Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

[FSGMT]

Zhulin said years ago when he trained them that the problem with Lena was that you had to be strict with her to make her work, her attention would wander or she wouldn't want to practice certain things, but in a way that was easier to deal with if you have a coach that can instill discipline. The issue with Nikita is that you have to coddle him a bit more, he always has to feel he's the strongest partner & is leading the team, and he can be very critical, both of himself & of everyone around him. And I guess when he's the one making the big mistakes, as he has been this season - botching the twizzles at NHK & the key points they didn't get there or at Nationals were on the man's steps, catching Elena's skate causing the fall at Russian nationals, twizzles at Worlds, (and even Euros, yes Elena fell but he was all over the place on the first two sets & he said later that had probably unsettled her) - if he still has that kind of attitude of needing to feel he's the best, it could make things very difficult in their partnership.

Just to be 100% fair, at Worlds the mistake was partially Elena's fault: (at 6:02 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D12GCikrSOE) after the first set of twizzles, her free skate touched his leg, making him lose his balance and not being able to perform the second set. It can be discussed if this was also because Nikita got too close to Elena, obviously. But, after all, it doesn't make all that difference, it was just to be precise

 

[bramweld]

Just to be 100% fair, at Worlds the mistake was partially Elena's fault: (at 6:02 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D12GCikrSOE) after the first set of twizzles, her free skate touched his leg, making him lose his balance and not being able to perform the second set. It can be discussed if this was also because Nikita got too close to Elena, obviously. But, after all, it doesn't make all that difference, it was just to be precise

Because he does not have good control of his twizzles and tends to drift widely. She was in her normal path. Go back to even their early days from 2009. Nikita knowing this should have ensured that he wasn't too close to her from the beginning. Let's face it Nikita is very good. But he has his flaws the most obvious being twizzles and his pride.

 

[bramweld]

^ The thread is waiting for your input!

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?50244-Victoria-Sinitsina-amp-Nikita-Katsalapov

I thought you were kidding!! I must say this forum is great for laughs at times.

 

[uhh]

Because he does not have good control of his twizzles and tends to drift widely. She was in her normal path. Go back to even their early days from 2009. Nikita knowing this should have ensured that he wasn't too close to her from the beginning. Let's face it Nikita is very good. But he has his flaws the most obvious being twizzles and his pride.

Yes, the twizzles are not in a straight line, after the 1st set they both are supposed to pull sharply to the left on a right back outside edge, but his exit is on a rather shallow & and uncontrolled edge which means he doesn't come round far enough to avoid her.

 

[bramweld]

Yes, the twizzles are not in a straight line, after the 1st set they both are supposed to pull sharply to the left on a right back outside edge, but his exit is on a rather shallow & and uncontrolled edge which means he doesn't come round far enough to avoid her.

Yeah, what uhh said

 

[OrdinaryDreamer]

Because he does not have good control of his twizzles and tends to drift widely. She was in her normal path. Go back to even their early days from 2009. Nikita knowing this should have ensured that he wasn't too close to her from the beginning. Let's face it Nikita is very good. But he has his flaws the most obvious being twizzles and his pride.

I know that it's hard to stay in control when doing any sort of spin, just due to the nature of the movement, but if he knows he drifts widely, then he should have done something to fix that a long time ago because there's too much of a risk for injury with any unpredictability, not to mention some sort of point deduction for sloppy execution. Perhaps his pride has gotten in the way of resolving that issue. Maybe he doesn't think the issue is as severe as it is in reality. I don't know, nobody can read minds.

 

[bsfan]

Zhulin said years ago when he trained them that the problem with Lena was that you had to be strict with her to make her work, her attention would wander or she wouldn't want to practice certain things, but in a way that was easier to deal with if you have a coach that can instill discipline. The issue with Nikita is that you have to coddle him a bit more, he always has to feel he's the strongest partner & is leading the team, and he can be very critical, both of himself & of everyone around him. And I guess when he's the one making the big mistakes, as he has been this season - botching the twizzles at NHK & the key points they didn't get there or at Nationals were on the man's steps, catching Elena's skate causing the fall at Russian nationals, twizzles at Worlds, (and even Euros, yes Elena fell but he was all over the place on the first two sets & he said later that had probably unsettled her) - if he still has that kind of attitude of needing to feel he's the best, it could make things very difficult in their partnership.

Then can I/Z go to Zhulin now or later? It seems that Zhulin can deal with Elena's problem. If I/Z have great protential, Zhulin can create great programs for them.

 

[uhh]

Then can I/Z go to Zhulin now or later? It seems that Zhulin can deal with Elena's problem. If I/Z have great protential, Zhulin can create great programs for them.

Things were quite acrimonious when I/K left, a lot was said in the press by Zhulin & Nikita blaming each other and Zhulin said he would never take them back. Maybe he'd be open to working with just one of them with a new partner, but he's already got M/K and B/S, so I don't know if I/Z would get all the attention they need as a new couple with him.

 

[OrdinaryDreamer]

Things were quite acrimonious when I/K left, a lot was said in the press by Zhulin & Nikita blaming each other and Zhulin said he would never take them back. Maybe he'd be open to working with just one of them with a new partner, but he's already got M/K and B/S, so I don't know if I/Z would get all the attention they need as a new couple with him.

Sounds like Nikita was more of the problem than Elena, in that situation, and, if that were so, maybe Zhulin would potentially consider working with Elena again, someday, if need be.

 

[BlackPack]

Obviously as a nosy spectator, I don't know what I'm reading is true or not, but rumors of immaturity, lack of work ethic, and Byzantine intrigues are persistent regarding I&K.

But seriously, while I think I&K are a very talented team, their entire senior career so far has been plagued either by crappy programs or flawed, error-filled skating. This is an instance where natural ability and deep edges don't mean **** if they can't pull it together.

I don't think their split is a huge loss to humanity.

I look forward to the many, many talented and exciting dance teams who do have their act together. I'm not really missing Voir and Marlie at all, because I know the next quad will be so fun to watch. I can't wait to see Cappellini and Lanotte, Weaver and Poje, Chock and Bates, Hurtado and Diaz, Gilles and Poirier, Paul and Islam, etc. grow and push each other.

 

[bramweld]

Quite rightly said BlackPack, the future is very bright for ice dance no matter what happens with these pairs. In fact I think it will be for the better of all concerned.

 

[pangtongfan]

I was actually worried I&K would totally dominate this quad and make it even more boring than the two team total dominance of V&M and D&W, and even started a thead inquiring on what others thought on the topic. So while I like them I cant deny to be relieved at some level of their split (while still dissapointed and sad to not see them again all the same, especialy when they were finally turning into the potential world beater people had long touted them to have the potential to be). Now I think we will see a pretty open and exciting quad with of the 5 major events, probably no team winning more than 2 of the 5. As long as Bobrova & Sloppov dont win any of the 5, everything will be perfect.

 

[sisinka]

As per the video can anyone say when this was or what he's saying?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMYo_RsyQHI

Date is not mentioned even once, a videos of programs are from TEB. There is no one word about World Champs, so it could be probably after Olympics. Nikita talks about hard work towards overall and towards the Olympics.

 

[sisinka]

http://itar-tass.com/sport/1123232

A representative from the Federation visited I/Z in training today, Kustarova said he wsa very pleased with what he saw & encouraged them to keep their focus.

From article...Mikhail Stifunin, the older (head) coach of Ice Dance in Russia visited Kustarova/Alexeeva’s group and saw Lena and Ruslan’s practise.
Kustarova says that after a practise head coach was satisfied, he told that Lena and Ruslan looked beautifully together, but he told that a work began only at that time. He recommended them to work in undisturbed mode, not to dissipate at anything. She also says that she is satisfied with first results, that sportsmen understand each other, there are no disbelieves.

 

[bluestar]

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/16830.html
...an interview with Elena Kustarova, Lena and Ruslan's coach...

“Practises of Lena and Ruslan are going very well. But they just begin – so it is too soon to judge. I can say yet that they are comfortable with each other, that they found a common language immediately. They have a common target – to win.“

This point I'm missing all the time during all discussions about good looking yes or no, good or bad: to be comfortable with each other. Though I/K were really fascinating to see at olympics and worlds I did not see really harmony between them during their performances, including gala.They were very vivacious, dynamic, fast, but what I saw, was that Lena was very concentrated on skating, maybe on herself. I did not see her looking at him very often (maybe I'm wrong). I think Russlan could be a good support to come back to fun, harmony, peace, overcome permanent struggling and concentrate on skating.

 

[hanca]

Though I/K were really fascinating to see at olympics and worlds I did not see really harmony between them during their performances, including gala.They were very vivacious, dynamic, fast, but what I saw, was that Lena was very concentrated on skating, maybe on herself. I did not see her looking at him very often (maybe I'm wrong). I think Russlan could be a good support to come back to fun, harmony, peace, overcome permanent struggling and concentrate on skating.

That's weird. I felt quite on the contrary. I loved how Elena and Nikita interacted together on the ice (throughout their career, including this season). It may have been just acting but it did make me believe so it looked real to me.

 

[bluestar]

That's weird. I felt quite on the contrary. I loved how Elena and Nikita interacted together on the ice (throughout their career, including this season). It may have been just acting but it did make me believe so it looked real to me.

This season seemed different to me, often so serious (Lena). In former seasons there was more smiling during performance by Lena, not by Nikita. I wondered what it was this year. Olympic stress maybe, pressure. But thinking of their argues, in that respect I think Lena can relax now. Maybe...
(Sorry sisinka for wrong quoting. I've been kicked out..)

 

[anyanka]

I was actually worried I&K would totally dominate this quad and make it even more boring than the two team total dominance of V&M and D&W, and even started a thead inquiring on what others thought on the topic. So while I like them I cant deny to be relieved at some level of their split (while still dissapointed and sad to not see them again all the same, especialy when they were finally turning into the potential world beater people had long touted them to have the potential to be). Now I think we will see a pretty open and exciting quad with of the 5 major events, probably no team winning more than 2 of the 5. As long as Bobrova & Sloppov dont win any of the 5, everything will be perfect.

It'll look more like the 2006-2010 quad, when V/M and D/W started off at the juniors and ended up dominating. During that time, Debreuil / Lauzon and Denkova / Staviski retired, Belbin / Agosto never quite got to the top, Dom / Shab were on and off with injuries, and then the pendulum appeared to swing to Delobel / Schoenfelder until her injury and then her pregnancy. Point being: I agree with you that this next quad will be more exciting!

 

[bluestar]

Ok, it's not getting better... Better to finish for today....:scratch:

 

[pangtongfan]

It'll look more like the 2006-2010 quad, when V/M and D/W started off at the juniors and ended up dominating. During that time, Debreuil / Lauzon and Denkova / Staviski retired, Belbin / Agosto never quite got to the top, Dom / Shab were on and off with injuries, and then the pendulum appeared to swing to Delobel / Schoenfelder until her injury and then her pregnancy. Point being: I agree with you that this next quad will be more exciting!

Yes I think it will be a quad alot like that one.