Illyushechkina/Moscovitch vs. Moore-Towers/Marinaro

NotSoSweetie · Feb 15, 2015

I'll be honest, if I had my way, we'd still be watching the rivalry between Duhamel/Radford and Moore-Towers/Moscovitch. I think the dynamic between the two teams both in Canada and in the world was SO great for skating. Constantly neck-n-neck, pushing each other. When they split, I was shocked, mainly because I didn't factor age into the mix, I was looking more at chemistry, potential... that being said, when they divided, they found new partners. Which do you prefer and why? If you directly compare them, what do you prefer and from which team?

For me, I prefer Illyusheshkina/Moscovitch. I find them to have more chemistry, he is a STRONG partner, he is arguably one of the strongest male pair skaters around right now (especially the steadiness in lifts). I find with Moore-Towers/Marinaro, I always feel like I'm missing something. I don't know if it's that they don't have matching personalities in my mind or that he hasn't really demonstrated the strength I expect or what, but I'm curious as to the opinions of others, especially at this point in the season.

Apologies if there's another thread out there about this already.

dress · Feb 16, 2015

I'm with you. I prefer I/M.

Marinaro is scary during the lifts. I'm afraid he'll drop kirsten...

Krunchii · Feb 16, 2015

I agree that MT/M 2.0's lifts are really worrisome, had a mini heart attack for their first lift in their LP at 4CCs, could have ended really badly, I feel like the overall skating quality of this team compared to 1.0 is lacking, it seems like Kirsten does all the leading and Michael is just supposed to follow her stead, their 3ThLo is very tilted and I worry each time whether or not Kirsten will land it.

Out of the two I prefer I/M, I really like how they're a little more classical, more grand and are pushing themselves technically, instead of doing the standard 3ThLo and 3ThS that most of the other teams are doing, they're pushing themselves with complicated lift positions and doing a 3ThLz instead. The sbs jumps/spins and the 3Tw is definitely their weakest element but I see lots of potential with them. I think Lubov really skates like she loves being out there, she's a star and Dylan is really strong, I think they're a great partnership and they can only get better from here on out, the chemistry between them is great to see. I just hope they can get better funding.

Overall I think both teams need more time to gel, only time will tell

Bumdid · Feb 16, 2015

Considering that this is their first year together and that Lubov hasn't been in competition in a good two years, what I/M is putting out there is phenomenal, tbh. They do need to work in their unison and Lubov's jumps are iffy sometimes. But they have great chemistry, and continues to improve from one competition to the next. With a little more time, I could see them rising through the ranks easily.

As for Marinaro/Moore Towers, I wonder if they'll be overtaken by Seguin/Biledaou (I don't know if that's the right spelling =P) soon. I feel that they're kinda on a lull and 4cc was definately not a good competition for them. He really needs to work on getting some muscles or something.

gabriele · Feb 16, 2015

I have to go with the prevailing sentiment. Don't have the background to comment on the technical aspects. What I can say though is that the choice of music alone keeps me from watching M-T/M2's more than once when they compete.

I/M are the more interesting pair, imo. They are creative and innovative, I hope for truly unique programs from them.

beabstress · Feb 16, 2015

I prefer I/M, without a doubt. I know that he's done pairs for quite some time, but when I watch Michael Marinaro, I feel like I'm watching someone who just learned pairs moves over the summer and has to think really hard about what he's doing. Also, there doesn't seem to be much chemistry between him and Kirsten. Maybe that will come. But Dylan and Lubov have the chemistry already, and they just look "right" together. Lubov sparkles, and Dylan presents her perfectly.

lyndichee · Feb 16, 2015

Kirsten seems to like her things her way. Someone mentioned this before but I think now Dylan has really becoming a leading man in this new partnership. Marinaro seems to just follow Kirsten around. That split entry into one of their lift (used both in the SP and LP) seems unnecessary since it always looks like Marinaro can't seem to lift Kirsten after. One of these days I'm afraid he's gonna drop her.

Skater Boy · Feb 16, 2015

Right now I and M show far more promise - chemistry, consistency, solid performances and overall programmes technically and artistically especially line. The lifts for MtM are scarey. Yes, the girl can help with timing and such but Marinaro honestly should be able to muscle the lifts if necessary as Kristen is fairly small. They also need to find a heir own style. As for the juniors passing them will that is already the state. Right now with the lifting and chemistry issues one can't see why she left Dylan or passed on Tran who has a world medal. Kristen seems very determined; I wonder if she comes from a wealthy family because her long term goals are pretty lofty and expensive.

Sandpiper · Feb 16, 2015

Both, and neither.

I appreciate I/M on an intellectual level, and what they've put together in such a short time is astonishing. I love their innovation. But I can't seem to connect with them on an emotional level like the rest of the board.

I wanted to root for M-T/M v. 2, but I did so mainly to go against the tide. This whole thing does seem like a mistake at this point. They lack the natural chemistry of I/M. Their technical issues aren't uncommon to a new team, but I am starting to get annoyed at him.

There was one Canadian team I liked, and it was the original M-T/M. As of now, Canadian pairs do nothing for me. Both new teams do have potential, but I'm not rooting for either at this point.

dress · Feb 16, 2015

Bumdid said:
As for Marinaro/Moore Towers, I wonder if they'll be overtaken by Seguin/Biledaou (I don't know if that's the right spelling =P) soon. I feel that they're kinda on a lull and 4cc was definately not a good competition for them. He really needs to work on getting some muscles or something.

I/M were overtaken by Seguin/bilodeau at the nationals. S/B will go at the world championships.

jlmart · Feb 16, 2015

dress said:
I/M were overtaken by Seguin/bilodeau at the nationals. S/B will go at the world championships.

I/M were silver at nationals. S/B bronze. Both are going to worlds.

peg · Feb 16, 2015

dress said:
I/M were overtaken by Seguin/bilodeau at the nationals. S/B will go at the world championships.

Did you mean to say that MT/M 2.0 were overtaken by S/B?

peg · Feb 16, 2015

lyndichee said:
Kirsten seems to like her things her way. Someone mentioned this before but I think now Dylan has really becoming a leading man in this new partnership. Marinaro seems to just follow Kirsten around. That split entry into one of their lift (used both in the SP and LP) seems unnecessary since it always looks like Marinaro can't seem to lift Kirsten after. One of these days I'm afraid he's gonna drop her.

I actually feel like they're a true partnership, with neither partner being a clear lead. And they have both adapted their skating to each other. From interviews, it seems like much of the innovation actually comes from Lubov.

OTOH, with MT/M 2.0, it's clear who's setting the tone. It doesn't feel like a new partnership - just a poorer version of MT/M 1.0 because Michael is a weaker partner.

dress · Feb 16, 2015

peg said:
Did you mean to say that MT/M 2.0 were overtaken by S/B?

You're right. That's what U meant. I did a mistake, and I didn't see it on my phone

Cantilever · Feb 16, 2015

Good thread! I too used to be a big M/M-T fan especially seeing them compete last year at worlds. I agree that I/M is showing a lot of progress in a short time. They do have great chemistry and both seem happy. Isn't that the key to any great partnership! They have some work to do on the jumps and speed / transitions. The lifts are amazing as Dylan is prob the strongest male figure skater skating. Doesn't he do martial arts or some version of it with added strength training? He is the only male doing lifts from one knee.

Now M/ M-T i think this is a real challenge of a partnership. Kirsten isn't looking as fit as other years and seems to be heavier. Maybe its muscle who knows. This is making a much smaller male like Marinaro not be able to lift her proficiently. He looks so small compared to say Dylan. He seems to struggle getting her up into the lift and once he does its scary to see if he can finish the lift properly. They are struggling as well with the 3 twist. She seems to crash into his shoulder each time. Who thinks perhaps they might benefit from a coaching change to improve? Cipres/James did that and theirs skills greatly improved. I think without improvement to their lifts and twist they are really not going to see high scores.

Sabrina · Feb 16, 2015

I loved the old MT/M couple and I was shocked by their separation. I was afraid for Dylan, as for a while he didn't seem to find a partner. But in the end the only one who seem to benefit from the split is Dylan as he looks so good with his new partner. Lyubov is also lucky to skate with Dylan for Canada. Hopefully she gets the Canadian residency, if she hadn't already did this. They are by far my favourite pair in Canada. I wish MT/M good luck, but their future does not look very promising. I think Marinaro needs a skinnier girl to skate with him. Kirsten is too good for him too.

Cantilever · Feb 16, 2015

I wonder after 3 or so competitions KMT is questioning her decision or still believes in the partnership? KMT/M will not be skating at the worlds and after a dismal 10th place finish at 4Continents they definitely have to do some evaluating and improve their skills somehow. Kris Wurtz even left the kiss and cry area before they did. Not a good sign!

Sandpiper · Feb 16, 2015

Cantilever said:
They are struggling as well with the 3 twist. She seems to crash into his shoulder each time.

M-T/M v. 2 have a stronger twist than I/M right now. I know they're not the well-loved couple, but you gotta give them that.

Cantilever · Feb 16, 2015

yes it is stronger agreed. All she needs is a bit more height to avoid the bumping. Not sure they need the extra move before they do it - think they do some sort of "dip" before the twist. I'm sure a twist is one of the tougher elements to master for a new partnership.

Sandpiper · Feb 16, 2015

Cantilever said:
yes it is stronger agreed. All she needs is a bit more height to avoid the bumping. Not sure they need the extra move before they do it - think they do some sort of "dip" before the twist. I'm sure a twist is one of the tougher elements to master for a new partnership.

Hao Zhang got a quad twist going with Cheng Peng in their first season together.

But yes, I expect to see both new teams to improve their twist going forward. (And to be fair, I don't recall the original M-T/M having particularly strong twists, so it's not surprising they didn't immediately nail it with new partners.) And I think the movements before the twist is done to increase the level, with the greater difficulty. I'm not an expert on this though...

Illyushechkina/Moscovitch vs. Moore-Towers/Marinaro

NotSoSweetie

dress

Krunchii

Bumdid

gabriele

beabstress

lyndichee

Skater Boy

Sandpiper

dress

jlmart

peg

peg

dress

Cantilever

Sabrina

Cantilever

Sandpiper

Cantilever

Sandpiper

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