Jason Brown does not plan quad for Worlds
- Thread starter Icey
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- Jan 25, 2013
This is not surprising. Smart of Brown to do if he's inconsistent with it, but seriously, he needs it in his repertoire next season or US figure skating should really put their stock in people who can land a quad (even if Brown is arguably the best US skater PCS-wise).
This must be really frustrating for Max Aaron, who attempts (and fairly reliably lands) three 4S across both programs.
And the ones going to Worlds: a skater who attempts one inconsistent 4T (Farris), who attempts two 4Z and they're usually UR or << (Rippon), and who attempt no quads in either program (Brown).
Brown is lucky that the field has been pretty weak this post-Olympic season, with Chan and Machida out and others struggling, otherwise the US getting 3 spots would have been more miraculous than last Worlds.
This must be really frustrating for Max Aaron, who attempts (and fairly reliably lands) three 4S across both programs.
And the ones going to Worlds: a skater who attempts one inconsistent 4T (Farris), who attempts two 4Z and they're usually UR or << (Rippon), and who attempt no quads in either program (Brown).Brown is lucky that the field has been pretty weak this post-Olympic season, with Chan and Machida out and others struggling, otherwise the US getting 3 spots would have been more miraculous than last Worlds.
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- Dec 29, 2011
How is only Jason lucky with that? He was still the best US men in the GP - that has nothing to do with luck (and Machida was still around at the GP and wouldn't have been at 4CC anyway). If you're talking about worlds, the US men didn't keep the 3 spots yet...
Also, I don't think the field right now is so weak. These guys are inconsistent, but the potential is amazing. 4CC was awesome - and Jason finished 6, even with that DG 4T in the SP.
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Jason needs to work hard to get that quad for next year. He may never get it.
This is not 2010. To be competitive at Worlds there needs to be a quad in the short and two in the long. I'm not crazy about everything being about the quad, but the quad jumps are worth so much now.....
The US needs to look at why their men can't jump AND have quality skating skills.
This is not 2010. To be competitive at Worlds there needs to be a quad in the short and two in the long. I'm not crazy about everything being about the quad, but the quad jumps are worth so much now.....
The US needs to look at why their men can't jump AND have quality skating skills.
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- Jan 25, 2013
The field is weaker. Japan doesn't have a retired Takahashi or Machida (Mura is a question mark, and Uno/Murakami who score better than Kozuka isn't going). Canada doesn't have Chan (and Reynolds' season was awful and is over) - Jeremy Ten can barely land a 3A and even when Nam is practically perfect with a quad he is still placed behind a flawed, quadless Brown (see Skate America). The Russian men aren't looking particularly strong either (although Kovtun should beat Brown at Worlds).
So, a top 5-6 finish is what Farris/Brown can hope for (with Hanyu, Fernandez, Ten most likely ahead of them -- and probably one of Mura/Brezina/Han/Kovtun/Voronov). But if Chan and Machida were also competing that'd be a top 7-8 finish and the 3 spots would be lost. Still, top 5/6 would be a great achievement in their first Worlds.
I could picture is Farris skating close to lights out and ending up 4th, in which case a 9th or better by a quadless Brown is certainly possible. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. Without a quad and a continually inconsistent 3A Brown will not end up better than 6th, I'm predicting (unless the other guys bomb), and it would be top 8 at best if Chan/Machida were there and marginally on.
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All I can say is: See yesterday's NCAA Tournament games for reason why you can have all the hardest skill in the world, but when you don't come to the plate when it counts...watch out.
Jason, technically, is like Georgia State and University of Alabama-Birmingham. Nobody predicted either of those teams to beat much more superior teams. His competition is like Iowa State and Baylor.
GSU and UAB are going to the second round on Saturday. Iowa State and Baylor are going home.
Jason has a competitive mindset and can stay focus on the game. That is valuable in a high-pressure competition like Worlds, quad or not.
Of course, on the other hand, the Cinderellas don't always succeed either, LOL and there are superior teams that are SO good that no amount of grit and determination can make up for that.
However, IMO, there isn't any skater in the World field that is the equivalent of a team like Duke, Arizona, University of Kentucky or Villanova. Yuzuru and Javi are probably the closest, but they have been prone to poor performances.
The current men's figure skating field is full of Baylors and Iowa States. Teams that have the skill, but can be prone to silly mistakes. Actually Jason is more like UCLA -- a team who everyone thought was crazy to be in this tournament field and proved everyone wrong by totally kicking butt in the first round.
And thus end my endless college basketball analogies.
Jason, technically, is like Georgia State and University of Alabama-Birmingham. Nobody predicted either of those teams to beat much more superior teams. His competition is like Iowa State and Baylor.
GSU and UAB are going to the second round on Saturday. Iowa State and Baylor are going home.
Jason has a competitive mindset and can stay focus on the game. That is valuable in a high-pressure competition like Worlds, quad or not.
Of course, on the other hand, the Cinderellas don't always succeed either, LOL and there are superior teams that are SO good that no amount of grit and determination can make up for that.
However, IMO, there isn't any skater in the World field that is the equivalent of a team like Duke, Arizona, University of Kentucky or Villanova. Yuzuru and Javi are probably the closest, but they have been prone to poor performances.
The current men's figure skating field is full of Baylors and Iowa States. Teams that have the skill, but can be prone to silly mistakes. Actually Jason is more like UCLA -- a team who everyone thought was crazy to be in this tournament field and proved everyone wrong by totally kicking butt in the first round.
And thus end my endless college basketball analogies.
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- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Of course, it's understandable if you would rather watch him versus many of the quadsters who aren't nearly as fine a skater as Brown is. However, I thoroughly disagree that the quad is a big ugly jump that does nothing for most programs - it is a standard of difficulty that defines elite men's skating today. I wonder if people like you felt the same way a couple decades ago about a triple axel being a big, ugly jump? Maybe programs should just all be doubles and we avoid all the big, ugly jumps?
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- Jul 31, 2014
There is a difference between saying men should avoid big jumps, and saying we don't want to see ugly messy maybe they will land it jumps.
People try to make a case out of Jason being the only guy at nationals in the top half to not try a quad, well he was also the only skater to not screw up a quad. Max was the only one who had any clean quads, and even he screwed up one of his.
The reality is that not that many men really can and/or should be doing these jumps, they are hoping to land them, not expecting to. I would much rather see one attractive controlled quad than three messy ones across two programs.
People try to make a case out of Jason being the only guy at nationals in the top half to not try a quad, well he was also the only skater to not screw up a quad. Max was the only one who had any clean quads, and even he screwed up one of his.
The reality is that not that many men really can and/or should be doing these jumps, they are hoping to land them, not expecting to. I would much rather see one attractive controlled quad than three messy ones across two programs.
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- Dec 25, 2012
I agree with Jason's strategy for World Championships. Let's see how much he will surprise us all.
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- Jan 25, 2013
He has the ability to, but he hasn't really shown it this season. His programs this year aren't as brilliant as last year unfortunately, and his 3A is still inconsistent. If the quad is the barometer for making the podium at Worlds, a consistent 3A is what you need to even make the top 10.
Ironically, at 4CC where he failed the quad, he ended up getting a personal best. But in the FS, he was 6th (a 5th if the 3Z wasn't <). But still, that's only the 7th best FS score of the guys competing at Worlds, and he has the 9th best SP score of the guys competing at Worlds (that's why I said earlier he's lucky Uno/Murakami/Chan/Machida aren't competing).
Jason can probably clear 250 if he's perfect... maybe 255 if the judges are generous. But without a quad attempt, he likely won't clear 255 (and the top 5 guys going into Worlds have all gotten 259.47 or better). That being said, you never know - Kovtun got 4th with 247 last year... and without Machida that would have been enough for a distant bronze.
The 3A has gotten better as the season gone on. I'm not sure if the errors we saw earlier in the season were Olympic season hangover or what, but his 3A has been fine in the last few competitions. I'm willing to chalk the recent 3A< in 4CC due to having a 4T in the SP (and in that sense, that is valuable data, even though it was costly, competition data, because now they know the impact of messing up the jump has on the rest of the program).
As for possible numbers. His SB for the stwo segments, respectively is 83.59, 167.35. They are from two different competitions, but if you add them up you're at 250.94. So breaking 250 is totally obtainable.
The other lesson with the NCAA Tourney also is that peaking at the right time counts too. Jason seems to have the uncanny ability to peak at the right time be it over a course of a season or at the right point in a four-year Olympic season. So that's another reason not to count him out.
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True. Never underestimate the importance of being able to peak for Nationals and peak again for Worlds.
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- Dec 29, 2011
Again, what is irritating to me is how you said Jason is lucky, as if he was the only one being lucky with the field looking weaker than last season (though I still don't view it as that much of a difference... Reynolds isn't there, but Nguyen is. Takahashi and Machida retired but DTen looks stronger than before and some of the younger ones like Han Yan IMO improved from last season and are getting stronger too).
If you want to focus on the 3 spots, that's not just Jasons job - there are 3 american men going. And Jason doesn't look like the most unreliable out of these. He isn't going into this as national champ because he was lucky, but simply because he was the best american man in the GP + at nationals. That doesn't exactly imply that other american men would have a better shot at defending the 3 spots. (JMO, but I would have felt 'safest' for the spots with a Jason-Josh-Max team, but I can't argue with Adams national LP. So we'll have to wait and see how the chips fall...)
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- Nov 30, 2014
It's a wise strategy. Best to leave this element for next season, or whenever it is "ready". His programs are already solid... I don't see much benefit in changing things at this stage of the season.
Curious though: Around US Nationals, most people seemed tired of hearing about the lack of quads, and that Jason should wait until this element is ready for competition (which looked like next season, at the time.) Later, most folks supported & admired Jason adding the 4T at 4CC. Now it seems opinion has shifted and that it's now a good decision to leave it out at Worlds. Is this just in response to the results at 4CC? Or if Jason had decided to plan a quad for Worlds, would the same support/admiration be offered for that decision as with 4CC, or do you think it would be a bad idea?
Maybe most Jason fans would support him regardless of his planned elements, which makes sense.
Just curious if there was any general thoughts on the quad, whether Jason should or shouldn't be attempting it now or in the near future (which would be the beginning of next season at this point), and how Jason could crack the top 5 at Worlds with relatively "easy" technical elements in his programs, compared to the other top men.
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- Dec 25, 2012
I think it was a good idea to try it at 4CC, where his placement was not too crucial, and to play it safe at WC.
Next season, we'll see. Or rather, Jason and his team will make a decision.
Next season, we'll see. Or rather, Jason and his team will make a decision.
According to the article, two of the three American men must place 6th and 7th or higher to keep these three spots.
I do not see it happening. I can see Farris around 4th-5th with a bit of luck but the highest I can see Brown is 9th. Frankly, I would not be surprised if he missed the top 10 altogether.
I do not see it happening. I can see Farris around 4th-5th with a bit of luck but the highest I can see Brown is 9th. Frankly, I would not be surprised if he missed the top 10 altogether.
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Good questions, Sabinfire. As a Jason uber, I would support his team's position, because I have faith in his team's approach. I did not want the quad at 4CCs because I was afraid that what happened would happen: he would not land it. But I am super duper happy that he fought through it, completed his program with flair, and nailed (IMHO, with a couple stupid mistakes) the LP.
I like Jason because he is consistent, because his programs are artistic and perfectly aligned with his music, and because he actually seems to care if I as the spectator enjoy his skating. Hmmm, what male skating legend of 40-45 years ago also had those characteristics?
I don't care if he ever gets a quad or if he ever places on the podium. But I know Jason cares, and so for him, I would want those placements.Jason's interview was wonderful regarding the quad. To paraphrase: "They told me I wouldn't win juniors without a 3A. I did. They told me I wouldn't make the Olympic team without a quad. I did. I am working on the quad, and when I get it, it will be awesome." Basically, he will follow his own timetable and his own regimen. I'm fine with that.
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- Nov 30, 2014
Yes, odds do not look favorable. Either Farris or Rippon in the top 7 (but both? :hopelessness: ), Jason the bottom of the top 10 (hopefully no lower)... This is where you start imagining crazy/unlikely scenarios.
Edited to fix grammar, posting from mobile phone...
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