Article where Mark Lund making controversial comments on Weir, Lysacek

[SeaniBu]

I don't think it's Johnny, who's busy with the "shameless self promotion" here.

I didn't catch this the first time

OT -- Sean, did you really go undefeated as an amateur boxer?

4 "offical" matches and a lot of "street / school / buddy fights," did not "tap out" until I was 26. But I also knew how to pick 'em I think I should add to that that my brother received 16oz boxing gloves for his 16th b-day. I was six with 2 other sisters. Who do you think learned how to take the punches? It is not that I was fantastic IOW - I don't know if any of the sports I have ever done have ever been considered fantastic - but I could take a hell of a lot and turn it on when I needed.

 

[sk8addict]

Nancy's lesbian drag

I was getting ready to write Nancy at C/O Star Games 40 Salem Street Suite 101 LYNNFIELD, Mass 01904 when I decided to go back and watch the youtube clip again. What I noticed was that in her bluejean jacket and stringy hair with hardly any makeup on she looks kinda like a lesbian! There should be rules that straight women should get fixed-up and femmed to be on television don't you think? Someone could get the wrong idea or be influenced by such an appearance. Straight men could get turned off and not watch figure skating again. Let Nancy know what you think of her Biggoted remarks.

 

[Mathman]

Either that or he is part of the religious sect (that there is surprisingly) that ignore the fact Jesus said ( I am going out on a limb here for I am not looking this up) any man who lies with another man is guilty of sin.

I looked it up, LOL.

No, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

But there are prosciptions against it in the Old Testament, especially in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. These are included in long lists of things that Jews shalt not do, such as eat shellfish or bats, or loan money at interest to other Jews.

Linguists and Biblical scholars argue about whether the language refers to run-of-the-mill gay sex or whether it is directed specifically against ritual prostitution as was practiced by some of the cults that were rivals of Yahvism in those times.

So Johnny probably shouldn't do a routine based on the prophet Hosea. (Although, come to think of it, Hosea did marry a lady named Gomer who was the daughter of a (female) prositute, so I guess he wasn't all that strict.)

 

[SeaniBu]

I looked it up, LOL.

No, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.

Glad you did:agree: One of those things you grow up being told and fitting it in the "blanks" and brain washing myself. It was more likely John. So much for going out on a limb.

 

[Mathman]

It was more likely John. So much for going out on a limb.

Actually, it was Paul (and his protege Timothy).

Paul was against fornication (so translated), adultery, masturbation, and a lot of stuff (Romans 1:27, I Corinthians 6:9, I Timothy 1:10). He was also against marriage ("he who marries his virgin does well, but he who does not marry her does even better" -- I Cor. 7:38), felt that women should not speak in church (I Cor. 14:34) and that if a woman didn't wear a hat in church she should have her hair cut off as a punishment because wearing a hat acknowleges that "man was not created for woman, but woman for man" (I Cor. 11: 6-9).

Nowadays all this just strikes people as silly, no matter how much they might respect Paul's teaching on other matters.

 

[sk8addict]

Saul the sinner- Paul the biggot. Still the same.

 

[Kasey]

Geez, I don't know whether to tell people here to get a room, get a life, or take it to PM.

In regard to the video (which, like some other posters, I HAD seen long before this thread hit 5 pages even), Lund is an ***, who obviously has some bitterness towards Weir. Tilly is a non-entity. And Kerrigan is pretty much a worthless part of the show, because she just toes the line on "predictions" (Um, yeah, Nance, without you I would never have thought that Belbin and Agosto could win Nats this year), and says nothing of any consequence whatsoever. It's a shame, when she commentated for Jr. Worlds a few years ago on Lifetime, she did a fair enough job. This was just a train wreck.

 

[antmanb]

Your friend got it wrong. American law mandates equal pay for equal work, and has done so since 1963.

I did wonder when i was debating it with her and she insisted there was no equivalent legilslation...i will email her immediately!!!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Not much really left to say on this but here we are...

I do NOT find the Christ costume flamboyant at all in it's self. The routine in it's self is nice, but why Johnny choose this is flamboyant and shameless self promotion.

But its figure skating - and the point is you have to make yourself stand out from the rest of the crowd. Granted your skating is the best way to do that but if you leave an impression on your judges because of your costume and it helps them remember you then why not?

Definition of flamboyant:
flam·boy·ant –adjective
1. strikingly bold or brilliant; showy: flamboyant colors.
2. conspicuously dashing and colorful: the flamboyant idol of international society.
3. florid; ornate; elaborately styled: flamboyant speeches.

To me that doesn't sound like a bad thing and not even in the context of a sport.

It is simple, if it is not about balance then it is one or the other, period.

About balance - so long as there is a mark for technical and a mark for presentation (or component scores) then in its definition there is a balance.

for 3 months and the attention was for what, the skating or the soap operas?

For the three month sit was the soap opera but the side effect was that people watched the skating, enjoyed it and came back for more. Don't underestimate the power that watching it once can have. I dno't know how its gone down in the US but the celebrity skating program here in the UK has given the sport an immense boost. Last year rinks had queues round the block with people wanting to come in and learn to skate...and it was remained much higher than before once the program ended.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's difficult for some to see a beloved skater being bashed on TV. That is very understandable to me. I think I am the only one, however, who questioned WHY this gay man attacked another gay man verbally.

I draw the conclusions that it concerns an ongoing argument in gay circles between effeminate behaviour and mainstream behaviour among themselves. Not every gay man and woman fits the stereotype role.

In spite of his 'plucked' eyebrows which are not unlike many masculine celebrities, and the neuveau business men, I believe he is of the pro mainstream behaviour. He is also 'out' and more than likely does not want to be associated with femininity. He knows Americans are very much judgemental on stereotypes.

I really think Lund was wrong to bring that agenda to a figure skating interview show. And I further believe the show was not balanced. Johnny should have been present to speak out for himself.

This all water under the bridge now, and I see no point in adding anything further about it. The above was just my scenario of what caused Lund's outcry.

BTW. Although no one would speak about the concept of a skating interview show, I am still in favor of keeping the show active although it doesn't air in NYC.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

It's difficult for some to see a beloved skater being bashed on TV. That is very understandable to me. I think I am the only one, however, who questioned WHY this gay man attacked another gay man verbally.

I draw the conclusions that it concerns an ongoing argument in gay circles between effeminate behaviour and mainstream behaviour among themselves. Not every gay man and woman fits the stereotype role.

In spite of his 'plucked' eyebrows which are not unlike many masculine celebrities, and the neuveau business men, I believe he is of the pro mainstream behaviour. He is also 'out' and more than likely does not want to be associated with femininity. He knows Americans are very much judgemental on stereotypes.

I really think Lund was wrong to bring that agenda to a figure skating interview show. And I further believe the show was not balanced. Johnny should have been present to speak out for himself.

This all water under the bridge now, and I see no point in adding anything further about it. The above was just my scenario of what caused Lund's outcry.

BTW. Although no one would speak about the concept of a skating interview show, I am still in favor of keeping the show active although it doesn't air in NYC.

Joe

I agree with you completely Joe - the WHY for me seemed as obvious as it obviosuly was to you and you explain very well in your post. The onyl thign i would quibble with is saying Johnny is gay...however "out" he may or may not be in private, or outside of the media, since he hasn't come out publicly we should not state he is gay as a fact.

As to a program discussing skating - i'm all for that. BUt maybe get rid of any irrelevant guest spots (like Lund) and actually have current eligible or very recently turned pro skaters to comment. Oh and convince a station in the UK o pick up the rights to braodcast in the UK!

Ant

 

[SeaniBu]

Not much really left to say on this but here we are...
But its figure skating - and the point is you have to make yourself stand out from the rest of the crowd. Granted your skating is the best way to do that but if you leave an impression on your judges because of your costume and it helps them remember you then why not?

Precisely, why not?

Definition of flamboyant:
flam·boy·ant –adjective
1. strikingly bold or brilliant; showy: flamboyant colors.
2. conspicuously dashing and colorful: the flamboyant idol of international society.
3. florid; ornate; elaborately styled: flamboyant speeches.

To me that doesn't sound like a bad thing and not even in the context of a sport.

:agree: In the definition, but how it is "used" concerns me. It might just be me too.
I would like to hear more about the effects Johnny's lifestyle is having on his skating opposed to how his skating fits into his lifestyle, see him do something about it and improve too - the guy I really used to think he is on his way up rather then on his way "OUT."
But this could be a good example, "loose sight of the sport and see how the performance suffers."
And I am hoping that the reason he did not attend the show with Lund is due to a strict regimen of getting back to the ice. I miss Johnny as the potential, and can't tell now if it is because he is just fading as some (all eventually) skaters do, or loosing sight of the skating and focusing on the attention and that is why the "fade."

About balance - so long as there is a mark for technical and a mark for presentation (or component scores) then in its definition there is a balance.

Yes:agree: as far as judging is concerned I see no issue at all. It is what people focus on, and the media will respond by catering to that interest and there will be even more of a consensus of the general populous that "not only is the whole FS thing just prancing around on ice" there is now even more of a stigma placed on it. Call it ignorance of the public to not realize how difficult and technical FS is, but perception start somewhere. And just as there is a catalyst one way there can be one the other direction too.

For the three month sit was the soap opera but the side effect was that people watched the skating, enjoyed it and came back for more.

I don't see the same result with that particular situation, but it matters not now. The recent interest I do see as a positive approach in comparison to SLC and "The Whack". Better "message" this go, and I think people will stick around more this time. And it is because the understanding of skating has been raised by those shows IMO.

Anyhoo, it's ground down now, so instead of getting flack for going OT or told to PM or "get a room" I'll quit. I don't think any of my points were that far off from anyone's understanding but I am more making people mad then making the point. And all of this is exactly what I don't think helps the sport anyway - I feel like a hypocrite. :sheesh:

More people are at the rinks now, I hope they stay for the substance this time, and don't loose sight of the sport with in the myriad of "pop culture." For it really doesn't have a chance in longevity in "pop" when the faces of FS are up against Britney, Paris and Bradgalina, not a chance. If I really thought that "soap opera" angle had a chance in FS against it's competition of Hollywood and the likes, I would have much less of an issue with it.

And in brief, I blame the media more then the followers (although some of the fan base surprises me with a less than approachable attitude???). No one needs to tell me the power the media has, I believe it is much more then anyone wants to admit and I "preach" about it all the time. But with FS the media has not been "Proactive," only have they been "reactive."

 

[Tonichelle]

Nowadays all this just strikes people as silly, no matter how much they might respect Paul's teaching on other matters.

Actually the fornication and the marriage still are seen as very right and not silly... the clothing rules have become lax...

the thoughts of marriage is basically following a trend in the NT where it was thought that if you could stay out of a relationship it was better than being in one. Because if a man is married or in any relationship he must then divide his time between his woman and God... and we all know God is a jealous God and wants all of our attention to himself!

and no I'm not brainwashed... some of us were actually taught to research and study on our own...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Actually the fornication and the marriage still are seen as very right and not silly... the clothing rules have become lax...

the thoughts of marriage is basically following a trend in the NT where it was thought that if you could stay out of a relationship it was better than being in one. Because if a man is married or in any relationship he must then divide his time between his woman and God... and we all know God is a jealous God and wants all of our attention to himself!

and no I'm not brainwashed... some of us were actually taught to research and study on our own...

But stealing, killing (in some cases like hanging), lying,gossiping,etc. all perfectly ok now. But laws for marriage are, as they should be, because that's the way it is in bibleland. Whether Paul likes it or not modern man has to adjust and Divorce has been ok'd as geneneral practice and it shows that biblical text is not really law.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

whoa, time out... I never said anything about other 'laws' becoming obsolete... in fact after Christ began teaching he EXPANDED the law to include that even thinking malace or hatred to someone is the same as committing murder... and that lusting after someone in your heart/head is the same as committing adultry (something I struggle with, and I'll openly admit it).

murder, lying, stealing, etc are never and have never been ok... so I'm confused as to why you brought that up - none of the references MM made were of the 'rest of the law'

As for hanging, don't think I don't catch a hidden meaning, and other forms of 'capital punishment' God did have 'death' as one of the consequences both in the old and new testament and did give the 'nations' the ability to decide. If they didn't, He would take care of it his own way.

In the Old Testament God also allowed some of His 'control' of the people to that of a ruler (in their day judges and then later kings) not because it was His way, but because the people asked.

Jesus taught that we are to give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and that we are to follow the 'laws of the land'. That means I have to follow the laws of whereever I am. That doesn't give me reign to be a vigilanty for God and bomb abortion clinics or start a holocaust or drag someone I think is gay behind my pick up until his body is unrecognizeable.

That does allow me to vote, and have my voice be heard. Just like everyone else not only on this board but in the US... I'm still entitled to opinions and the like...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

murder, lying, stealing, etc are never and have never been ok... so I'm confused as to why you brought that up - none of the references MM made were of the 'rest of the law' ...

Because the law is all inclusive. Is it not? To break one or ten, it's the same.


.

 

[SeaniBu]

This is all my fault, I am sorry.

 

[Tonichelle]

Because the law is all inclusive. Is it not? To break one or ten, it's the same.


.

you're right, and divorce is still a no no... but some churches have decided tochange it up

just because a church system changes beliefs that does not change God's law

Sean - any time the door is opened I jump through it, not your fault, I could let it go:agree:

 

[Hsuhs]

Where is the moderator?

 

[antmanb]

I would like to hear more about the effects Johnny's lifestyle is having on his skating opposed to how his skating fits into his lifestyle, see him do something about it and improve too - the guy I really used to think he is on his way up rather then on his way "OUT."
But this could be a good example, "loose sight of the sport and see how the performance suffers."

The thing with Johnny this season is the break up of a relationship over the summer. I think his heart is hurting and his head isn't entirely in his skating. For that i'm giving him a break. If his goal is the Olympics then the first post Olympics season is the one that you can afford to not be on top of it all yet. I don't think its his other off ice endeavours that have made him stray from his training i think its the fact he's hurting that has made himfill his time with other things and be around people instead of having the pretty lonely hard training time. when you're feeling that hurt you need to be around people not on your own.

ant