Ice Dancing at the 1994 and 1998 Olympics

Blades of Passion · Mar 19, 2010

I've been trying to watch more Pairs and Ice Dance and, although I don't think my area of expertise allows me to be quite as confident in my opinion in these disciplines as singles, I feel like these Olympics had some pretty bad judging. I'd like to hear other opinions about who should have placed where.

1994 - Were Torvill & Dean robbed? I feel like they were superior to the Russians.

1998 - I feel like Krylova/Ovsyannikov was overrated here. Their Free Dance was not much more than a bunch of (often silly looking) posing. I would have placed them 4th in that segment and bumped Anissina/Peizerat up to Silver overall.

I don't think Krylova/Ovsyannikov should have beat Anissina/Peizerat at 1998 or 1999 Worlds either. In fact, I really think Anissina/Peizerat should have won every single World Championship from 1998 to 2001. I find them to be one of the greatest teams ever.

Mathman · Mar 19, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
1994 - Were Torvill & Dean robbed? I feel like they were superior to the Russians.

Weren't there some rules changes that year that worked to the disadvantage of Torvill and Dean?

(Sorry about that mistaken edit. The "edit" button is right on top of the "reply with quote" button if you have an old version of Internet Explorer. :eek:

hwell: )

Antilles · Mar 19, 2010

I love dance, but I'm not an expert. I do remember Tracy Wilson saying the 1999 World placements were correct, as A&P didn't have as much difficulty in their FD as they were capable of (and I love A&P). I think they should have won in 2001. 1994 Olympics have been discussed ad nauseum, and most seem to think the top three placements were wrong.

ImaginaryPogue · Mar 19, 2010

Didn't A/P have a less than perfect rendition of their FD in Nagano, though? I would've given it to K/O in 1999 Worlds - love that crazy FD. A/P probably should've won in 2001, though.

heyang · Mar 19, 2010

Can't think of anything in particular about 1998.

As for T/D in 1994, I think there was a ' deduction' on the move where Jayne flipped over Chris. If I recall, it was deemed to be assisted, which was 'illlegal' back then. The people who favored T/D for the win felt that Jayne launched herself, which wouldn't be illegal.

I could be mistaken - that might've been at Euro's and then adjusted for Olympics. Personally, I preferred T/D, as well and definitely think that they were third.

It was also somewhat controversial because Platov made a mistake that Grishuk saved from penalty be grabbing his hand - otherwise, they would have penalized since there was a requirement that they couldn't not be touching for more than a particular # of seconds. Many also felt that they didn't dance close enough to each other as compared to Usova/Zhulin and T/D.

gkelly · Mar 19, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
1994 - Were Torvill & Dean robbed? I feel like they were superior to the Russians.

I have a lot to say about that contest.

Short version:

I was able to get one free ticket to that Olympics through my father's connections at CBS. I chose the free dance because I was very curious about how Torvill & Dean would compare to Usova & Zhulin.
(While I was there I also was able to buy tickets for other skating sessions, including the OD.)

Torvill & Dean skated next to last in the free dance. I thought they were better than Usova/Zhulin. I specifically thought "Show me something that can beat that!"

Grishuk & Platov skated last. I wasn't expecting it, but they owned the ice that night. I thought "OK, you showed me."

Blades of Passion · Mar 20, 2010

I mean...if I was judging only on the amount of energy in the performance then, sure, Grishuk & Platov would win. They attacked that performance like crazy. But their unison was seriously below Torvill & Dean. At the very least Torvill & Dean should have placed over Usova/Zhulin's snoozer of a program.

dorispulaski · Mar 20, 2010

For those who'd like to judge along at home for 1998 Olympics

There were 2 CD's skated, the Golden Waltz (hard) and the Argentine Tango (not as hard)
There are a very few of these CD's on youtue. Here's a playlist:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A693F116E7872AFD

The OD was Jive. Here's a playlist:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FE996D4663559204

And of course, the FD:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=73356D9E0CE9D164

Antilles · Mar 20, 2010

A&P's R&J was fine at the 98 Olympics. It was their OD that was a bit bumpy in places.

blue_idealist · Mar 20, 2010

I don't think I watched the dance in 1994 at the time. Recently, I did watch the free dances of the medalists and I thought all of them were excellent. If I HAD to choose, I would probably say Grishuk and Platov - gold, Torvill and Dean - silver, Usova and Zhulin - bronze.

I did watch the 1998 competition, but being only 11 and not knowing much about dance, I think I was biased toward the Canadians, Bourne and Kraatz. I remember thinking they should have got the bronze over Anissina and Peizerat. I'm not sure if I would think the same now if I re-watched the programs.

Puppylove · Mar 20, 2010

An interesting topic!

I remember watching 1994 live on TV and thinking that I would have given T/D the gold. Admittedly, though, I find in ice dancing that, once certain technical standards have been met, I am so swayed by the overall style of skating that I am unable to reach a fair and informed judgement. I strongly prefer somewhat classical/old-school/elegant (oh, I can't find the right word) skating to strong/energetic. Perhaps for that reason, I wasn't that keen on any particular teams in recent years, but my love for ice dancing has just been revived by V/M

dorispulaski · Mar 22, 2010

BTW, I fixed the playlist as best I could. It seems that one of the youtubers I was relying on had their account yanked.

Big Deal · Mar 22, 2010

No one was even seriously discussed about 1994 in this forum. It was NOT fair. Torvil-Dean was in the league of their own.
1998. was better in its result.
Watching on youtube today, I would be interested in what Domnina-Shabalin would do with a Jive if it were the OD this year

))
All the couples was awsome in Jive there.
Let's have some OD themes like this now. I think the present of Dom.Shab and their "limited abilities" avoided ISU officials to choose more interesting, fast, quick themes for OD- It is about time for that!

Gmichael66 · Mar 22, 2010

Torvill & Dean were robbed...period. (excuse the spelling) Gritchuk & Platov did not deserve the gold medal at all. The variety of styles, attack of the ice, musicality and consistency of T&D was totally overlooked......Their free skate was epic in all aspects and totaly was worthy of the gold medal......unmatched unison, deep lines, great ice coverage and a maturity and confidence lacking in both G & P and U & Z......

G

gkelly · Mar 22, 2010

Gmichael66 said:
Torvill & Dean were robbed...period. (excuse the spelling) Gritchuk & Platov did not deserve the gold medal at all. The variety of styles,

Not a judging criterion.

attack of the ice, musicality and consistency of T&D was totally overlooked......Their free skate was epic in all aspects and totaly was worthy of the gold medal......unmatched unison, deep lines, great ice coverage and a maturity and confidence lacking in both G & P and U & Z......

G&P were the one's whose "attack of the ice" and ice coverage were unmatched, especially in the FD. T&D were at best a distant second in those areas.

U&Zh unquestionably had better line, and arguably better unison and edges. They also had a more varied content of skating skills in terms of types of turns, multidirectional skating, and balance of workload between the two partners.

All three teams had strengths and weaknesses with respect to each other. Whichever way the results came out, someone would have been "robbed" in someone's opinion.

Go ahead, tell us who you liked best and why. Everyone has their own preferences and their own way of evaluating the performances. That doesn't mean that judges who thought a different team was best were wrong.

nylynnr · Mar 22, 2010

GKelly, do you have any memory of the compulsories in the '94 contest?

If memory serves, Torvill and Dean were no where near the Russians in that segment, and were held up by the judges to place third, still within striking distance. If true, then they probably shouldn't have even been in a position to win gold going in to the free.

gkelly · Mar 22, 2010

I arrived in Norway the day of the compulsories, so I ended up watching them on TV (with Norwegian commentary) while jetlagged. I don't have any more insight into those results than if I'd watched them on CBS.

My impression from what I saw in Hamar and from the differences in the results between Euros and Olympics were that T&D's OD that year was unbeatable, G&P's free dance was unbeatable, and the compulsory placements ended up being a deciding factor in the final results. Whether those placements were "correct" I can't say.

Olympia · Mar 23, 2010

Apologies in advance for any spelling errors! I'm writing the names from memory and not verifying spellings.

My problem with G and P in 1994 is that I found them rather hectic. I always loved Usova and Zhulin--so fluid--and felt bad that they never got an OGM, though Zhulin certainly managed a fine career in skating as a coach and an inspired choreographer. I believe he choreographed Kurt Browning's professional competition program "Summertime." (Correct me if I'm wrong.) And he did coach Tatiana Navka, the then-Mrs. Zhulin, and Roman Kostomarov to a gold in 2006, I believe.

As for whether Torvill and Dean were robbed...they're the immortals of skating, the gold standard. I don't think they lost anything by not getting a second gold. If you want to watch an amazing program, chances are they're the ones you hunt up on YouTube, not Gritschuk and Platov. I'd have liked them to win, but that bronze certainly doesn't dent their legacy.

As for Anissina/Piezerat winning bronze over Bourne/Kraatz in 1998, I too resented it for awhile, but then that program grew on me, and I came to enjoy that couple very much.

colleen o'neill · Mar 23, 2010

I felt at the time that T/D were robbed..and try as I might to see it any other way..I really can't. Their Rhumba was ( and still is ) zowie ..and I thought the only real one among the top 3..I detested G/P's FD then and find I still do. Speed at what price ? They seemed wild and scrambly to me and far from dancerly. ( I think that was the first iteration of the Russian penchant for plastering crosses on their skaters..gnash,gnash..but I've tried to look past that) Quite right that the only one of those FDs I want to re-watch every now and then is T/D.

gkelly · Mar 23, 2010

I detested G/P's FD then and find I still do. Speed at what price ? They seemed wild and scrambly to me and far from dancerly. ( I think that was the first iteration of the Russian penchant for plastering crosses on their skaters..gnash,gnash..but I've tried to look past that)

Are you confusing the dancy but arguably wild and scrambly 1994 free dance with the less wild and less dancy 1998 dance with a crosses on the costume?

Ice Dancing at the 1994 and 1998 Olympics

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Mathman

Antilles

ImaginaryPogue

heyang

gkelly

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Antilles

blue_idealist

Puppylove

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Big Deal

Gmichael66

gkelly

nylynnr

gkelly

Olympia

colleen o'neill

gkelly

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