Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

[elif]

I think Scali is working with them mainly, but of course the politics will be handled by her. I think that's the main reason they went to her, and Scali maybe.
Zueva will concentrate on S&K, IMO, because they need to establish themselves in the top 10 (if not even top 5) ASAP. The NA's couples are not waiting for them.

Capellini/Lanotte need to establish themselves for number 1 too. Imagine critiques If they are not on the top after european and world titles season before. Why they did leave Igor?

 

[bramweld]

Capellini/Lanotte need to establish themselves for number 1 too. Imagine critiques If they are not on the top after european and world titles season before. Why they did leave Igor?

They won both of these titles by the skin of their teeth and at Europeans because of a mistake by I/K. So both them and W/P and maybe B/S will be in a tight race for the top spot. I think they're just trying to stake a claim on that spot. In the current state of ice dancing there are no guarantees for any elite pair. Things are more open. Remember they were only fourth in the FD at the last worlds.

 

[sisinka]

They are her newly added team. They were at Spilband before. But I agree that she will concentrate on C/L - to show Spilband that they are hers now.

I agree. I take a C&L’s jump to Zueva like a very tactic thing. Anna and Luca know very well that their titles were made with a huge good luck (which is not making their victory over their own nerves less valuable, but their main victory key was the fact that they were clean and others made mistakes). So if they want to keep a possibility for another world medal alive, they need to improve technically and suprise judges and fans with something interesting as well. And Zueva coached Olympic medalists 2014 (and she was one of two coaches of Olympic medalists in 2010 as well).

For Anna and Luca there is not much sense to be coached by somebody else but Zueva, because her name judges appreciate the most and Zueva herself (not big number of specialists Scali including) was the reason why they came to her group in my opinion. But it is very positive for Zueva as well, if she wants to have any world medalists this season, Anna and Luca are those with the highest chances from all her students.

Anna & Luca chose Dance Macabre, well, I was suprised with the choice, I take it like a difficult music to express, with lot of power, speed and big expressiveness needed. It would be hard even for couples who are naturally very expressive and dynamic. I am very curious what will the dance looks like. Of course there are expectations that reigning European and World Champions will come with difficult choreography also (much more difficult then last year when they were criticised for low speed, pooper edges, open skating and one-direction skating), I personally hope that they also improve in technique and will make their edges better. And using Dance Macabre – it will be very difficult to fulfill all of this. But why not to try? Very often winners were those who put everything on the table, not those careful ones.

But having such demands for improving technique and difficulty in choreo and being more expressive…it needs a full coach’s attention, top coach’s attention – this is Zueva in her group. The result of Italians will show Zueva’s work. She got the best couple looking at results into her hands and it is mainly on her to help them not to loose positions.

Btw I can’t imagine a situation that reigning European and World Champions will come to Zueva, who will teach them for five minutes and then send them for the rest of the day to Oleg and Massimo, because she has to teach other couples who need her work more!!!! - new couple (with no results yet) or Shibs (7th place at World Champs) or Reeds (18th place) or Aldridge & Eaton (17th place).

 

[Mattieu]

Anna & Luca chose Dance Macabre, well, I was suprised with the choice, I take it like a difficult music to express, with lot of power, speed and big expressiveness needed.

).

Anna and Luca have no trouble on the expressiveness front, they are fabulous on presentation, it's just the technical from Anna that is weak.

 

[sisinka]

I agree. I think the Federation is trying to treat both couples equally to give them chance to develop and show who will come on the top. Unfortunately some fans see in everything mistreatment of Elena/Ruslan. For example, Sinitsina-Katsalapov decided to train with Zueva whereas Elena-Ruslan decided to keep his coach. Fans are shouting how S/K are treated better (favouritism!!!) because their coach has better name and would probably be more expensive, but no one really knows why I/Z decided to stay with Ruslan's coaches and it is very likely that it was I/Z's decision. Hopefully they know what they are doing. in my opinion their coach may actually be better technician (considering how many junior world champions she brought up from nothing). Besides, they will be number 1 priority for their coach, whereas Zueva has also the Cappelini/Lanotte, and Shibutanis and plenty of other couples...

Different people can see things differently, but from the beginning I never had an opinion that both couples were treated equally.

The choice of coaches had nothing to do with a discussion which was here about Federation supporting more S&K than I&Z…
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...tsalapov-Split&p=954953&viewfull=1#post954953 …here I named the differences.

IF Russian Federation would treat both couples equally than they would:
1) confirmed both couples in one day in one article… in reality first confirmation in media for S&K was done in 19th of May, while I&Z were confirmed 5th of June…
2) announced financial support for both couples… in reality that was a straight confirmation for S&K only, name of I&Z was never noticed…(yes, they can get support as well….maybe)…
3) all skaters would be free to choose partners and come with new partnership…. in reality everybody was waiting for Nikita‘s decision who to skate with and until this time both Lena and Ruslan stayed in vacuum without having a chance to make their own decision
4) media would get the same amount of news from both camps…. in reality interviews with quotes from Zueva and S&K got to number 20, while Kustarova’s group with I&Z did 8 interviews plus one article about practise from Vaitsekhovskaya.
Since Olympic season 2014 all sportsmen’s interviews must come across the agreement of Russian Federation who can allow or delete what they want to, so their power over media is stronger than ever before.
20 interviews for S&K agains 8 interviews for I&Z??? While I&Z are sitting in Moscow and S&K in US which is less gettable for Russian journalists? At least 10 interviews with S&K were done while the couple or coach were still in US or again in US, not during those days of exhibition in Moscow.

But I hope that one day Russian Federation will stop influencing things in way they would prefer and really start to treat both couples equally.

 

[sisinka]

I'm sorry if I appear unknowing now, but please forgive me, since I'm not that well informed about Dance:
I would be very thankfull if someone took the time to answer this question :

How on earth come that
1) Nikita was the one to leave Elena and not the other way around?? 9 out of 10 times ( exeption are Euros2014) I've seen them miss out on points or a medal it was due to a mistake made by Nikita! He more often than not missed his twizzles, best example are worlds 2014. She never had any hard feelings because of that, supported him and so on ... I also think she was the one who brought Swan Lake to life, all the commentators on TV were just gushing over her expressiveness and posture and so on, not only in this programm.. Sinitsina always appeard more like a robot to me :/ So why ??

2) Why does the federation favour S/K ?? It was stupid of both of these pairs to exchange partners, but to me Ruslan was the stronger one while he was with Sinitsina... and in the beginning nobody supported the split and since they are all aware that Katsalapov and partly Sinitsina caused it.. why are they being awarded for it?
Why is Russia so in love with Nikita? Only category in which he is "Best in the world" to me are looks ?!

So could maybe someone explain this to me ?

I worry that even Nikita himself and Russian Federation would be in trouble to give you straight answers (hopefully at least they know answers for your questions in their minds)

1) Nikita never explained why he left Lena…as to twizzles he was the one making mistakes most of time, as to lifts she was the one making mistakes most of time…

2) I don’t know. Maybe because of Zueva. Russian Federation always dreamed about Zueva training their couple. Rumours say that from unknown reasons Federation expected that Zueva / Sphilband will work for free, because it would be a kind of “between Russians“ help, but in reality those coaches were very expensive and living in US is expensive as well, so getting some Russians students there appeared to be a pretty difficult thing. Finally Khoklova got into Zueva / Sphilband’s group but it didn’t last for long.

 

[sisinka]

I do believe that it was completely I/Z's choice to stay with Kustarova. Ruslan is probably satisfied with continuing to have her as a coach and maybe Elena wants to try having a woman coach after Zhulin and Morozov. Perhaps, she wanted to have a new experience and see if having Kustarova would give a different perspective to their skating. Also, not everyone wants to leave Russia and go to the US which is very far away. By doing so, she would miss her friends and family. Sinitsina/Katsalapov were ok with that but not everyone wants to move so far away.

Both Nikita and Lena mentioned in recent interviews that they worked with Kustarova when Morozov didn’t have time and that they both were very satisfied with the cooperation. As I remember Nikita said that Kustarova helped them with Polka. I think that even during Olympic season she helped them but I am not sure.
Morozov was never very open in saying which specialists he asked for help and how much they helped.

(From rumours from Russian Forum - Kustarova was one of Nikita's options as well, but then he changed to Zueva.)

 

[hanca]

While I can understand that I/Z might prefer to stay in Russia as opposed to moving to another country, I would LOVE to see what someone like Krylova could do for them

So do I but at this moment we have to believe that they know what they are doing.

 

[hanca]

(From rumours from Russian Forum - Kustarova was one of Nikita's options as well, but then he changed to Zueva.)

Well, he couldn't go very well to Kustarova, considering that he destroyed Kustarova's work of the last few years by splitting the highest Kustarova's couple!

 

[hanca]

Different people can see things differently, but from the beginning I never had an opinion that both couples were treated equally.

The choice of coaches had nothing to do with a discussion which was here about Federation supporting more S&K than I&Z…
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...tsalapov-Split&p=954953&viewfull=1#post954953 …here I named the differences.

IF Russian Federation would treat both couples equally than they would:


1) confirmed both couples in one day in one article… in reality first confirmation in media for S&K was done in 19th of May, while I&Z were confirmed 5th of June…
2) announced financial support for both couples… in reality that was a straight confirmation for S&K only, name of I&Z was never noticed…(yes, they can get support as well….maybe)…
3) all skaters would be free to choose partners and come with new partnership…. in reality everybody was waiting for Nikita‘s decision who to skate with and until this time both Lena and Ruslan stayed in vacuum without having a chance to make their own decision
4) media would get the same amount of news from both camps…. in reality interviews with quotes from Zueva and S&K got to number 20, while Kustarova’s group with I&Z did 8 interviews plus one article about practise from Vaitsekhovskaya.
Since Olympic season 2014 all sportsmen’s interviews must come across the agreement of Russian Federation who can allow or delete what they want to, so their power over media is stronger than ever before.
20 interviews for S&K agains 8 interviews for I&Z??? While I&Z are sitting in Moscow and S&K in US which is less gettable for Russian journalists? At least 10 interviews with S&K were done while the couple or coach were still in US or again in US, not during those days of exhibition in Moscow.

But I hope that one day Russian Federation will stop influencing things in way they would prefer and really start to treat both couples equally.

I am really sorry, but what's wrong here is not what the Russian Federation is saying but what you are interpreting! For example, the fact that S/K were announced in 19th of May, while I&Z were confirmed 5th of June…it can be caused by not the Federation favouring on couple, but bu I and Z not knowing what the heck is going on. Katsalapov was the one calling the shots, so neither Elena nor Ruslan knew if their partner is coming back, so it is understandable that they were in no hurry of announcing a new couple because they did not know what Sinistsina and Katsalapov's decision will be.

The same with all your other points. It is not a sign that the Federation is favoring one couple. All it meant was that the I/Z were not the ones making the decisions and therefore they were always one step behind S/K. They couldn't make any plans if they didn't know what S/K's plans were while S/K had their try out.
So whatever seems to be favoritism doesn't really mean much when they all meet at international competition with international judges. And trust me, the Russian Federation wants the results and they don't care who they come from, so they have no reason to push one couple to the detriment of the other couple. the chances are that they will let them fight with each other internationally, stand back, watch and support the stronger one.

 

[elif]

So whatever seems to be favoritism doesn't really mean much when they all meet at international competition with international judges. And trust me, the Russian Federation wants the results and they don't care who they come from, so they have no reason to push one couple to the detriment of the other couple. the chances are that they will let them fight with each other internationally, stand back, watch and support the stronger one.

I lost all my trust to ''international competitions with international judges'' after Cup of Russia 2013. We will see

They won both of these titles by the skin of their teeth and at Europeans because of a mistake by I/K. So both them and W/P and maybe B/S will be in a tight race for the top spot. I think they're just trying to stake a claim on that spot. In the current state of ice dancing there are no guarantees for any elite pair. Things are more open. Remember they were only fourth in the FD at the last worlds.

But Igor could have help them too. Look at the new rules with partial step sequence in short dance, two types (A-B) of step sequences, lift/spin/twizzle rule changes. Igor usually very good with levels, especially after big changes like this year.

 

[bramweld]

I lost all my trust to ''international competitions with international judges'' after Cup of Russia 2013. We will see



But Igor could have help them too. Look at the new rules with partial step sequence in short dance, two types (A-B) of step sequences, lift/spin/twizzle rule changes. Igor usually very good with levels, especially after big changes like this year.

You have a point but maybe its a risk they're willing to take. I would have thought that they would have gone with Krylova and co. But given that Massimo left maybe there was no motivation to go that route. They will also have Margalio so maybe its a matter of getting a fresh image while also being comfortable.

 

[sisinka]

I am really sorry, but what's wrong here is not what the Russian Federation is saying but what you are interpreting! For example, the fact that S/K were announced in 19th of May, while I&Z were confirmed 5th of June…it can be caused by not the Federation favouring on couple, but bu I and Z not knowing what the heck is going on. Katsalapov was the one calling the shots, so neither Elena nor Ruslan knew if their partner is coming back, so it is understandable that they were in no hurry of announcing a new couple because they did not know what Sinistsina and Katsalapov's decision will be.

The same with all your other points. It is not a sign that the Federation is favoring one couple. All it meant was that the I/Z were not the ones making the decisions and therefore they were always one step behind S/K. They couldn't make any plans if they didn't know what S/K's plans were while S/K had their try out.

Thanks to a fact that Alexeeva and Kustarova told openly in interview in April that they are waiting for Nikita and Vika’s explanation and final decision to let them (and Lena and Ruslan) solved everything what was needed, I don’t take it that Lena and Ruslan were not interested in things and just waited until Nikita‘s decision. They wanted to know as fast as possible how is situation looking like. But until Nikita‘s final decision both Lena and Ruslan had to wait. And why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide? How about Lena and Ruslan? After all those lies and unexpected surprises from Nikita and Vika, do you think that both Lena and Ruslan just waited and prayed that their partners would come back? After all of this? If they really wanted their partners back than they would never make a couple with each other and they would never prepared new programs so soon. Once Nikita decided to split a destroy another couple, all other three skaters should be free to make their decisions, they are all human ones with the same right, not Nikita on the first place and then others. This was not equal as well. And thanks to the fact that he was the one who caused all this situation, it was surprising that he was allowed to play the main role for whole time.

Sorry, but first Larionov told that he finished with Vera, than Mozer announced it and finally then Very had something so say – in this irder how it happened. And the same for S&K and I&Z. All confirmed info comes from Russian Fed or from coaches who has and agreement of Russian Fed to spean openly. It really means that while S&K were announced like new couple and I&Z were announced a half months later – it came from Russian Fed members heads, it was not a media mistake.

 

[sisinka]

So whatever seems to be favoritism doesn't really mean much when they all meet at international competition with international judges. And trust me, the Russian Federation wants the results and they don't care who they come from, so they have no reason to push one couple to the detriment of the other couple. the chances are that they will let them fight with each other internationally, stand back, watch and support the stronger one.

As to international judges – I must say that sometimes they are a very kind people. I heard on my own ears that during TEB 2013 members of Russian Fed and Russian officials were repeatedly talking to judges and asking them for good marks for the Russian Ice Dance couple using arguments that the couple needs great marks because the Olympics is in Sochi, in their home town, so they really need to have good results. And as we know the couple put very good performances, which was great, but some mistake was ignored by technical specialist and their marks surprisingly raised since NHK one week ago. And to my shock the person speaking there was one of judges who travelled there. So, that‘s international judging.

 

[hanca]

Thanks to a fact that Alexeeva and Kustarova told openly in interview in April that they are waiting for Nikita and Vika’s explanation and final decision to let them (and Lena and Ruslan) solved everything what was needed, I don’t take it that Lena and Ruslan were not interested in things and just waited until Nikita‘s decision. They wanted to know as fast as possible how is situation looking like. But until Nikita‘s final decision both Lena and Ruslan had to wait. And why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide? How about Lena and Ruslan? After all those lies and unexpected surprises from Nikita and Vika, do you think that both Lena and Ruslan just waited and prayed that their partners would come back? After all of this? If they really wanted their partners back than they would never make a couple with each other and they would never prepared new programs so soon. Once Nikita decided to split a destroy another couple, all other three skaters should be free to make their decisions, they are all human ones with the same right, not Nikita on the first place and then others. This was not equal as well. And thanks to the fact that he was the one who caused all this situation, it was surprising that he was allowed to play the main role for whole time.

I am not sure whether you have problems with comprehension, or where the problems is, but you completely missed the point. Let's explain it again:
I am not saying that Lena and Ruslan were sitting around doing nothing, they were obviously skating together, but at the same time they were waiting what will be the news from Sinitsina/Katsalapov. They did not know whether their old partners will come back or whether this is not permanent move. (I am not saying they were praying for the partners to come back, but common sense would probably win over their feelings). So that would make them approach the Federation much later than Sinitsina/Katsalapov who actually knew that they are not coming back. While Lena and Ruslan were waiting for Sinitsina/Katsalapov to make up their mind, Sinitsina/Katsalapov approached the Federation and requested to be recognised as a new couple. The Federation announced them. As soon as Lena and Ruslan found out that this is it, they approached the Federation and the Federation announced them too. The Russian Federation could not announce Lena and Ruslan BEFORE Lena and Ruslan approached the Federation, and Lena and Ruslan did not approach the Federation earlier because they did not know what the outcome of the S/K's trial will be.

In regards to your question why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide, well, Elena was willing to skate with him, and he was not willing to skate with her. That gave him the power. (No, it is not fair, but it all depended on his decision whether he will skate with her or not).

 

[uhh]

I am not sure whether you have problems with comprehension, or where the problems is, but you completely missed the point. Let's explain it again:
I am not saying that Lena and Ruslan were sitting around doing nothing, they were obviously skating together, but at the same time they were waiting what will be the news from Sinitsina/Katsalapov. They did not know whether their old partners will come back or whether this is not permanent move. (I am not saying they were praying for the partners to come back, but common sense would probably win over their feelings). So that would make them approach the Federation much later than Sinitsina/Katsalapov who actually knew that they are not coming back. While Lena and Ruslan were waiting for Sinitsina/Katsalapov to make up their mind, Sinitsina/Katsalapov approached the Federation and requested to be recognised as a new couple. The Federation announced them. As soon as Lena and Ruslan found out that this is it, they approached the Federation and the Federation announced them too. The Russian Federation could not announce Lena and Ruslan BEFORE Lena and Ruslan approached the Federation, and Lena and Ruslan did not approach the Federation earlier because they did not know what the outcome of the S/K's trial will be.
In regards to your question why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide, well, Elena was willing to skate with him, and he was not willing to skate with her. That gave him the power. (No, it is not fair, but it all depended on his decision whether he will skate with her or not).

This is not true. I/Z skated for the Federation's representative in April, he recommended that their partnership was approved then. It was not at all dependent on what Nikita & Viktoria chose. Once S/K went to Zueva, the issue was not getting I/K back together because that was not an option, the only consideration was would I/Z & S/K work out as new couples or did they need to look further afield for other partners.

The Federation didn't officially approve any of the new partnerships until the end of May, which is when the funding year ends. Lena & Ruslan weren't left waiting for their partners decisions, they were off preparing for the new season with Averbukh, and by that point it wasn't all in Nikita's hands because Elena would not have taken him back. The teams were approved at the same time with the same funding, you can see from the committee meetings notes of the RFSF on their website. You just hear about S/K more because Kustarova prefers to focus on the training on the ice rather than getting her teams mentioned in every sports media outlet.

 

[hanca]

The Federation didn't officially approve any of the new partnerships until the end of May, which is when the funding year ends. Lena & Ruslan weren't left waiting for their partners decisions, they were off preparing for the new season with Averbukh, and by that point it wasn't all in Nikita's hands because Elena would not have taken him back. The teams were approved at the same time with the same funding, you can see from the committee meetings notes of the RFSF on their website. You just hear about S/K more because Kustarova prefers to focus on the training on the ice rather than getting her teams mentioned in every sports media outlet.

Look at the earlier Kustarova's interviews. she stated that they can't make any decisions until they know what the outcome is. Elena and Ruslan were skating together, but until May they did not know whether this is permanent swap. They were working on their programs etc because it would be silly not to, but they were working while not knowing what the decision will be.

 

[bramweld]

In the end Lena and Rus got their act together, it would seem, regardless of the perception of favoritism for S/K. While S/K's handlers have been talking to the press it would seem almost profusely, inclusive of Nikita patting himself on the back, I/Z's camp has just been more quiet. Others have been praising them. I get the sense that they plan to do all their talking on the ice. I don't think we should be overly concerned until we see them and how they're rewarded on the GP circuit.

 

[uhh]

Look at the earlier Kustarova's interviews. she stated that they can't make any decisions until they know what the outcome is. Elena and Ruslan were skating together, but until May they did not know whether this is permanent swap. They were working on their programs etc because it would be silly not to, but they were working while not knowing what the decision will be.

She was referring to funding, because they did not know if they were added to the national team or not until the end of May & so they didn't know which specialists they can afford to bring in & so on. Not whether they could skate together at all, the Federation was happy from the test skate they did in April, and neither they nor the RFSF were leaving their future in the hands of Nikita.

 

[bramweld]

She was referring to funding, because they did not know if they were added to the national team or not until the end of May & so they didn't know which specialists they can afford to bring in & so on. Not whether they could skate together at all, the Federation was happy from the test skate they did in April, and neither they nor the RFSF were leaving their future in the hands of Nikita.

We really ought to stop giving Nikita credit for such boorish behaviour. I don't believe for one minute the fed is going to be influenced by Zueva to support S/K more highly than I/Z unless the work warrants it. Nikita I firmly believe now greatly embarrassed certain persons in the russian ice dance community by how he handled things with Lena and by extension Ruslan. He came across as excessively ruthless and insensitive. IMHO, these are not the qualities of a great champion. If I were in Lena's shoes I wouldn't know how to appreciate the medals from Sochi in light of how things went down. IMHO, I would want to lay them aside and develop a new partnership geared at not only winning, but also being able to enjoy the fruits of such hard work. Lena and Roos have an excess of motivation, I don't think this should be overlooked.