State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[Violet Bliss]

Doing Challenger events is certainly not an indication of greatness or high ranking.

 

[TMC]

Doing Challenger events is certainly not an indlication of greatness or high ranking.

Of course, but it could be worse

 

[lcd]

The depth and competitiveness amongst the men IS helping, in my opinion, to raise the level of everyone's game. Having so many athletes essentially "stay in" for more than one Olympic Cycle (in Jeremy's case, the start of a third - I know, who knows what his longer term plans are beyond this season) but for many of the other veterans like Ricky and Adam and Max and Ross (hope I'm not forgetting anyone from this tranche), they are reaching their peak years and pushing each other. AND with 3 spots up for grabs for the World (and Four Continents) teams, I think this will continually to (hopefully) keep things on a strong positive move for the US men overall. I'm optimistic. Depth and competitiveness are key.

 

[samson]

Just checked the challenger series schedule. This coming weekend we have Ross Miner and Alexander Johnson both competing. Two men who are the mend from last seasons injuries and are both hopefully growing and improving since their last appearances in the challenger series.

I think Ross has a chance to win this one if he is staying on track with his training. His triple axel looks like it's returned for him - but certainly I think he'll have some good competition from Kevin Reynolds and Nam Nguyen both of whom are capable of outscoring what Ross posted in Salt Lake, but that was also five weeks ago.

I hope Alexander has also been able to improve. I love his skating and his programs, and it would be great to see him on the podium or at the very least be building off of his scores in Nebelhorn.

 

[noskates]

I thought Adam's LP started out kind of tentative but then about halfway through you could see him really getting into the music and he looked like he was more over his skates. I think nerves get to him but he certainly looks good on the ice. Of all the men I think he is the most graceful and mature in his choreography. It seemed like he was skating with a little more speed than usual, too, but that could have been the music.

I would really like to see Ricky Dornbush do well this season. He always seems to get the yips though. I saw him do an exhibition piece last year and he was not only hilarious, he has quite a personality on the ice. Would like to see that come out in his competitive programs.

ICD - don't leave Jason Brown out of that equation!!!! Even without the quad he is the most reliable and most consistent of all the men you named!!!

 

[apgold]

I thought Adam's LP started out kind of tentative but then about halfway through you could see him really getting into the music and he looked like he was more over his skates. I think nerves get to him but he certainly looks good on the ice. Of all the men I think he is the most graceful and mature in his choreography. It seemed like he was skating with a little more speed than usual, too, but that could have been the music.

I actually applauded after watching Adam's FS on YT. Rather than fall apart in the latter half of the program, he seemed to get stronger and had more confidence in his jumps. He easily won the FS, and I wish he had done better in his SP so he could've gotten the gold. Keeping my fingers crossed for him to have a great season.

I think the top US men have great potential this season and look forward to seeing them develop Just wish that Jeremy Abbott had retired last season!

 

[Jammers]

I actually applauded after watching Adam's FS on YT. Rather than fall apart in the latter half of the program, he seemed to get stronger and had more confidence in his jumps. He easily won the FS, and I wish he had done better in his SP so he could've gotten the gold. Keeping my fingers crossed for him to have a great season.

I think the top US men have great potential this season and look forward to seeing them develop Just wish that Jeremy Abbott had retired last season!

Jeremy seems to be holding onto past glories.

 

[Violet Bliss]

What would Jeremy's staying or retiring have to do with the prospects of other U.S. Men other than there being one fewer competitor for the National podium? If he takes any available spot for any international competition, it would be because he has earned it. Better to wish US skaters to develop well and to do well in international events they participate in.

 

[StitchMonkey]

What would Jeremy's staying or retiring have to do with the prospects of other U.S. Men other than there being one fewer competitor for the National podium? If he takes any available spot for any international competition, it would be because he has earned it. Better to wish US skaters to develop well and to do well in international events they participate in.

It has a few things (and please note none of these are intended as a Jeremy should go away type thing) to do with it.

One, up and coming skaters have one more old guard to compete with at home, and that affects how they train/compete. Some skaters may stay juniors a year longer with so much depth right now at the top. Like wise, Jeremy, oldest of the old guard, and Jason, the hot new thing, are both more artistic/PCS skaters than they are tech/jumper skaters. That may lead to more skaters in the USA at least training in that direction.

It also means it is one less slot that someone else can take to learn and get experience and exposure. Right now the USA guys have a fight ahead of them at nationals as to who gets the world spots. The more you give the older seasoned ones another chance, the less you give the raising stars a chance to learn. Realistically Jeremy might be the least likely to make it to another Olympics given his age (although he maybe be getting to the point that it starts to shoehorn back around and if he can make it this long. . . maybe he has a better shot of making it than a 25 year old) how much do you let that factor into who goes. How many last chances does he get at the expense of someone else getting to learn from the experiences? Jason, Joshua, even Max have pretty decent shots at lasting till 2018 age wise, at what point do you start to want to give them experience and chances for judges to get to know them?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Whatever Jeremy or any legitimate skater does, it is not on anyone else's expense. All skaters trains hard at high costs, financially and in many other aspects, and they all deserve their fair chances by earning them. The right way to make Jeremy go away and give up any spot is for other skaters to be better than he is. Has any American Man ever given up their earned spot or career voluntarily for Jeremy or any other Man skater?

It is called competition.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Whatever Jeremy or any legitimate skater does, it is not on anyone else's expense. All skaters trains hard at high costs, financially and in many other aspects, and they all deserve their fair chances by earning them. The right way to make Jeremy go away and give up any spot is for other skaters to be better than he is. Has any American Man ever given up their earned spot or career voluntarily for Jeremy or any other Man skater?

It is called competition.

Of course it is, how else would you beat people except at their expense?

Being at someone else's expense does not mean it is unfair. If Jeremy wins nationals and goes to world, of course he earned it and and deserves it and good for him and I would not tell him to go away. I do still think that in reality, his being there means someone else can't go. That is how this thing works.

Being ok with beating your friends and costing them their win is part of being a competitor. It is not wrong or unfair, but frankly it seems silly to pretend that someone is not losing out.

 

[centerpt1]

Jeremy got that 3rd slot for the US men. (something others have not been able to do recently)

If our up and comers can't beat a washed up 30 y/o at Nationals - they haven't a chance at a World Podium.

That said, I see on twitter that Jeremy spent the summer working on bio-mechanics and re-tooling his technique. That worries me- it didn't work so well for Mao. Very worried for him this season.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Losers lose at their own expense. Why should other skaters be given an unfair break at Jeremy's or any other competitor's expense? If an American skater will only get to compete internationally or at Worlds because a better American is forced out, will this skater get any better result for the US? Better let them be spurred on by an old stubborn skater hanging on, or let them make the old geezer realize his winning days are bygone.

Another way a skate with no hope of representing the US can go to Worlds is to switch nationality. Has any such skater ever seem able to medal for the US?

 

[karne]

I am in two minds about this. My opinion about comebacks in these kinds of sports is that it's not the old guy's fault the young guys aren't good enough to beat him.

But we are also talking about someone who is much more likely to have a great Nationals, get on the Worlds team and be a total waste of a spot there. So...

 

[Violet Bliss]

I am in two minds about this. My opinion about comebacks in these kinds of sports is that it's not the old guy's fault the young guys aren't good enough to beat him.

But we are also talking about someone who is much more likely to have a great Nationals, get on the Worlds team and be a total waste of a spot there. So...

Well, that is the US system of selection, without taking consideration of the skaters' international results. That said, skaters not named Jeremy Abbott have not exactly shone at Worlds recently.

 

[karne]

Well, that is the US system of selection, without taking consideration of the skaters' international results. That said, skaters not named Jeremy Abbott have not exactly shone at Worlds.

I can't think of anyone else you can just about set your watch by bombing...

 

[Mrs. P]

Speaking of Jeremy, he had a media teleconference call today. Some tweets:

U.S. Figure Skating ‏@USFigureSkating
"It's been a long summer but am happy with my progress. I'm excited to go out and put it all together on home ice."-@jeremyabbottpcf #SA2014

U.S. Figure Skating ‏@USFigureSkating
"The goal is to medal at every competition. This is only my 2nd chance at #SA2014 and I'd love to take home a medal." -@jeremyabbottpcf

Lynn Rutherford
‏@LynnRutherford
As usual @jeremyabbottpcf gives great @USFigureSkating teleconf. Describes FS as "Back to basics, all about the connection of blade to ice."

Lynn Rutherford @LynnRutherford
More @jeremyabbottpcf teleconf: He spent much of summer working on biomechanics & rebuilding technique: "My skating has a different look"

Amy Rosewater ‏@amyrosewater 24m24 minutes ago
.@jeremyabbottpcf tells reporters that this season is different than any other because it is "just for me"

Amy Rosewater ‏@amyrosewater 21m21 minutes ago
Interesting stat for @jeremyabbottpcf. He's won four U.S. titles but this year will be only second trip to Skate America. Was 5th in 2012.

Michelle Kennedy ‏@IntoSkating 1h1 hour ago
Obtaining a world medal is still a major motivator for @jeremyabbottpcf returning this season. - @USFigureSkating teleconference

Nick Zaccardi writes a brief story based on aforementioned teleconference.
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/13/jeremy-abbott-figure-skating-skate-america-olympics/

This was an interesting quote:

“When I comepted against Evan and Johnny, I was always constantly fighting for that attention, because I was always that third one,” Abbott said. “I was always brushed aside by the media because they garnered the attention. Now, Jason Brown is garnering that attention as well. That’s great for figure skating, and that’s great for the U.S., but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s going to win.”

I guess his point is that just because Jason's getting all the media attention that he won't necessarily win Skate America (or Nationals, I suppose), but that seems to be an odd way to say it.

Speaking of Jason Brown, he will likely have a similar teleconference soon since he will also be at Skate America.

 

[ice coverage]

... How many last chances does he get at the expense of someone else getting to learn from the experiences? ...

Abbott should get as many more chances as he earns fair and square.

I am in two minds about this. My opinion about comebacks in these kinds of sports is that it's not the old guy's fault the young guys aren't good enough to beat him.

But we are also talking about someone who is much more likely to have a great Nationals, get on the Worlds team and be a total waste of a spot there. So...

Surely you are not saying that Jeremy wasted his 2014 Worlds spot by earning a third 2015 spot for the U.S. men???

Well, that is the US system of selection, without taking consideration of the skaters' international results.

Not true. The U.S. criteria for the World team include both national and international results.

 

[Mrs. P]

Not true. The U.S. criteria for the World team include both national and international results.

Though to strictly play devil's advocate, the criteria hasn't been fully enforced in past years. Many argued Jeremy should had gone in 2011 since he had a good GP season compared to the rest.

 

[karne]

Surely you are not saying that Jeremy wasted his 2014 Worlds spot by earning a third 2015 spot for the U.S. men???

No - but he sure was a waste of an Olympic spot.