The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 196 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

Sam-Skwantch said:
Do not feed the troll!!
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I hope you're not reffering to me :) I'm not trolling, honest!

Sam-Skwantch said:
This thread has resorted to nonsense. Putin had decided to rig the results after the hockey loss even though it was planned months in advance. Yulia has worse spins than Yuna. Adelina is best friends with Putin and that is why she won which doesn't contradict the hockey loss theory In any way at all. DMD is Bill Clinton's best friend. I am Kwans favorite too. Anyone who disagrees is ignorant..,see the post up top. I'm "A"!!!:yay:
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Oh. So many truth in just one post :eek:
 
Snow63 said:
Oh. So many truth in just one post :eek:
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I forgot this little one too. Yulia's I-spin is great but her sit spin (cannonball/broken leg variation )isn't....even though they are in the same combination that leads to her I-spin. :confused:
 
cuon_alpinus said:
Did you know that Putin attended ladies team event? He also attended ladies free skating and watched the whole game sitting next to Cinquanta. And yeah, I am sure his agenda was too busy for attending these event right? Putin surely affected this ladies figure skating and russia really needed a gold medal after losing men's hockey against usa. But I can understand those judges' decision, because they might have been killed if they rebel. But if you listen to him, putin and isu would award them. You really don't have any idea how cruel and greedy Putin is. You don't have to cover for his ***, because the whole world knows that he is a corrupted dictator and that those results in Sochi Olympic especially in figure skating was extremely unfair.
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You know, I find this funny. The whole world "knows" that Putin is a corrupt dictator EXCEPT the people that actually live in his country and probably know the most about him! :rofl::rofl:

I think Putin's anti-gay law is ridiculous and wrong but so far no one has been able to provide even a shred evidence that supports the notion that Putin is corrupt and rolling in money. The journalists talk and talk and talk but no one has proven anything. If it wasn't for Putin, Russia would have been broken up a la Yugoslavia and then robbed of all natural resources. I think that the FS results were TOTALLY UNFAIR but I don't think that Putin influenced them. The IJS is the problem and not Putin.
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
This thread has resorted to nonsense. Putin had decided to rig the results after the hockey loss even though it was planned months in advance. Yulia has worse spins than Yuna. Adelina is best friends with Putin and that is why she won which doesn't contradict the hockey loss theory In any way at all. DMD is Bill Clinton's best friend. I am Kwans favorite too. Anyone who disagrees is ignorant..,see the post up top. I'm "A"!!!:yay:
Click to expand...

Je t'aime :bow:
 
I think that's the point Anna..people can't prove anything by talking about skating here or they have limited knowledge regarding FS so they have resorted to attacking Putin. It is a very telling sign.

This thread may as well change its title to "the baseless accusations thread" and anyone disputing outlandish circumstantial evidence is ignorant. Some days I just wake up and can't resist. It's just so fascinating to see how one sided certain people can get.
 
I want transparent judging and small reforms to the selection process of judges. I'm all for that. To be honest though unless you ban all federations from judging(won't happen) it doesnt really matter if its the president of the federation or a former coach within. They are all going to prefer the style of skating they grew up around and I don't necessarily even see a problem with that---if the judging is transparent.

I'm not for people who don't know the basics of how a spin is scored/executed or how to interpret GOE bullets bringing in slander against a skater or world leader based on nothing. That is borderline bigotry to me! :mad: Sure it's suspicious that judges hug skaters. Sure it's suspicious that VP's are selected to judge at Olympic events. But people taking pictures of Putin and Adelina and saying..."see there.. I told you so" is ridiculous. They are poisoning the well. The discussion should start to involve other events too. Only using Sochi as an example to fix the process is very impractical. IMO we should pick random events and study the judging. The true heart of the sport. Use Sochi as the outlier it is and judge the sport as a whole.

My prediction..nothing will happen because the KSU either won't do anything or they will look foolish by only focusing on Yuna vs Adelina and not the entire judging process.

Is this a fair post? I feel like I just made a point or two and didn't use any circumstantial venomous slander.
 
Anna K. said:
Hi Putin fans,

in case people start too much talking about figure skating here and you get bored,

here's a link to a cute scientific article about Putin jokes created by Russians:
http://www.allrussias.com/jokes/putin_01.asp
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I seriously hope that you're not serious... I'm not a Putin "fan", I just don't think he bribed the judges... as for political jokes, us Canadians make fun of Harper all the time (I am Russian-Canadian), and the English make fun of the their government too... I seriously don't think it's an indicator of "freedom".
 
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usethis2 said:
Do you mean deceleration by "finish" and "stops"? Of course skaters have to stop spinning at some point. I am not certain of what you are referring to.

[/URL]
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I meant that in technical terms overall RPM of Yuna is lower than that of Yulia and this is especially visible towards the end of each rotation series, well, it's deceleration. For example, they have similar spin types in the first rotaion series in SP and both do 16 revolutions. But it takes Yuna 12 seconds to complete, and Yulia only 9: just measured.

In terms of difficulty you could take a look at their second series in SP. They both do upright spins. But again, if my eyes do not betray me, all Yuna's positions are very classical - these types of spins existed when I skated: in the seventies. Yulia on the other hand does the Biellmann the way nobody else does (as far as I can remember Biellmann in principle was a privilige of few before the 90s). I understand that Yuna injured her back but it is just about comparing two skaters at the specific moment of time. Don't know what happens to Yulia in the future and whether she will be able to keep her flexibility in the years to come. God helps her.
 
Miss Ice said:
And to my taste, contortionist gymnastic positions are not pleasing at all. Frankly I would watch Yuna or Mao do the I-spin any day over Yulia, just because their sophisticated figures make it very pleasing to the eye, even without the crazy extension. Yulia's spin is all about sheer flexibility, whereas the camel spin Yuna does requires insane balance on the blade. Since this is figure skating and not gymnastics, I'll take the latter any day. ;)
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It's always good to have the diversity of tastes and opinions, otherwise the life would be boring. The key thing is not to push personal opinions as the ultimate truth. And let the judges decide. If there are better and more objective procedures coming, I am all for it. But for the time being let the bitterness not darken the mind. I am personally longing for the next season - it's going to be very interesting. And I believe that Adelina will prove that she has come to stay.
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
Part 1 -> I want transparent judging and small reforms to the selection process of judges. I'm all for that. To be honest though unless you ban all federations from judging(won't happen) it doesnt really matter if its the president of the federation or a former coach within. They are all going to prefer the style of skating they grew up around and I don't necessarily even see a problem with that---if the judging is transparent.

Part 2 -> I'm not for people who don't know the basics of how a spin is scored/executed or how to interpret GOE bullets bringing in slander against a skater or world leader based on nothing. That is borderline bigotry to me! :mad: Sure it's suspicious that judges hug skaters. Sure it's suspicious that VP's are selected to judge at Olympic events. But people taking pictures of Putin and Adelina and saying..."see there.. I told you so" is ridiculous. They are poisoning the well. The discussion should start to involve other events too. Only using Sochi as an example to fix the process is very impractical. IMO we should pick random events and study the judging. The true heart of the sport. Use Sochi as the outlier it is and judge the sport as a whole.

Part 3 -> My prediction..nothing will happen because the KSU either won't do anything or they will look foolish by only focusing on Yuna vs Adelina and not the entire judging process.

Part 4 -> Is this a fair post? I feel like I just made a point or two and didn't use any circumstantial venomous slander.
Click to expand...

I took the freedom to edit your post or order to show which part of my long gkelly style answer belongs where.

Part 1
This is a realistic wish. I’d say this is exactly what might happen if Cinquanta leaves before term. Take it as my prediction.

Part 2
I’m not sure what you mean saying “I’m not for people who…” but I hope there’s no unrealistic wish behind it. Sports go hand-in-hand with politics and accordingly with world leaders who take the headlines for whatever reason. This is not going away. Of course, I realize that sometimes these passions result from little knowledge or a cultural misunderstanding but if we consider ourselves wise we can always explain things. Just think that you make the world better every time you do ;)

Part 3
Well, Korea is a small country. Russia is happy. Japan is happy. US and Canada have divided opinion. For the rest of the world, figure skating is just not worth it. Nothing should happen unless the divided opinion in US and Canada takes a turn. After Dick Button’s article, I nearly started to believe it’s realistically possible. For US and Canada, it’s all about money. This is one [less important] thing if the current judging system is preventing a particular athlete from getting an OGM; if it’s preventing the whole organization from getting more money, it’s a completely different matter.

Part 4
It depends if you want to get one or two reasonable answers or one or two pages of slur ;)




@AliceInWonderland:
Sorry, I have to disappoint you! Unfortunately, I’m always part serious when I write unserious stuff :)
 
Fantastic response. I appreciate the gkelly style answer too. You can sum up my "agenda" as I'm quite often accused of having in a simple phrase. Realistic discussion with fairness as the base. I've stated over and over that the judging process doesn't need a drastic overhaul. All we need is for the judges to explain their marks. I think that is fair. For example on any protocol sheet you would see this

3lz-3t +1 GOE bullets satisfied(1,6) notes: surprisingly fast set up and great flow throughout sequence with nice flow out.

Even if we disagree we at least see why the judge awarded bullets to the jump. If we notice a bullet being abused the ISU could update the language accordingly upon request.
 
Miss Ice said:
And to my taste, contortionist gymnastic positions are not pleasing at all. Frankly I would watch Yuna or Mao do the I-spin any day over Yulia, just because their sophisticated figures make it very pleasing to the eye, even without the crazy extension. Yulia's spin is all about sheer flexibility, whereas the camel spin Yuna does requires insane balance on the blade. Since this is figure skating and not gymnastics, I'll take the latter any day. ;)
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Don't worry, you might have the chance to vote for your fav. spin&skater, and decide who should win.
Be patient, Cinquanta is thinking about that too.

I would love to see that happening, at least for one Olympic.
After the result we will have people fighting with each other. :popcorn:
That should make figure skating "popular" enough. :biggrin:
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
Fantastic response. I appreciate the gkelly style answer too. You can sum up my "agenda" as I'm quite often accused of having in a simple phrase. Realistic discussion with fairness as the base. I've stated over and over that the judging process doesn't need a drastic overhaul. All we need is for the judges to explain their marks. I think that is fair. For example on any protocol sheet you would see this

3lz-3t +1 GOE bullets satisfied(1,6) notes: surprisingly fast set up and great flow throughout sequence with nice flow out.

Even if we disagree we at least see why the judge awarded bullets to the jump. If we notice a bullet being abused the ISU could update the language accordingly upon request.
Click to expand...

Very good suggestions. I would totally vote for you as head of ISU ;)
 
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