Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

[mskater93]

If it is one person's job to verify the step sequences and another person's job to verify jumps (edges UR's etc), then you don't have any back and forth (except with the Controller and that happens now anyway).

Typically, the features are broken up for a step sequence between the members of the tech panel. One looks for 2 of the 4 possible features and the others each look for one and report in as "yes", "no", or "review"

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

If it is one person's job to verify the step sequences and another person's job to verify jumps (edges UR's etc), then you don't have any back and forth (except with the Controller and that happens now anyway).

I would intentionally put my StepSequence right at the end and go sit in the kiss-n-cry laughing at the tech judge scrambling to figure out which edge I was on and single handedly delaying the event by 2mins hopefully intensifying the anxiousness of the next skater who is nervously awaiting their turn. Lol. I'm kidding of course but that's how my mind works. Sorry.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The reality is... it's simply not feasible to analyze 30 turns/steps and ensure the edges were correct. And keeping track of whether 5 different turns and 3 different steps were both executed in each direction is damn near impossible, especially while assessing the other aspects of the footwork sequence. Even if you had a checkbox, that's 16 movements (along with all other movements executed in a footwork sequence).

There are 3 people on the tech panel and they split up the duties of looking at the footwork sequence. It's one person's job to solely see what level the skater achieved in terms of this first criteria. It's the hardest job for sure.

Another tech panel member usually looks for both criteria #2 and #3 together (did the skater do turns in both direction for 1/3 of the pattern each and use upper body movement for 1/3 of the pattern), as they are the easier ones to determine.

And then the last tech panel member determines criteria #4 (were there two different combinations of difficult turns executed with clear rhythm).

 

[JayW]

There are 3 people on the tech panel and they split up the duties of looking at the footwork sequence. It's one person's job to solely see what level the skater achieved in terms of this first criteria. It's the hardest job for sure.

Another tech panel member usually looks for both criteria #2 and #3 together (did the skater do turns in both direction for 1/3 of the pattern each and use upper body movement for 1/3 of the pattern), as they are the easier ones to determine.

And then the last tech panel member determines criteria #4 (were there two different combinations of difficult turns executed with clear rhythm).

Thank you for this information, now it is clear to me.

 

[BusyMom]

I would intentionally put my StepSequence right at the end and go sit in the kiss-n-cry laughing at the tech judge scrambling to figure out which edge I was on and single handedly delaying the event by 2mins hopefully intensifying the anxiousness of the next skater who is nervously awaiting their turn. Lol. I'm kidding of course but that's how my mind works. Sorry.

One problem with your scenario though, the choreographic sequence need to be after the step sequence. That give them at least 30-45 seconds extra time to scratch their head. Anyway, love how your mind work.

 

[leafygreens]

Sotnikova fulfills level 4 based on the isu definition. Bop is choosing to preset the rule In an anti sotnikova way because he hates her and her win

How is BoP "using the rule" against Adelina. Her step sequence was laid out, and so was the rule. There doesn't seem to be much room for opinion.

 

[bara1968]

the thread start is not a professional judge or specialist. and he/she only did this to Sotnikova, not anyone else. he/she is just making a subtle hate thread, but is still hate thread.

But Sot is the only one who got lv 4 stsq in both SP and LP in lady's event, and she is the only one who did so among three other ladies who did get lv 4 in LP, without being known for good stsq, i.e. she usually got lv 3 in most of the competitions during this season.

I do not find this a hate-thread at all. Reasonable fan will be instantly curious, whether she actually deserved that lv or not given the circumstances.

 

[gmyers]

How is BoP "using the rule" against Adelina. Her step sequence was laid out, and so was the rule. There doesn't seem to be much room for opinion.

This whole threads idea is based upon a reading of the rule that is meant to make it seem like sotnikova only deserved level 3. She got a level 4 and the rule supports giving a level 4. That's just based on all the elements of the step sequences listed by the op. if it was a fact that she deserved a level 3 step sequence and her triple toe was underrotated isu and ioc could without controversy change her score and take her gold away.

 

[bebevia]

This whole threads idea is based upon a reading of the rule that is meant to make it seem like sotnikova only deserved level 3. She got a level 4 and the rule supports giving a level 4. That's just based on all the elements of the step sequences listed by the op. if it was a fact that she deserved a level 3 step sequence and her triple toe was underrotated isu and ioc could without controversy change her score and take her gold away.

You keep saying that Sotnikova fits all criteria, yet insist it's time consuming and useless to analyse every single aspect of it. The amount of your postings in this thread up to now is longer than the OP; I think it's about time you do the same thing as the OP, so that you can stop saying BoP is wrong and actually support your opinion.

 

[gmyers]

You keep saying that Sotnikova fits all criteria, yet insist it's time consuming and useless to analyse every single aspect of it. The amount of your postings in this thread up to now is longer than the OP; I think it's about time you do the same thing as the OP, so that you can stop saying BoP is wrong and actually support your opinion.

Eveything bop did supports my opinion

 

[bsfan]

There is no such thing as a "professional judge or specialist". No one is paid (unless covertly)

I was refering to professional knowledge, not pay. to make it clear. I don't think anyone can do the job right just because they volunteer to do so. One has to pass certain tests.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Perhaps we could change the title of the thread to "Was it level three or four?" since there is a genuine disagreement on whether it was 3 or 4 (in addition to the fact the technical panel rated it a 4).

 

[capcomeback]

Perhaps we could change the title of the thread to "Was it level three or four?" since there is a genuine disagreement on whether it was 3 or 4 (in addition to the fact the technical panel rated it a 4).

So far both people who analyzed the steps/turns are in agreement in as much as the tech panel was too forgiving and did not seem to carefully check on some shaky elements. BoP is positive she should have received a level three, GKelly while seeing how it might have been possible for her to receive a level four, seems to agree that the panel made some questionable calls and were likely too generous. Is this fair, gentlemen?

Either way, it seems likely that Adelina did not receive the same scrutiny on her steps and turns as other skaters did.

 

[kslr0816]

This whole threads idea is based upon a reading of the rule that is meant to make it seem like sotnikova only deserved level 3. She got a level 4 and the rule supports giving a level 4. That's just based on all the elements of the step sequences listed by the op. if it was a fact that she deserved a level 3 step sequence and her triple toe was underrotated isu and ioc could without controversy change her score and take her gold away.

it seems like the only people who disagree with BoP's interpretation of the rule are you and DMD. That doesn't make you wrong, but it does make you probably wrong.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

it seems like the only people who disagree with BoP's interpretation of the rule are you and DMD. That doesn't make you wrong, but it does make you probably wrong.

Many people who might agree don't care enough to comment on yet another Adelina bashing thread started to "uncover the truth"

Regardless, gkelly's analysis makes clear that some of BoP's calls are open to interpretation. Further, expecting the three member tech panel, in 30 seconds, to analyze the steps in depth as BoP and gkelly have done and come out with the right result every time is not going to happen when the steps are as intricate as they are now. If this conversation were about whether changes need to be made to improve the accuracy of calls, rather than "uncovering the truth" to stir up more drama, it would likely be a more fruitful discussion.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Many people who might agree don't care enough to comment on yet another Adelina bashing thread started to "uncover the truth"

Nobody else agrees because everyone who actually participates in the sport knows I am correct. You're just rambling on and on as if you know more than people who have put much of their lives into actually participating in and studying the sport. This thread is indeed about uncovering the truth and there are is no bashing of Adelina going on. She did what she did on the ice and it is being analyzed. Why are you so defensive?

Further, expecting the three member tech panel, in 30 seconds, to analyze the steps in depth as BoP and gkelly have done and come out with the right result every time is not going to happen when the steps are as intricate as they are now.

They have more than 30 seconds to do it.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

So far both people who analyzed the steps/turns are in agreement in as much as the tech panel was too forgiving and did not seem to carefully check on some shaky elements. BoP is positive she should have received a level three, GKelly while seeing how it might have been possible for her to receive a level four, seems to agree that the panel made some questionable calls and were likely too generous. Is this fair, gentlemen?

Either way, it seems likely that Adelina did not receive the same scrutiny on her steps and turns as other skaters did.

"Too forgiving" and "too generous" are relative terms, and Adelina critics care little about whether she actually "did not receive the same scrutiny on her steps" as other skaters. You can't answer any of these questions without doing the same analysis on the others. Maybe she was scored generously on the steps but one can't say so without looking at what other skaters did.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Nobody else agrees because everyone who actually participates in the sport knows I am correct.

I have seen few experts go on the record corroborating your analysis, and the tech panel came up with a different result also. So "everyone who actually participates in the sport" doesn't agree on this. I'm not the one being defensive, I try to stay on topic rather than asserting I'm correct because other people can't read English or they are fat.

You can't even admit that you added a comma to an unclear rule to make it clearer in a way that emphasizes your interpretation. If the rule was clear why even bother adding the comma?

 

[PlaysInTheDirt]

Many people who might agree don't care enough to comment on yet another Adelina bashing thread started to "uncover the truth"

I don't have a dog in this race, but just have to say as an observer that it's ridiculous how some of you insist that this is an Adelina bashing thread. She didn't judge herself, did she???? She merely skated. And not once has BoP, or those who agree with him, blamed her for the scores.

For some of you, questioning the scores = bashing your girl. That's odd. Try not to take this thread so personally, nobody is bashing the skater, they're merely wondering how her performance was scored.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

For some of you, questioning the scores = bashing your girl. That's odd. Try not to take this thread so personally, nobody is bashing the skater, they're merely wondering how her performance was scored.

To call her steps "sloppy" when 8/9 judges scored it +2 or +3, to suggest her choreography was bad when 8/9 judges scored it 9+ is more than wondering how her performance was scored. Being told you can't read or that Tara Lipinski is fat are attacks that are quite personal in nature.