2013 Worlds Ladies SP

Wow at the result. A bit unexpected to be honest.

As for the Americans...they did what they needed to do...a bit disappointed that Wagner held back (again), but maybe it was the right thing to do considering all the bizarre mistakes made by many of her competitors...she is still in decent position and a medal is actually within reach (!) for her if she can deliver in the FS. She MUST put out a strong effort, though. She is first in the final group- this will make it interesting whether she will go for the 3-3 or not.

I was worried about Gold in the SP but am glad she held it together for the most part- even though she botched a spin, she wasn't the only one to do so. She also needs a strong effort but I'm not sure if moving beyond 8th is possible.

If 3 spots are to be achieved, at least ONE of them needs to move up a spot. Gold seemed a bit disappointed after the SP...I wonder if this will fire her up for the FS. She skates first in group 3 (not a good draw for either to be honest)

daniel1406 said:

I'm literally speechless mate...

1. "Mao's 3A was quite solid" : how so? it's clearly two foot landed and should've been downgraded.

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It appears you are speechless because you are not familiar with how our sport actually works, this isn't swimming. Two foot landing and jump downgrade are two completely different animals. Two footed jump doesn't in anyway suggest a jump needs to be UR, much less downgraded. I don't think you understand the difference between Under-Rotation and Downgrade, maybe you should start by differentiating these different terms to begin with?

2. "audiences reactions....." : -_-

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They were the live witnesses and were in a much better position to judge than people who watched it over some scratchy feed with pixel and unstable connections issues. Some people in the crowd are very knowledgeable and experienced based on decades on involvement with the sport, including many former / current skaters, officials (e.g. British Team officials sat behind us during the OD and they were dissecting the level on Virtue/Moir's twizzle) . With a bunch of them together, very few errors in single skating can escape their eyes. In this case, I feel this London crowd really knows their stuff well, those are some pretty hard-core people who are willing to pay thousands of dollars for these tickets + travel and accommodation not just some $12 streaming sites or free internet links.

3. "... felt the jump got enough rotations in" : you FELT. but it didn't. The rotation wasn't finished when she landed.

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Interesting, where did you get this fact from? Because you say so? I provided my assessment on the jump and sometimes, I don't agree with the Tech Panel as was the case with Kevin Reynolds last night but I don't need anyone else to tell me how to render a call. It doesn't make my opinion a fact and I don't expect everyone to agree. You need to understand Figure Skating is not a sport where decisions are made with the precision of a Rolex timer. It's entirely possible a different panel would have called it differently. Yu Na, had in the past, being on both sides of such call. Sometimes, she got lucky, other times, a case could be made that the call was too strict. That's why there are 3 people on the Technical Panel and the majority wins where a consensus is not possible.

4. "the judges didn't have the opportunity to review the jumps on slow-motion replays like you guys do in front of a screen" : really? how come I could tell Mao's 3A was two footed and should get downgraded straight from the live stream? I didn't have to watch it over and over again. And where was the tech judge? why was he/she so generous on Mao not on some skaters?

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FYI, there is no such thing as a "tech judge" in Figure Skating. I appreciate you want to learn more about our sport but clearly, there is still a lot you don't know. There is a technical controller, a technical specialist and an assistant technical specialist. The three of them together formed the "Technical Panel" and these people are never referred as judges, as this term specifically refers to another group of officials who have totally different functions. Whether a jump is fully rotated or not is NEVER determined by a single person. In any event, these people you accused of being lenient on Mao's Triple Axel also happened to UR her Triple Flip in her jump combo. So if there is a pattern of favoritism towards Mao today, I certainly failed to see one. And I am pretty sure in Australia, you guys also require solid evidence before you can reasonably accuse other people of cheating so what evidences do you hold?

5. "I think you can understand why the scoring of this element really isn't controversial at all as many seemed to think" : no I literally do not understand why she got 8.50+0.14 on that 3A.

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I am not surprised, I don't think even Yu Na fans here would want to associate themselves with you because you clearly don't have enough knowledge about our sport to be throwing out these serious accusations on the judging.

FlattFan said:

Caro rotated her 3T just as much as Kim did for 3Lz.
Anyway, the Yuna fans are just too special. Must be crowded under them bridges and every World, they come out to play.

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If you believe that Caro rotated that toe, then you probably think Kimmie was landing quad toes on the back of her combos
And insulting Yuna fans, well isn't that special- at least yuna fans appreciate a beautiful skater.
But given your username- Shrek, is that you?
(oh, I believe you don't give a crap about Rachel anymore- gee, she should be proud to have had a fan like you)

Well done Brooklee Han for having such beautiful elements and skating that qualified her for the free despite only doing a 3toe2toe combo.

The thing about Zhang Kexin is that she has no personality and style whatsoever. Everything she does is nice but she is very forgettable. Li Zijun is much better in this regard. Still, both need to pay a lot more attention to their skating. The lack of musicality in Chinese skaters is a very annoying trend. Like Song, I am glad Li is hanging onto the penultimate group and has a fair chance at keeping 2 spots. Although I think Tuk will move up in the free, so she needs to be solid in the free herself. She has a good chance to beat Meite and Helgesson.

Too bad Gold left her clean 3/3 on warm up ice but I am still glad she went for the 3toe after a rather shaky landing on the 3lutz. She only has herself to blame for messing up a flying camel though. In any event, with the field and the standard of the evening she wasn't going to make the final flight anyway when she messed up 3 elements.

And it's exactly the same story for Sotnikova. Who messes up a layback these days?! With her inconsistent form and awful long program this season, I can't be too optimistic for her. I think it's very likely that she and Tuk would both finish in the bottom half of top ten and Russia will lose its third spot.

Wagner not going for the 3/3 was smart, given how everyone else skated up til that point. She really needs to watch her levels though. She can't lose points to level 3 spins.

Osmond was awesome and deserved 3rd over Murakami IMO.

Kostner deserved 2nd even with the fall because she was that good.

I actually think Kim was underscored on PCS. Her face may be all business like but her body expressions were wonderful.

I see Wagner, Asada and Suzuki moving up in the free and Osmond and Murakami moving down. The title is between Kim and Kostner and the bronze is going to go to whoever between Wagner, Asada and Suzuki that deliver the strongest free.

My take on the short:

Kim
Kostner
Osmond
Wagner
Murakami
Asada

Suzuki
Gold
Sotnikova

My prediction on the final result:

Kim
Kostner
Wagner
Osmond
Asada
Suzuki
Gold
Sot
Tuk
Murakami

daniel1406 said:

I'm literally speechless mate...

1. "Mao's 3A was quite solid" : how so? it's clearly two foot landed and should've been downgraded.
2. "audiences reactions....." : -_-
3. "... felt the jump got enough rotations in" : you FELT. but it didn't. The rotation wasn't finished when she landed.
4. "the judges didn't have the opportunity to review the jumps on slow-motion replays like you guys do in front of a screen" : really? how come I could tell Mao's 3A was two footed and should get downgraded straight from the live stream? I didn't have to watch it over and over again. And where was the tech judge? why was he/she so generous on Mao not on some skaters?

5. "I think you can understand why the scoring of this element really isn't controversial at all as many seemed to think" : no I literally do not understand why she got 8.50+0.14 on that 3A.

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I can't agree with you more. Still don't understand how a skater whose three triples were either failed or underrotated could finish 6th.

wallylutz said:

As far as the judges were concerned, they did not have the opportunity to review the jumps on slow-motion replays.

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This is not true.

Can I just throw something in here? Yu-na Kim fans should be happy today. I don't get why they are not?

Carolina Kostner fans, too.

Kanako Murikami fans, too.

Kaetlyn Osmond fans, too.

Mao Asada fans? There's still Saturday. :yes:

U.S. fans? Ashley, hold steady, Gracie do your thing!

coyotechris said:

just a comment from the peanut gallery. There are some nice yuna posters on the wall here but if this is a sellout crowd, then lots of folk decided to throw away there tickets rather than fill there seats. I cant think of seeing one korean flag being waved that i could see from my angle but i am sure there must be a few. But this is nothing like sa lake placid where the korean folk would pour into the arena for her performance and then leave. Then again , this isnt a cheep event to see!
Old coyote headed for poor house and bed. (look for major report on worlds, everything except skating, when i retuun.) (they ran out out of programs. Rumor of more tomarrow)uote=mrs. P;722564]maybe tickets were sold out before koreans could get them (or realized yuna was competing) -- seems like a good crowd of canadians and americans.

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Some of the seats are empty but mostly in the upper level where arguably the view can be quite crappy. In the lower section, it's very crowded, my hunch is 98% capacity more or less. But in many cases, not everyone can be present all the time even if they bought all event tickets. I do not know if the tickets are sold out or not but it's entirely possible that public tickets were sold out or close to whereas some of the open/empty are unused sponsor ticket / seating. Still very surprised by the lack of Koreans at this event, which explains in part the lukewarm reaction Yu Na got. I know price is not an issue because at the Vancouver Olympics, the ticket prices were far more outrageous than any World Championships, yet there were countless number of Korean fans in the Pacific Coliseum. I expect more will show up during the Free Skate. The strange part is that there is a lot of Japanese fans but no Koreans. Usually, at an event where both Mao and Yu Na attends, you have to be somewhat concerned the two groups will suffocate each other but no, Japanese are here and in big number.

Blades of Passion said:

This is not true.

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I don't understand, why do you feel the need to spread false information?

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/p...52094-169310-31825-132302-custom-item,00.html


Judges

Under the ISU Judging System the Judges focus entirely on evaluating the quality of each element performed (technical aspect) and the quality of the performance.

Their scores will be based on specific quality criteria for each element and will provide a comprehensive assessment of each skater’s skills and performance, without comparing each skater in relation to all others. The Judge enters the scores through a touch screen unit. At ISU Events Judges may review in real time certain sequences of the skaters performances by means of an instantaneous Video Replay System.

There will be a panel of 9 Judges per segment. The scores of these 9 Judges will form the result. Out of these 9 scores, the highest and lowest score of each element or program component are ignored and the average will be taken from the remainder, generating the trimmed mean (average score).


Only the Technical Panel is allowed to use slow-motion replay and even then, only for some specific types of review. Some must be viewed in real-time (e.g. cheated take off, aka. pre-rotation).

guanchi said:

If you believe that Caro rotated that toe, then you probably think Kimmie was landing quad toes on the back of her combos
And insulting Yuna fans, well isn't that special- at least yuna fans appreciate a beautiful skater.
But given your username- Shrek, is that you?
(oh, I believe you don't give a crap about Rachel anymore- gee, she should be proud to have had a fan like you)

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If the isuresults page shows Kimmie's done a 4T in the back of her 3A, I would believe it. And please continue to ROFL at your own joke, I'm sure it's funny to all Yuna's fans. Birds of the same feather, you know.

Mathman said:

U.S. fans? Ashley, hold steady, Gracie do your thing!

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Now I actually want a medal for Wagner because I think she is capable of getting one in this field. She needs to do a TEB skate, with 2A/3T at least, and put her recent troubles behind her. She can do it - but will she?

Gold is a newcomer and shouldn't be pressured to move above her current position. (If she does...well, awesome)

I really want to see Carolina perform a clean program. Not because of the fact that i want her to win, but because i want to see that brilliant program clean with the crowd going crazy.

Wallylutz, do you think it's impossible for a human being to look up at a huge screen monitor that's right in front of them? Just say yes or no.

As a Yuna fan I have a LOT to say about the judging, but I'll hold my tongue since they got the placements right at least. (and going thorough this thread I see most of my grievances have been spelled out by others already.) I simply wish her the best of luck, and I could never fully express my admiration for her to enter her first major competition in nineteen months and to skate a clean program, just like that. 'She doesn't look a day past Vancouver' - right on! I can't imagine the work and dedication she must have put into regaining her Olympic-level skills.

Other than Kim I enjoyed Osmond's program the most. This young lady seems to love home ice - and it loves her back. There are some elements of her skating that needs to be refined but considering her age that's quite understandable. I'm certainly keeping an eye on her!

FlattFan said:

If the isuresults page shows Kimmie's done a 4T in the back of her 3A, I would believe it. And please continue to ROFL at your own joke, I'm sure it's funny to all Yuna's fans. Birds of the same feather, you know.

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goodness. will you stop with the generalization. not all fans of yuna are like that. unlike you.

wallylutz said:

You think 75% but that wasn't the reality. As I posted from the rink earlier today, the reception to Yu Na's SP was polite but somewhat understated. If I have to take a guess, many Canadians are still offended by the lack of tact she showed when she abruptly broke up with Orser after the Olympics despite that Canada nurtured and supported her for all those years even though she was a big rival to Joannie Rochette (without Yu Na, Rochette would have won Worlds in 2009). On the other hand, her performance today also wasn't very inspiring, so there was that as well.

Despite the people in this forum circulating the false information re: ovations, Kanako Murakami also received a fairly large standing O, it wasn't just Osmond. Kanako definitely captured the audience this afternoon. Ashley Wagner also received one, though somewhat smaller as there were many Americans in the stand. Surprisingly, there were quite few Koreans in the crowd, I was expecting a whole army of them as in the past.

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we're in 2013 already. orser moved on. yuna moved on. orser is doing great with his top skaters. yuna is happy in korea. btw, they bumped to each other during practice. he said hi, yuna said hi. so move on.

FlattFan said:

If the isuresults page shows Kimmie's done a 4T in the back of her 3A, I would believe it. And please continue to ROFL at your own joke, I'm sure it's funny to all Yuna's fans. Birds of the same feather, you know.

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Yep, swans, nightingales, eagles, peacocks, swifts- that's just us

You, well... I'm sure vultures have some good, useful qualities, like disposing of corpses

I hope the judges get their freaking eyes fixed or get prescription glasses before the ladies FS. Calling wrong edge on the Yuna's flip, which seemed to be just fine seen on the slo-mo replays, while generously turning blind eyes on so many mistakes in the top group, was plain wrong and disheartening (yet again).

wallylutz said:

many Canadians are still offended by the lack of tact she showed when she abruptly broke up with Orser

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Still? That's one serious lack of confidence issue. It might explain why some people are in need of this therapy to help them feel better about them poor selves:

wallylutz said:

It appears you are speechless because you are not familiar with how our sport actually works, ... I don't think you understand the difference between Under-Rotation and Downgrade, maybe you should start by differentiating these different terms to begin with?

Some people in the crowd are very knowledgeable and experienced ...

I feel this London crowd really knows their stuff well...

You need to understand ...

I appreciate you want to learn more about our sport but clearly, there is still a lot you don't know. ...

And I am pretty sure in Australia, you guys also require ...

I don't think even Yu Na fans here would want to associate themselves with you because you clearly don't have enough knowledge about our sport...

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Wow, you look at this board and you see tonnes of people you have never heard a peep of until world's. it's like almost the playoffs for a lot of sports no one says or does much until it "really" counts. The Americans are looking good for 3 ladies unless the Russian ladies really move up and perhaps Li or Hegellsen or someone. The odds are someone is going to drop quite a bit - Osmond, Gold, hegellson, the French girl maybe even Wagner, Sotnikova, Murakami or Li.

What are the Yuna fans complaining about now? Yuna is in first. Is it because she didn't break another world record for her SP? Got an edge call on the flip? Didn't get +3 GOE across the board?

There are a lot of pages to go through. I don't want to put too much trouble to MaoFan, but she usually posts a list of videos. Can someone link it, pretty please?