Article where Mark Lund making controversial comments on Weir, Lysacek

I am wondering if this bashing if from Ausrick is coming from a troll? I really hate it when someone comes on with such personal bashing. Grgranny is crying. :scowl:

The thing that surprises me the most is not that Lund comes out with innappropriately blunt statements in an inappropriate forum for it, and is rude, condescending, and disrespectful while doing it. The thing that surprises me the most is remembering back he was pretty high in praise of Galindo IIRC, and yet Galindo was even more extreme then Weir in all the same things as far as the mannerisms, personal styling, skating style, skating and public attire he is claiming to be so down and against Weir because of.

Other then his being upset that he believes something about Weir's sexuality and is upset he hasnt come out like Galindo, but that isnt his place to make claims like that. There are alot of very effiminate type men who arent neccessarily gay, even if Weir is though it wouldnt be Lund's place to slander him like that publicly, but it is also a wrong assumption to claim somebody is without stronger evidence then a very effiminate manner, personality, and even lifestyle.

Well I listened and watched the WHOLE show today and really wonder, if Lund just had used a little decorum in saying such thing, I doubt anyone would be as upset. 90% of what I heard him say throughout the WHOLE show is very much congruent with a lot of posters here - particularly his comments about the CoP. I think this comes down to "crossing the line." I know I am not the only person who feels there concern over ANY athlete not being as focused on their sport as some think they should.
That by it's self is fine, but I still think Lund was a total hypocrite for saying Johnny is not as focused on skating as he needs to be and then he goes off on a personal tangent on Johnny.

the "Ausrick" thing, whatever. I do meander and "unintelligible efforts to make whatever point." But just as Lund did, what was said I found valid opinion:agree: , but the way in which it was said, same as Lund. To far, too assuming, too personal and just plane snide. But I do monopolize a lot of threads sometimes, and it seems occasionally to make no point. Some I am sure hate to hear me. Sorry is all I can say, I try to post the best I feel necessary and hope it adds to a discussion. Sorry also for personal issues I bring up, I just try to show who I am so there is no assumption that I hate this or that. I try to look at things from a different POV sometimes (even when I don't feel that way) and I believe I deserve the flack sometimes. Just do us all a favor, instead of being hypocritical and posting that "Seanibu" brings up to much personal stuff or is "unintelligible" - and post your personal feelings toward me - just PM me so as not to take away from others as much as one may feel I am doing. I am open to suggestions and if is at me then PM me and I will choose to ignore or respond, the whole of GS shouldn't be drug down by that. I feel like I have changed and will continue. I want FS to be great and enjoy everyone here so much, every thing other then "hate and spite."

I will make a larger effort at trying to decipher what is pure personal, and that which is a misunderstanding and needs to be cleared up. I did it with MK when I started posting and had to profess my Love for her over and over (again framed pic on wall) but I am not the best but will try harder for all of you. Still funny how well I was understood in Corporate America????

slutskayafan21 said:

There are alot of very effiminate type men who arent neccessarily gay, even if Weir is though it wouldnt be Lund's place to slander him but it is also a wrong assumption to claim somebody is without stronger evidence then a very effiminate manner, personality, and even lifestyle.

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I'm not sure what you're refering to by slander. Though he's not openly gay, Johnny is openly in support of gay rights, and openly lists Brokeback Mountain, Velvet Goldmine, and Will and Grace as favorites on his official website. I think, in this context, there's no way he would consider simply being called gay as slander(because slander involves accusation of a negative trait), but the criticism about not being masculine enough is usually associated with homophobia and conservative gender stereotypes. In my opinion, Mark Lund has done damage to his own image by establishing himself as a bigot. Johnny Weir's image is not tarnished by being called "gay" or "not masculine enough", since neither of those things is a negative trait anyway.

Not to worry, Sean, just keep on being yourself. (And keep saying how much you love Michelle )

Grgranny said:

I am wondering if this bashing if from Ausrick is coming from a troll? I really hate it when someone comes on with such personal bashing. Grgranny is crying. :scowl:

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I'm sorry GrGranny

I didn't think I was 'bashing' anyone, really ! But what do I know ??

I concede I was having a bit of a 'dig', albeit tongue-in-cheek, about SeaniBU's long-winded padded essays, the true point(s) of which still elude me.

If he has a point or two to make, it'd be rool kool if he did it in a paragraph. Or two at a stretch.

Ausrick said:

If he has a point or two to make

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Sean was clear enough. He said he agreed with what Mark Lund said, but not with how he said it(because Lund was in "bash" mode, and Sean avoids that, even though I disagree with him). He said that he thought there shouldn't be a double standard with women being expected to conform, and men having more freedom(although here I would say that the problem is that women are constricted, not that men aren't). And he said that among other factors, feminine men might discourage straight men from watching figure skating. This makes me think of the woman who posted on Johnny's fansite that Johnny is the only male skater her husband is willing to watch--it also makes me think of some comments I've heard over the years from "straight" men who are perhaps a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey scale and seem to have a thing for feminine guys. To each their own. If each person is allowed to do their own thing, there will be variety, and a broader audience will be able to find something they like.

debdelilah said:

Sean was clear enough. He said he agreed with what Mark Lund said, but not with how he said it(because Lund was in "bash" mode, and Sean avoids that, even though I disagree with him). He said that he thought there shouldn't be a double standard with women being expected to conform, and men having more freedom(although here I would say that the problem is that women are constricted, not that men aren't). And he said that among other factors, feminine men might discourage straight men from watching figure skating. This makes me think of the woman who posted on Johnny's fansite that Johnny is the only male skater her husband is willing to watch--it also makes me think of some comments I've heard over the years from "straight" men who are perhaps a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey scale and seem to have a thing for feminine guys. To each their own. If each person is allowed to do their own thing, there will be variety, and a broader audience will be able to find something they like.

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Wow ! Okay then, and all in one paragraph as well

But how come so many have to 'splain what SeaniBU was saying anyway ? And is what you're saying what Seani was saying ?

Sadly, I'm anticipating a response from SeaniBU to that efect 'THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING AT ALL !!'

And Right On too ! Who are you to dare interpret his poetry ??
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ETA: Gawd, please don't take me seriously

Ausrick said:

Wow ! Okay then, and all in one paragraph as well

But how come so many have to 'splain what SeaniBU was saying anyway ? And is what you're saying what Seani was saying ?

Sadly, I'm anticipating a response from SeaniBU to that efect 'THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING AT ALL !!'

And Right on too ! Who are you to dare interpret his poetry ??

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Thank you for saying what I've been thinking.

Thank you,Yes to all but with one exseption...,

debdelilah said:

And he said that among other factors, feminine men might discourage straight men from watching figure skating.

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Not really, I was trying to avoid the whole"gay" issue initially because I don't think it matters, or at least it shouldn't and no one including the skaters should be using something like that or any other "non valid personal issue" IMO as an "attention getter." That is where the word "flamboyant" became associated with homosexuality, where as I do not believe that is the definition of the word. It is that there is to much focus from some skaters like Johnny on their personal life and not enough on their skating.

The misinterpretation of "gay / homosexual" and "flamboyant" being the same is purely the fault of some of the readers. That connection was NOT made by me, but by the "interpreter."

OK, you guys are working together here, right?

SeaniBu said:

Thank you,Yes to all but with one exseption...,


Not really, I was trying to avoid the whole"gay" issue initially because I don't think it matters, or at least it shouldn't and no one including the skaters should be using something like that or any other "non valid personal issue" IMO as an "attention getter." That is where the word "flamboyant" became associated with homosexuality, where as I do not believe that is the definition of the word. It is that there is to much focus from some skaters like Johnny on their personal life and not enough on their skating.

The misinterpretation of "gay / homosexual" and "flamboyant" being the same is purely the fault of some of the readers. That connection was NOT made by me, but by the "interpreter."

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Sean,

I know you weren't gay bashing--that's why I was saying "feminine guys" not "gay guys" in my quote. But anything different is attention getting. If you're a guy and you wear high heels, you get a lot more attention than a girl wearing heels. But, IMO, that doesn't mean guys shouldn't wear heels. Women who don't wear makeup when they compete or have unpopular hairstyles also get criticized, and that also really bothers me. But I think that way because of who I am and how I am--people are entitled to not like something. I don't mind you saying what you think--I like when people examine what they think and why, and I do it myself.

I'm looking forward to Nationals, and I hope that whoever skates well gets rewarded--no one held up, no one held down. And for Worlds, I like Weir, but I also like Takahashi, Oda, Lambiel, and Buttle, and I want the best skaters in the competition to get medals, not just a particular favorite. What Lund said doesn't really matter to me unless it happens that a lot of people agree with it, and it wouldn't surprise me if they do, but constrictions like that make the world pretty hard to move around in, and encourage secrecy--how can he say "come out as who you are" and "be more masculine and conformist" and not contradict himself?

I guess at this point, almost everything that can be said about it has been said, so we can agree to disagree.

debdelilah said:

Sean,

I know you weren't gay bashing--that's why I was saying "feminine guys" not "gay guys" in my quote. ......

.......I guess at this point, almost everything that can be said about it has been said, so we can agree to disagree.

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You are right on.:agree: But I woundn't say I am disagreeing as much as thoughts are not coinciding. EXPLANATION of that comment I just made clarifying I hope. Some of this I see from "outside" the FS community and within, but don't feel myself. Nor do I care as my opinion but as I want FS to be Huge again and will not take the decline lightly. It is coming back IMO and I want it to stay. Yes the phrase, "outside the box" could sum it up, but many hate that phrase as well as what does it say unless you define the walls of the box?

One thing I question is "anything different attention getting" and what happens after. Attention keeping or detracting? The philosophy that someone posted a while back that "Hollywood" actors say, "say whatever you want about me, just spell my name right." Concerned me that it was perceived to an extent as such. "Hollywood." I don't yet know how that makes me feel and if that really is FS. ??? But that is a actor thinking only of themselves. Maybe that is the reality and I am fooling myself.

As I read over your posts I believe I see what you are saying. I think your theory of how you perceive "questioning" is wonderful and think it is something everyone should do regularly. I do say things that are upsetting because they are upsetting to me and if I just say "I agree" no questions get many quality answers. I poke to far and become incoherent too often and am defeating my intent. I can't expect to clearly present a opinion that I don't FULLY believe in myself and shouldn't be trying. Eyes open.:agree: Time for a different approach, or maybe non at all.

And as it goes, I see some of the rebuttals to my thoughts presented and really only see Johnny effecting himself and hence others will see the result once it has concluded. I am very glad that I was not taken as gay bashing, and I hope everyone also knows I truly like Johnny AND his skating. But I love the sport more and am open to ideas from more then the FS community.

Little side note. Every guy I have introduced to Kurt Browning in his pro career via viewing say "practically" the same thing. "I have never seen skating like that before, he is in a class to himself." - this is a view of "non fans" who look very discouraged when I put in the DVD, but have a smile shortly there after. Then the desire for me to clarify the difference between the (what they call) the "Olympic type comps" and the Pros.
Whatever that is worth.

Tonichelle said:

I don't follow Johnny's career as much as I follow others, but I know we've been discussing his personal woes a lot longer than just this season... and I am pretty sure it was nationals either last year or in Portland that he mentioned going through a rough break up...

maybe I'm going crazy, I dunno

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I get the impression, from the hints he's thrown out, that his relationship has been rocky for a while--mostly due to its long-distance nature. But from what he said, the final split came last summer, right before the short Japan COI tour.

I don't think he has mentioned his personal problems in relation to his performance this year except perhaps as an extra, complicating factor to the stress of lack of training time (due to the long COI tour) and his decision to create two entirely new programs this season.

I'm not sure that was the wisest decision, in hindsight. I think if he had kept The Swan as his SP and concentrated on training a new long program, this season might have been much different for him. As it is, these new programs are not only new in content, but in style. Much as I admire his wanting to try new things, I'm not sure if it was a good fit for him.

It seems that he's been training very hard for Nats. Hopefully, that will pay off.

Sorry to go so OT, lol.

With her homophobic comments about Johnny, Nancy proves yet again that she is ignorant... Tonya was misunderstood ... USFS should reinstate her.

SeaniBu said:

The misinterpretation of "gay / homosexual" and "flamboyant" being the same is purely the fault of some of the readers. That connection was NOT made by me, but by the "interpreter."

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Cher seems to think flamboyant and homosexual are synonyms!!!!!!

Ant

Mathman said:

OK, you guys are working together here, right?

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Well, I'm not .. I concede defeat on whatever it was ..

Just really looking forward to this US Nats with JW vs EL.

Ausrick said:

Well, I'm not .. I concede defeat on whatever it was

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Good points I felt were made, and no defeat in opinions, it is all relative and I am the one that was so hard to understand so.... I rambel as some do, and if I choose a topic that is sensitive, then I am asking for a little "trouble."
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If I step back and look at this, it is wonderful that there is so much passion for these wonderful athletes that it works up emotion. If we didn't feel then most would have nothing to post let alone be interested as we are in the great FS. But there is a point were "gushing" can just sound like "gushing" and nothing more to gain from reading, be that positive or negative and the point will be illusive.
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IMO, if there is one thing that has been reiterated via this topic, it is that snide, name calling, etc... just convolute the point trying to be made, and may only be remembered for the hurtful comments rather then the point valid or not. - really in reference to Lund.
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BOT, I am not sure that I heard Nancy being "here or there" about Johnny's personal life / prerogative off the ice as much as she was saying how she felt it impacted his skating and others perception of it by brining it onto the ice. That notion could be totally wrong or right, that is valid opinion, in mine. But I don't think the comments were toward "off ice Johnny" from Nancy anyway. She nodded her head after one of Lunds long winded comments and had a look in her eye like "wait, what did I just nod my head to? What in the world do I no about drag queens (Lund's words) and the work they have done." But just saying the Swan costume itself was a little over the top for many pallets to taste nice and not be distractive. Also seeming to support the USSR rather then the USA - but that is part of Johnny's constitutional right to do so - does it show respect for the country that provided the opportunity to him. No name calling of her, or justifying of her being "taken out" is really necessary, or for that matter a "stable emotion" or notion to rectify a violent action. That is just one bad trying to justify another.

Is Tonya now Batman or Robin hood? She [Tonya] admits regret and if you want to "better someone" in sports then you beat them in sports, not via vigilantly sneaky actions. When she was asked about wanting to get Nancy in the ring - when entering the boxing portion of her life - she frownd the thought of it, and regretful comments once again came. Also Tonya was not good at weight transfer and her punches were empty although her spirt was . I have seen Tonya skate since, the notion of her being reinstated is not relevant, for fans of FS know she was a powerful and greatly talented figure skater regardless of what non-fans remember her for. But I don't think her name should be a "dirty word" either. I was not pleased when reading an article about Kimmie for mom the other day, that there was no mention of Tonya being the other (let alone the first) US lady to pull the 3a - just that Kimmie "was only one of two US ladies to..."

brad640 said:

With her homophobic comments about Johnny, Nancy proves yet again that she is ignorant... Tonya was misunderstood ... USFS should reinstate her.

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I totally agree.