had projectors and could be 3D! Well it was the same thing on the ice rink! There was no sotnikova. It was 3D all the way. It was an optical illusion. Her jumps were technology 3D generation!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Even drivingmissdaisy, who is on your side, just admitted Scott emphasized "7 vs. 6" in his commentary. How you can say otherwise, is beyond me, since I've seen the tape many times.

I did not see most of Scott's commentary, just remember him saying Yuna needed to do more technically that night to win.

 

[gmyers]

Even drivingmissdaisy, who is on your side, just admitted Scott emphasized "7 vs. 6" in his commentary. How you can say otherwise, is beyond me, since I've seen the tape many times.

Just because he said that doesn't mean he also didn't say the other thing. He said both. He said 7 vs 6 and that Sotnikova checked all the PCS boxes!

 

[kslr0816]

If there was no foul play involved then it is just a result a lot of people disagree with. That is not the case the ubers is making.

Yes. They're building a case to see if there was any foul play. They're taking a look at the data, people involved, circumstances, scores, etc. to see if there is indication of foul play. They feel there is. In this regard, you've presented your argument, which is that they would have had to "bought" off too many judges - a very good point.

My personal opinion is that while there may not have been a plan of foul play the score is NOT fair, and that many in power had it in their minds to get one of their chosen skaters on the podium, via scoring more than an impartial judge would. You may or may not disagree with that. To try to invalidate the entire argument based on who's make the argument is practicing a little ad hominem yourself. Ignoring all the other side talk going on in this thread, people are simply asking the question, was there foul play? Obviously, there are many people that feel this way, at least that the scoring was unfair - and NOT because Yuna is their chosen skater. Obviously nothing conclusive, but you're essentially telling people to shut up and take it, and stop looking into things. The answer to that is, "no."