The Judging Controversy Thread

[Sam-Skwantch]

There are people who still believe that BS. lol. I told them Yulia is a converted Jew.

I can't find the humor in being a converted Jew. Can someone explain this to me. At least DMD's dig at Yuna wasn't classless and draws a funny image. I also don't understand how a fan of this sport can accuse one of its brightest up and coming stars of being a liar without a shred of evidence. What do you gain from that. How does that shed light on this controversy?

 

[capcomeback]

Seriously? Sotnikova's spirals are 10 times better than Yuna or Carolina.

That is simply untrue. Next you'll say that she's better than Sasha Cohen in her prime. We know you like the skater, but please...

Additionally, some of her spins are interesting but I don't find the positions to be that attractive. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that you SHOULD do something.

 

[pangtongfan]

If she's smart, she'll emigrate somewhere where she can continue to improve her skating.

ROTFL if Adelina left Russia she would immediately drop out of the top 5. The last thing she should do if she even plans on competing any longer is to leave Russia. She owes her OGM 110% to being Russian. Does anyone even the very few who defend her win think there is a chance in hell she would be an OGM today if she werent a Russian skater and the Olympics in Russia. Of course not.

 

[pangtongfan]

That is simply untrue. Next you'll say that she's better than Sasha Cohen in her prime. We know you like the skater, but please...

Carolina in fact has quite nice spirals and overall superior to Sotnikova. Yes drivingmmissdaisy would probably say Sotnikova has as good or better spirals to Cohen or Kwan thoug. She is that delusional when it comes to Sotnikova who she has been kissing up to for years on the forum and potraying her as some great skating god (and now with a fraud medal to try to justify that fantasy will really turn it on).

 

[R.D.]

I think Sotnikova at least deserved a podium finish in Sochi. She WAS on after all. I don't really agree with her winning (at least NOT by the margin she did) but I would totally have been OK with her in 3rd, perhaps even 2nd.

 

[pangtongfan]

I think Sotnikova at least deserved a podium finish in Sochi. She WAS on after all. I don't really agree with her winning (at least NOT by the margin she did) but I would totally have been OK with her in 3rd, perhaps even 2nd.

The margin was the worst thing of all. Maybe had she won by less than 2 points a few more people could have stomached her win, but her scores were so blatantly inflated in both programs (and others visibly held down) to create that inexplicable and inexcusable winning margin, that it has created the worldwide fury we see post event. They didnt even try and subtly hide how blatant they were with their cheating. Even with Chan in the past they do a better job of hiding the SC paycheque than they did here.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Additionally, some of her spins are interesting but I don't find the positions to be that attractive. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that you SHOULD do something.

Sure you should if it earns you points. The Olympics aren't about performing exhibition programs. They are about doing as much difficulty as you can execute.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Carolina in fact has quite nice spirals and overall superior to Sotnikova. Yes drivingmmissdaisy would probably say Sotnikova has as good or better spirals to Cohen or Kwan thoug. She is that delusional when it comes to Sotnikova who she has been kissing up to for years on the forum and potraying her as some great skating god (and now with a fraud medal to try to justify that fantasy will really turn it on).

Yes, I'm delusional as is more than half the judging panel which scored her over 151. Maybe you are delusional for not seeing all the choreographically empty spots in Yuna and Caro's programs. Yuna spends 1/12 of her program to set up and execute her lutz combo; the flip and second lutz have long set ups too where she does nothing but skate into those elements. She doesn't even bother to do an arm movements to portray the mood of the music. She decided to rest on her reputation, skate an empty program with no 3Lo and expect to have the same result she has in the past. She was bound to get caught at some point and it happened in Sochi.

 

[Zora]

That is simply untrue. Next you'll say that she's better than Sasha Cohen in her prime.

Well, I think this is quite an impressive spiral... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjX0dntcBsg#t=98

 

[pangtongfan]

Spirals are about more than just the height of the free leg. That is also the reason most experts (other than Dick Button who orgasmed over the mere sight of Sasha) rated Kwans spirals above Cohen overall. Since the run of the blade, depth of edge, and flow were all superior to Sasha, even though Sasha had even better positions. Kostner and to a lesser degree Kim have good positions, extension, and pretty good (moreso Kostner) flexability, and are superior in all those other areas that surround the bladework of the spiral to Sotnikova.

 

[cchen24]

Yes, I'm delusional as is more than half the judging panel which scored her over 151. Maybe you are delusional for not seeing all the choreographically empty spots in Yuna and Caro's programs. Yuna spends 1/12 of her program to set up and execute her lutz combo; the flip and second lutz have long set ups too where she does nothing but skate into those elements. She doesn't even bother to do an arm movements to portray the mood of the music. She decided to rest on her reputation, skate an empty program with no 3Lo and expect to have the same result she has in the past. She was bound to get caught at some point and it happened in Sochi.

I know your view towards Yuna is very biased. Hooters program... sigh

But, Yuna did not expect any results. Did she ever say she went to Sochi to win?
To me, she went to Sochi mostly for her federation and for her fans.

 

[Npmonice]

Well, I think this is quite an impressive spiral... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjX0dntcBsg#t=98

What caught my attention more than the spirals was the gentleman she was handing her flowers to. Such a small world

 

[capcomeback]

Sure you should if it earns you points. The Olympics aren't about performing exhibition programs. They are about doing as much difficulty as you can execute.

Skaters are skaters, not contortionists on ice. Her leg on her trademark spin just makes the rest of the spin look weird (It's usually poorly timed and uneven anyway). It's not an attractive position. If you wish to reward her with level of difficulty, take it away in her PCS, lol. It's difficult to land a back flip but they're not allowed (even when landed on one foot like Surya Bonaly did). So, it's not just about doing hard stuff. Again, skaters are not contortionists or acrobats.

 

[capcomeback]

Well, I think this is quite an impressive spiral... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjX0dntcBsg#t=98

Michelle Kwan's spirals were incredible because of her edge control (being able to switch from inside to outside edges). That showed the depth of her edges and power she skated with. Adelina has a long way to go to display this kind of skill. The good news for her is that she's not the only one.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

We need to change this thread name to "This is how I interpret figure skating and why everyone else is wrong" and give OP credit to @SkateDictator

 

[capcomeback]

We need to change this thread name to "This is how I interpret figure skating and why everyone else is wrong" and give OP credit to @SkateDictator

I think that based upon her record and accomplishments, it's pretty fair to say that Michelle Kwan had some skills, without coming off like a "skate dictator". I'm just saying that a lot of skaters have paled in comparison to Michelle's skating quality. I don't think I'm alone in this thinking. Due to the judging controversy, I think Adelina becomes a target when her scores rank her among the best ever. Is this fair to her? No. But the blame falls squarely on those who have elevated her too quickly (in terms of skill, not in time as I realize that she's been at it for a while).

 

[Anna K.]

And where's usethis2 when we need usethis2 sending everybody to spiral-discussing threads?

Seriously, people: what are judging controversy updates? Are there none? Then, why don't you leave this thread to rest in peace for a while?
There are tons of worthy discussions around. I believe that spiral quality is one of them and posters who are not interested in judging controversy would join it gladly if you started a thread.

 

[Kelly]

Yes, I'm delusional as is more than half the judging panel which scored her over 151. Maybe you are delusional for not seeing all the choreographically empty spots in Yuna and Caro's programs. Yuna spends 1/12 of her program to set up and execute her lutz combo; the flip and second lutz have long set ups too where she does nothing but skate into those elements. She doesn't even bother to do an arm movements to portray the mood of the music. She decided to rest on her reputation, skate an empty program with no 3Lo and expect to have the same result she has in the past. She was bound to get caught at some point and it happened in Sochi.

There are videos available now on fsuniverse. Watching Sotnikova and Kim's long programs back to back, it's really obvious that the latter's choreography is much emptier to garner points. After the judges had placed Sotnikova's LP ahead of Kostner's clean one, it makes sense to me Kim's scores shouldn't have been higher than Sotnikova's.

 

[Anna K.]

There are videos available now on fsuniverse. Watching Sotnikova and Kim's long programs back to back, it's really obvious that the latter's choreography is much emptier to garner points. After the judges had placed Sotnikova's LP ahead of Kostner's clean one, it makes sense to me Kim's scores shouldn't have been higher than Sotnikova's.

And there's at least one thread in this forum about the comparison of both programs move-to-move, enjoy:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?49354-How-Sotnikova-beat-Kim-Move-by-Move

 

[jaylee]

Yes, I'm delusional as is more than half the judging panel which scored her over 151. Maybe you are delusional for not seeing all the choreographically empty spots in Yuna and Caro's programs. Yuna spends 1/12 of her program to set up and execute her lutz combo; the flip and second lutz have long set ups too where she does nothing but skate into those elements. She doesn't even bother to do an arm movements to portray the mood of the music. She decided to rest on her reputation, skate an empty program with no 3Lo and expect to have the same result she has in the past. She was bound to get caught at some point and it happened in Sochi.

Seriously, stop making up lies. You're either biased or blind. Every single one of Yuna's arm movements--and she has quite a few of them--reflect the music perfectly. There's not a fingertip out of place throughout the program, every single one has purpose and clarity.

And no, she doesn't just skate into elements (she has choreography in between pretty much every element unless she decided to make it a seamless transition from element to element, which DOES help your transitions score), and it is a complete fabrication on your part to say that she decided to "rest on her reputation, skate an empty program with no 3Lo and expect to have the same result as she had in the past." The only thing accurate in that post is that Yuna did not have a 3Lo. Otherwise, it's all lies, lies, lies. Find me a quote where Yuna said she expected to win the OGM in Sochi. She never said it, so you won't be able to find it. Your hostility and personal bias undermines your credibility to the point where it's evident you have none.