Original Dance

mycelticblessing · Nov 23, 2008

^^
That makes sense. As the guidelines are not very specific, its hard to say that who's wrong/right in their choice of music. D/S OD is really interesting and lovely, and I do think it reflects the period.

I just saw D/W's OD. It was an unfortunate disaster, but I couldn't help laughing. Partly because it was so surprising and unbelievable. I'm sure Charlie doesn't find it funny now, but ten years later, he'll probably look at a recording of that performance and chuckle as well.

Mafke · Nov 24, 2008

Fashionista said:
I'd like to say a few words about D/S' waltz. The point is that waltz was the sound of Soviet 20's-30's - it was the most popular dance right before and during the WW2.

But it didn't _originate_ in the 20's-30's which AFAIK was one of the requirements this year. Plus, it's a ballroom dance (and ballroom dances were supposed to be ineligible, again AFAIK).

The idea of the OD is a little like a lottery, the rhythm may suit a pairs strengths or it may force them out of their comfort zone. D/S seem to be twisting the rules to stay inside their comfort zone and I think they should be punished no matter how nice an OD it is otherwise.

mycelticblessing · Nov 24, 2008

^^

If Ballroom Dances are not allowed, wouldn't a Foxtrot be ineligible as well? Anyway, what the rules said was that the dance should "NOT (be) performed as a Ballroom Dance". Not that ballroom dances are all banned.

Besides, all the correct guidelines seem to be in the “Ice Dance Music Rhythms Booklet and Compact Disc 1995” which none of us can get hold of. I'm sure that the judges and the skaters and their coaches will all have a copy. It is explicitly stated that ''The incorrect selection of music for the rhythms chosen must be penalized by the judges.'' so if the judges are not penalizing them, there is nothing wrong with their selection of music.

sfgirl · Nov 24, 2008

When a skater has a performance like Charlie did on Saturday, what happens? I know everybody says you have to put it behind you, but how? Do you think he fled to his room to be alone, or do you think he carried on with the plans they had before the competition. It fascinates me how they both were able to regroup and perform magnificently in the FD. I am not a skater, so maybe I don't understand the importance of training. I guess it is drilled into skaters to let mistakes go, and move on. I just am so impressed with the outcome. Meryl and Charlie's potential is enormous, and they are only 21! :love:

chuckm · Nov 24, 2008

mycelticblessing said:
^^

If Ballroom Dances are not allowed, wouldn't a Foxtrot be ineligible as well? Anyway, what the rules said was that the dance should "NOT (be) performed as a Ballroom Dance". Not that ballroom dances are all banned.

Besides, all the correct guidelines seem to be in the “Ice Dance Music Rhythms Booklet and Compact Disc 1995” which none of us can get hold of. I'm sure that the judges and the skaters and their coaches will all have a copy. It is explicitly stated that ''The incorrect selection of music for the rhythms chosen must be penalized by the judges.'' so if the judges are not penalizing them, there is nothing wrong with their selection of music.

Rules that would apply to other dance teams don't appear to apply to top Russian teams. There was once a rule that a FD must have a dance rhythm. Navka/Kostomarov's "Tosca" had very little dance rhythm, and the rule disappeared the following season.

I think if any other team had performed the DomShabs OD, they would have been heavily penalized and told to change it. I do recall a US junior dance team choosing the blues for the Folk Dance OD last season being penalized and told to change it (and blues was quintessential American folk music).

Ptichka · Nov 24, 2008

sfgirl said:
I guess it is drilled into skaters to let mistakes go, and move on. I just am so impressed with the outcome. Meryl and Charlie's potential is enormous, and they are only 21!

I think a big part of the credit also goes to Shpilband and Zueva for being able to instill enough confidence in their students to put a mistake like that behind. Also kudos to Meryl for supporting her partner. Can you imagine if she pulled a Fusar-Poli on him?!

Fashionista said:
In official writing there's said that this season's OD is a rhythm of "the swinging 20s-30s", right? There's no any note that it should be the American 20s or 30s. It can be Chinese 20s or Soviet 30s as well. Why not?

How far do you think such logic should be pushed? By that logic, anything would go - from Flamenco to Macru (a native Guinea dance) - it's almost certain that those were performed somewhere in the 20's/ 30's. Where you're right is in that perhaps the ISU should be more careful with their wording in the future if they want more uniformity to the dances.

sfgirl · Nov 24, 2008

I was so impressed with Meryl. In the Kiss and Cry, Charlie looked like he was agonized. I felt so bad for him. You could tell that Meryl was hurting for him. Instead of selfishly thinking of her plight in their partnership, I could tell she was completely in his corner. For 21 years of age, they are amazing. I just love this wonderful young couple.

Tonichelle · Nov 24, 2008

aw but no one can even match (much less best) Babs' death stare after that dance

so why would one even try

dancemaster · Nov 24, 2008

chuckm said:
Rules that would apply to other dance teams don't appear to apply to top Russian teams. There was once a rule that a FD must have a dance rhythm. Navka/Kostomarov's "Tosca" had very little dance rhythm, and the rule disappeared the following season.

I think if any other team had performed the DomShabs OD, they would have been heavily penalized and told to change it. I do recall a US junior dance team choosing the blues for the Folk Dance OD last season being penalized and told to change it (and blues was quintessential American folk music).

At the dance meeting at Worlds last year, the technical committee specified that the music should have originated in the 1920s, 30s, or 40s, and that teams should present a consistent theme and feeling from one chosen decade. the suggestions that the technical committee made as far as rhythms are concerned, including charleston, lindy hop, ragtime, foxtrot, waltz, and tango. ( but tango was later on take out,more to the point was not allowed to be used but nothing said about waltz So, what is the problem chuckm..maybe its the ISU that should be heavily penalized for not making crystal clear rules

sfgirl · Nov 24, 2008

Aren't Fusar-Poli and Margaglio still skating together? I wonder if she regrets her death stare? It was bad.

lmarie086 · Nov 24, 2008

Tonichelle said:
aw but no one can even match (much less best) Babs' death stare after that dance so why would one even try

That still ranks in one of my top 10 favorite moments in ice dance history :laugh:

.
It would just look funny if anyone tried to out do her. It simply isn't possible.

I can't help but wonder what D/W would have scored if it had been clean. It's something to think about, you know? The overall program looked much improved over SC (if you ignore the falls, of course). Looking forward to seeing a cleaner version at GPF.

missysays · Nov 24, 2008

sfgirl said:
When a skater has a performance like Charlie did on Saturday, what happens? I know everybody says you have to put it behind you, but how? Do you think he fled to his room to be alone, or do you think he carried on with the plans they had before the competition. It fascinates me how they both were able to regroup and perform magnificently in the FD. I am not a skater, so maybe I don't understand the importance of training. I guess it is drilled into skaters to let mistakes go, and move on. I just am so impressed with the outcome. Meryl and Charlie's potential is enormous, and they are only 21!

I think this is a crucial thing that separates the people who are good competitors and those that struggle and never quite make it over that hump. I think it's something that sports psychologists and coaches try and instill in athletes to do one thing at a time and not to think about it too much or keep your mind from wandering all over the place during the performance itself. Throughout skating, you can see the athletes who were pros at this-- Brian Boitano or Katarina Witt come to mind -- and athletes who struggled-- Paul Wylie until his Olympic medal winning performance and nowadays Alissa Czisny

I was so impressed with Meryl. In the Kiss and Cry, Charlie looked like he was agonized. I felt so bad for him. You could tell that Meryl was hurting for him. Instead of selfishly thinking of her plight in their partnership, I could tell she was completely in his corner. For 21 years of age, they are amazing. I just love this wonderful young couple.

I agree- I think it's even more illuminating and inspiring for me to see skating couples work through a difficult performance then it is just to see their successes. One of my all time favorite difficult performances was Gordeeva/Grinkov's second Olympic gold medal- Sergei had a few small mistakes in the performance and they thought that they had lost the gold when they were sitting in the kiss and cry while Katia was anxious she didn't seem to blame him and his relief and leaning into her when the results came up was something that to me summed up their relationship and partnership more than their "successful" Olympic performance in 1988.

~tapdancer · Nov 24, 2008

It really says a lot about their commitment to each other and their partnership that Meryl showed nothing but compassion and support to Charlie, at least as far as we public fans could see! But I'm sure she didn't berate him at all even in private, she knew he was devastated. I well remember Fusar-Poli's glare at her partner that went on and on and on...everyone was squirming in embarrassment. It's part of figure skating lore now but I didn't think it was funny or compelling. I felt nothing but pity for Margalio. I'm glad Meryl and Charlie aren't partners such as they were.

I'm sure they will always remember this...consistency has always been a strength for them but it's probably a good thing to know you aren't infallible. I'm sure their partnership will be all the more stronger for this.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 25, 2008

lmarie086 said:
I can't help but wonder what D/W would have scored if it had been clean. It's something to think about, you know? The overall program looked much improved over SC (if you ignore the falls, of course). Looking forward to seeing a cleaner version at GPF.

It's sad about Dance falls. Single skaters can fall and still win gold medals, but skate dancers are held to perfection.

Original Dance

mycelticblessing

Mafke

mycelticblessing

sfgirl

chuckm

Ptichka

Forum translator

sfgirl

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

dancemaster

sfgirl

lmarie086

missysays

~tapdancer

Joesitz (RIP)

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