- Joined
- Dec 24, 2014
I looked for Skate Canada 2012 but I can not open it because it is now private. Anyway, fortunately I have come to my senses, it is one of my favorite programs ever :yes:.
Maybe you mean this one?
https://youtu.be/vC-2PU_ktaw
Favourite Warhorse Interpretation
- Thread starter TheCzar
- Start date
Maybe you mean this one?
https://youtu.be/vC-2PU_ktaw
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
Didn't McLaughlin/Brubaker skate to this?
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I always felt that if Sasha or Alissa Czisny could have done wonders with Black Swan. They could let the tense side afraid to make a mistake shine through and then totally let it rip, like the character in the film.
Can we all just establish though- Black Swan does not count as a warhorse, because it's a film soundtrack that samples Tchaikovsky. No to demented ballerina arms. Only pure Swan Lake programs count, because there was life before Natalie Portman.
Hence, Ashley Wagner's and Volosozhar/Trankov doesn't count. Even more so- nothing balletic with those programs at all, imho.
Hence, Ashley Wagner's and Volosozhar/Trankov doesn't count. Even more so- nothing balletic with those programs at all, imho.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
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Jason Brown's version also competes for that title - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94pHGvq3Fs
Still impresses me how well he handled that at such a young age.
I really like the elegance of Arakawa's at the Olympics too, it was unique.
Were they referencing the movie rather than the ballet? I didn't see that in their programs. Neither expressed the wild and disturbed mental state of Portman's character in their skating. I also agree that the programs were not balletic nor were they swan like.
On demented ballerina arms, I thought Ashley's swan arms using isolations during her spiral sequence were the best part of her program and the only time I saw her as Black Swan. I don't think Swan Lake necessarily needs to be balletic as long as the performer and the program is true to the characters of either Odette, Odile or Rothbart (Siegfried is too generic a character to be used as a reference). I enjoy modern interpretations if they're done well like Takahashi, who I think makes the best Black Swan after Baiul followed by Cohen. Cohen comes third because she was not swan like in her movements at all but she executed the program beautifully and though she was dressed as Odette exuded pure Odile.
As for the best Odette, it's Yuzu. Mao's version is pretty but not in character- delicacy without the drama while Yuzu has both. White Legend has the yearning and melancholy of Odette who is doomed to be trapped as a swan unless she is freed by love. Yuzu perfectly captures that feeling of Odette who wants to escape her fate. Also, he has the best swan arms I've seen. Even better than Baiul because she doesn't have the ballet fingers but he does (proper Vaganova) and he has much better port de bras then Mao who has a bad habit of keeping tension in her shoulders as they are always slightly raised and pulled back instead of down and relaxed.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I think it's difficult to talk about iconic Swan Lake programs without mentioning I/K's Olympic FD. I've never been a huge fan of either of them, but that program is a masterpiece.
This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm_s-nBSORE
For me is very distracting his posture, ballet+that posture=
hwell:Whenever they skate to 'Black Swan'- it refers to the Black Swan soundtrack which isn't really pure cuts of Tchaikovsky. In fact Ashley Wagner references the film when she talked about her program. I was never a fan of those arms- they just looked jarring and gauche.
Swan Lake is just one of those iconic ballets where its impossible not to choreograph around the ballet because the music is always character driven. Likewise, you cannot refer to the characters in SL without incorporating ballet into it. Odile without her fouettés, Odette and Siegfried without their Pas de Deux (likewise with Odile), Rothbart, the Jester, etc.
Personally, if one could put a composite of Cohen Odette, Baiul's costume, and Asada's step sequence to Odile's music- that would be the best SL Ladies program.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I only like the first minute or less of that dance. The rest is Morosov easy open holds, no transitions, and generic choreography. I know their bronze felt right and they had the largest audience reaction, and not just because Russia but because that opening is eye-catching and Elena/Nikita looked youthful and fresh and very good looking and very good together and Elena had star power, but rewatching Sochi recently made me feel even stronger that Pechelat/Bourzat and Weaver/Poje at least should have placed ahead of them in the FD.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2016
This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm_s-nBSORE
For me is very distracting his posture, ballet+that posture=
I think Fresca is talking about his 2010-2011 SP white legend, which was also his exhibition at the 2012 worlds and sochi.
oh, ok, well, same problem, maybe worse.
This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm_s-nBSORE
For me is very distracting his posture, ballet+that posture=
Yuzu's posture is not balletic but rather modern/contemporary with his very open and articulate torso. The open torso with the curving forwards and backwards over a strong core is one of the foundations of modern/contemporary dance movement. Yuzu's "bad posture" actually forms part of the aesthetic of modern/contemporary dance movement and can be found in many other forms of dance such as jazz, hip hop, swing, tap and blues.
Why does he need balletic posture? He's a swan. A swan does not care about posture - it simply moves with an unconscious natural and sinuous grace.
I never understood this board's fixation with balletic posture and balletic movement in figure skating, especially when there are so many other forms of dance figure skating can borrow from to create programs. Even more ironic is that I can't think of any skater that is truly balletic not even Nathan (where did his ballet training go?) or Patrick (horrible port de bras from a ballet perspective and a stiff upper body with tension in the ribcage and shoulders). Not even John Curry is balletic though this board seems to think he is the be all and end all of ballet in figure skating.
That's why I like them - because they are jarring and gauche. That's Odile. She's meant to be exciting and aggressive.
As you said, the music is character driven. There are so many other forms of dance you can use to express the characters. Why does it need to be classical ballet with the classical choreography? Case in point, Matthew Bourne's version which is a creative triumph. I'd love to see what geniuses like Yang Liping, Wade Robson or Mia Michaels would do with Swan Lake.
Funny you say that as Cohen's version is neither balletic nor does it reference any of Petipa's classic choreography.
To be clear, yes that's right. I was referring to White Legend. His 2016 EX referenced another ballet called The Dying Swan choreographed for Anna Pavlova and set to Saint-Saens "The Swan".
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2015
Thank you Fresca for giving us interesting reviews, it is always interesting to hear professional dancers point of view ! I always enjoy reading your posts .
I didn't go professional but I am a cross-trained dancer (about 14 years total and I started with ballet before branching out to jazz, contemporary, hip hop and ballroom)
My 2 older sisters who I followed into the studio did go professional for a few years but I saw how difficult it was for them even if they booked TV commercials, concerts and variety shows so I decided on another career path after college and only dance now for fun.a.) Odile is exciting and aggressive- but she is equally technically proficient as Odette, and more beguiling and seductive. Choreography seeps out of her and she has an attack. Wagner's arms weren't a tip of a hat to Odile- they seem forced and really unattractive. But to each their own I suppose.
b.) Great shout to Matthew Bourne. I love his production. However we have yet to have a skater refer to his interpretation, and since we're talking about extant programs that have already been- taking his different approach doesn't really apply yet.
c.) Cohen has a carriage which I find pleasing. But hey- you like Wagner's arms, I like Sasha's back.
And yet we have a program like Daisuke's which uses jazz rather than ballet but is true to the character of the Black Swan.
c.) Cohen has a carriage which I find pleasing. But hey- you like Wagner's arms, I like Sasha's back.
I just found it funny that you said it's impossible not to choreograph around the ballet because Swan Lake is iconic and you can't refer to the characters without incorporating ballet into it yet you pick a program that has no ballet or reference to ballet choreography performed by a skater who does not move like a swan.
Your quote: He (Yuzuru) has the best swan arms I've seen. Even better than Baiul because she doesn't have the ballet fingers but he does.
you care about ballet fingers. Anyway, the problem is not if he is relaxed or not, the problem is his position, I don´t know if to say hunchback is too much, but his body (especially upper back and neck) is inclined the 90% of the time. Modern or classic, that is not a correct posture, even for the daily life, let alone dance or figure skating. If you think his posture is good and innovative, you must to think that Rika Hongo and Elena R. are geniuses.
