Sandra Bezic's Thoughts

Sandra:

"I think my challenge has always been when I work with someone is to bring out who they are, their essence and to kind of honor their dream.

And I don't approach them as, oh, I have to turn them into an artist, but to kind of hold up a mirror to them and help them through the journey of self-exploration.

Because that's what makes each performance unique, each skater unique; that's where the magic comes from."​

If you just get a summary, you're going to miss many of the nuances and explorations of the discussion. Sandra is the one speaking through most of the video. It's really a great one, and you can listen while you make dinner.

FSLover17 said:

What's Corridor judging?

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Corridor judging refers to two things

Marking all five program components in a very simialar range without much deviation. In many cases the skating skills mark is used as a hook to decide how to mark the remaining four components. In some cases, maybe a slater is all round at a certain level, but alot of the time, there should be more variation. E.g. Strong skating skills doesnt mean that their interpretation is equally or similarly as strong.

Marking within the corridor also refers to a range of marks the judges need to stay within in order to not be seen as favouring or purposefully marking down skaters.

Wonderful to listen to Sandra. Her Rach 2 for Chen Lu is always one of my absolute favourite.

Here are my thoughts:

1. About Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir's style: I absolutely agree with her that Tessa and Scott has a more theatrical program with different layers of emotions and drama, and it is difficult to go through such a journey of different emotions because there is so many things you have to change according to the music: speed, gesture, complexity of steps etc.. I also agree that the French gave us a more visceral feeling that they are skating as if there is no one, that they are just skating to the music and respecting it.

2. About "breaking things down to analyse" and to put it back together again to make it happen. This cannot be more true, aka The Big Picture theory, and I agree with its importance. It's like an architecture. Take building a cathedral for example. You have the best glass windows, you have the most stunning arcs, you have the tallest towers. you have the best carvings etc, but at the end of the day the MOST important thing is how you put all of these together to make it look good. The way you arrange all these different elements that results in an epic piece of work is called art, originally means "technique" or "craft". Because without such crafting, it is impossible to create a synergy, which is the most important thing in all kinds of art.

3. Carolina's FS: "That's what skating is." - Same phrase can also be applied to her very own work; Rach 2 for Chen Lu. (Btw the way she said it it's just, she was so involved and I am just so touched.)

4. About the style of Eteri's school of skating: "It's not my taste." <- Ditto

5. I wonder about the ambiguity on the term "well-balanced program". In the ISU rulebook, the "balance" is about the inclusion of elements, like there should be this many jumps, that many spins etc. But some skaters have been saying that the "balance" is about the distribution of elements, as a principle of constructing an artistically pleasant program. I wonder if this term was originally meant in the way that Sandra (and foe example David Pelletier) put it. And if so, should it be brought back?

As a side note on Eteri's style...

Carolina's skating style developed for over many years, not just hers skating career, but all the other ladies who skated in similar style. It is something that has at least 20 years of mileage.
Now for Eteri, we see it being done on the fly - and actually, we can see the style being polished - see her latest crop of juniors. While people complain about it, there is this thing: its a work in progress, and maybe in 5-10 years it will be just there. Yeah, it not always works right now, but the potential is there, and I can see how it can be developed into something amazing. For example, see Yuzuru's programs, packed with transitions and steps - a program doesnt have to be empty to be aesthetically pleasing.

moriel said:

As a side note on Eteri's style...

Carolina's skating style developed for over many years, not just hers skating career, but all the other ladies who skated in similar style. It is something that has at least 20 years of mileage.
Now for Eteri, we see it being done on the fly - and actually, we can see the style being polished - see her latest crop of juniors. While people complain about it, there is this thing: its a work in progress, and maybe in 5-10 years it will be just there. Yeah, it not always works right now, but the potential is there, and I can see how it can be developed into something amazing. For example, see Yuzuru's programs, packed with transitions and steps - a program doesnt have to be empty to be aesthetically pleasing.

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I don't think anyone is asking for programs to be empty, but two things should be considered:

1. Intention. If the program has lots of interesting transitions they should be musical and have a purpose. Figure skating is not just about raw difficulty but about blending in difficulty and making it look beautiful. No one was complaining when Jeff Buttle had lots of transitions because they were clever and musical. The program should not be packed full of meaningless movements.

2. Spacing. In order for something to stand out in a performance it cannot be completely cluttered. There has to be time for moves to be finished and noticed by the audience. Here the goal is not emptiness but allowing for special moves to breathe.

Sandra seemed to be complaining about programs with turns for turns sake. Turns shouldn't be an end in themselves.

I am just happy that she mentioned that ShibSibs have extraordinary skating skills and that she admires them a lot because of their ability to use their brother and sister relationship on the ice. It is evident that Dave and Jonathan were expecting a whole different answer, they even eliminated the comments from people talking about her opinion on the Shibs, what a childish behavior .

GF2445 said:

Corridor judging refers to two things

Marking all five program components in a very simialar range without much deviation. In many cases the skating skills mark is used as a hook to decide how to mark the remaining four components. In some cases, maybe a slater is all round at a certain level, but alot of the time, there should be more variation. E.g. Strong skating skills doesnt mean that their interpretation is equally or similarly as strong.

Marking within the corridor also refers to a range of marks the judges need to stay within in order to not be seen as favouring or purposefully marking down skaters.

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GGFan said:

I don't think anyone is asking for programs to be empty, but two things should be considered:

1. Intention. If the program has lots of interesting transitions they should be musical and have a purpose. Figure skating is not just about raw difficulty but about blending in difficulty and making it look beautiful. No one was complaining when Jeff Buttle had lots of transitions because they were clever and musical. The program should not be packed full of meaningless movements.

2. Spacing. In order for something to stand out in a performance it cannot be completely cluttered. There has to be time for moves to be finished and noticed by the audience. Here the goal is not emptiness but allowing for special moves to breathe.

Sandra seemed to be complaining about programs with turns for turns sake. Turns shouldn't be an end in themselves.

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ITA. Some fans seem to get offended when people complain about a program having lots of transitions. Its not having the transitions that's the issue. The issue is that the transitions aren't adding to the program and are, as you said, meaningless. The transitions have to be musical and there for the purpose of making the audience feel something, rather than giving you points. They also should be aesthetically pleasing and show good extension and line.

chapis said:

I am just happy that she mentioned that ShibSibs have extraordinary skating skills and that she admires them a lot because of their ability to use their brother and sister relationship on the ice. It is evident that Dave and Jonathan were expecting a whole different answer, they even eliminated the comments from people talking about her opinion on the Shibs, what a childish behavior .

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Dave Lease absolutely hates Shibs He even spouted that he wants Shibs to medal in Pyeong Chang just because it would certainly mean that they finally get away and say bye, bye. What a jerk.

Ares said:

Dave Lease absolutely hates Shibs He even spouted that he wants Shibs to medal in Pyeong Chang just because it would likely mean that they finally get away. What a jerk.

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This is weird though. He even acknowledged in the past and sometimes now that they have "very good" or "great" skating skills. Yet he sounds like he hates them. For him, Shibs are the Ashley of Ice Dance : you cannot find anything to say if it's not mean.

I quite liked Sandra's commentaries when she worked for NBC compared to Tara who speaks through her nose. It's good that she still gave us insightful remarks regarding the current field.

Just finished watching the interview... I love that Sandra had a lot of depth to her answers. Also, it was strange when TSL kept on trying to get Sandra to say something negative about Virtue and Moir, but she could not stop gushing about them and the French team. Furthermore, they tried to get Sandra to say negative things about Osmond's choice of black swan, but she was so complimentary of her posture and classical styling. It's cringeworthy when TSL tried to get Sandra to agree that Osmond doesn't deserve the PCS she gets and Satoko should get more than her, but I'm glad she refused to go down that pathway. I respect her opinions a lot and think she is a voice of reason and clarity and I love how she refuses to bash skaters.

Anyasnake said:

This is weird though. He even acknowledged in the past and sometimes now that they have "very good" or "great" skating skills. Yet he sounds like he hates them. For him, Shibs are the Ashley of Ice Dance : you cannot find anything to say if it's not mean.

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Dave sells outrage, it's how TSL gets clicks. He bashes the Shibs more now because H/D rising to the top US spot is apparently something a lot of people on the internet are invested in so if he tells them they are being held back to artificially boost the Shibs he'll get reactions. This is what he used to do (albeit more overtly) on Aunt Joyce as well. He never sticks to a consistent opinion because he essentially runs the online version of a trashy gossip rag.

Anyway, I finally sat through the whole thing and Sandra was lovely and insightful, as always. I find myself especially agreeing with her on appreciating authenticity in skating. I also prefer Zhenya over Alina because I think she is a more authentic performer and she understands her own programs more. I find Alina "juniorish" not because of her choreo which is extremely difficult for a 15 year-old but because it sometimes feels like she doesn't know why she does it. She has a tendency to go through the motions even though as Sandra says "she has probably been told not to rush a hundred times in practice". When I watch Carolina skate her free I see someone who has truly intellectualized her choreo, who understands why and how it is designed to fit the music. She skates with more intention, her interpretation is "fuller" in a way. This is where the true gap in experience lies imo even though turn for turn Eteri's step sequences are undoubtedly more intricate.

johnsmith72 said:

Just finished watching the interview... I love that Sandra had a lot of depth to her answers. Also, it was strange when TSL kept on trying to get Sandra to say something negative about Virtue and Moir, but she could not stop gushing about them and the French team. Furthermore, they tried to get Sandra to say negative things about Osmond's choice of black swan, but she was so complimentary of her posture and classical styling. It's cringeworthy when TSL tried to get Sandra to agree that Osmond doesn't deserve the PCS she gets and Satoko should get more than her, but I'm glad she refused to go down that pathway. I respect her opinions a lot and think she is a voice of reason and clarity and I love how she refuses to bash skaters.

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Exactly my impression! When you're a true fan of the sport, for what it has been throughout its history, there a many eloquent, knowledgeable, and respectful ways to have conversations about what it is today, and the different approaches to creating and presenting competitive programs.

moriel said:

As a side note on Eteri's style...

Carolina's skating style developed for over many years, not just hers skating career, but all the other ladies who skated in similar style. It is something that has at least 20 years of mileage.
Now for Eteri, we see it being done on the fly - and actually, we can see the style being polished - see her latest crop of juniors. While people complain about it, there is this thing: its a work in progress, and maybe in 5-10 years it will be just there. Yeah, it not always works right now, but the potential is there, and I can see how it can be developed into something amazing. For example, see Yuzuru's programs, packed with transitions and steps - a program doesnt have to be empty to be aesthetically pleasing.

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The actual difference between Hanyu’ programmes and Eteri girls’ is.. Hanyu. Enough said.
The big

johnsmith72 said:

Just finished watching the interview... I love that Sandra had a lot of depth to her answers. Also, it was strange when TSL kept on trying to get Sandra to say something negative about Virtue and Moir, but she could not stop gushing about them and the French team. Furthermore, they tried to get Sandra to say negative things about Osmond's choice of black swan, but she was so complimentary of her posture and classical styling. It's cringeworthy when TSL tried to get Sandra to agree that Osmond doesn't deserve the PCS she gets and Satoko should get more than her, but I'm glad she refused to go down that pathway. I respect her opinions a lot and think she is a voice of reason and clarity and I love how she refuses to bash skaters.

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I hear you and totally agree! As I mentioned in my updated Post (as I rewatched to see reactions), Dave's eyes at 39:39, were like Snowballs from Hell, as a result of just being schooled by Sandra, especially with her support of Kaetlyn's Classics due to skating skills, as she referenced.

Dave was more in the Bette Midler/Broadway camp and Sandra shut that down, saying you want more in an Olympic year. He looked rather ...annoyed afterwards.

Remember this is the same TSL trio (with the new female co-host, not Jenny) that called Kaetlyn's Piaf "a total cheesecake factory" last season after the debut, and then announced post Worlds, we knew she would podium, we predicted "it".

Yes predicted was it, when...bandwagon much? Please

Osmond4gold said:

I hear you and totally agree! As I mentioned in my updated Post (as I rewatched to see reactions), Dave's eyes at 39:39, were like snowballs as a result of just being schooled by Sandra, especially with her support of Kaetlyn's Classics due to skating skills, as she referenced.

Dave was more in the Bette Midler/Broadway camp and Sandra shut that down, saying you want more in an Olympic year. He looked rather ...annoyed afterwards.

Remember this is the same trio (with the female co-host) that called Kaetlyn's Piaf SP "a total cheesecake factory" last season after debut, and then announced after Worlds, we knew she would podium, we predicted "it".

Yes, predicted...bandwagon much? Please

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Yes to all. I never miss an episode of TSL (because I love agreeing and disagreeing with their thoughts/opinions). Each season, Dave makes certain critiques/analysis about certain programs and skaters, and instead of pushing for an open, two-way conversation, he expects to end it by having his guests agree with him. Jenny was always quick to say "we can agree to disagree..moving on..." Not to say I question his expertise, but often times he forgets his opinions are not facts (just like countless posters on this message board, lol). But back to Sandra, she could have easily said "I just don't like it" instead of "it's not my taste," but she knows that when you're in the public eye, words matter. I have no doubt Dave will get there (and in fact, I find him somewhat more professional than 4 years ago).

GF2445 said:

Sandra is marvellous.

Note: TSL posted two videos for the GPF- one with and one without Sandra.

I really appreciated what Sandra said that figure skating is about looking at big picture and asking youself, who on the night was the winner, as opposed to the dissection of elements and the components.

A good analogy to this is making a cake.
You can have the best, top quality ingredients to make a wonderful cake, but if you don't make it correctly, the final product would not be a success. Technical elements are a bit like the flour and sugar- they are essential components, but a cake is made up of more ingredients than just flour and sugar- like a figure skating routine is more than just well executed techncial elements. The program has to mean something and be relatable.

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This exactly describes why I can’t get excited about skating right now. Too many ingredients, not enough cake. I want to see cakes, people, CAKES!!!!

watched despite my dislike of the TSL
OT but what I (as a non native english speaker) like about her is that she has a lovely voice & pronounciation I can understand & generally enjoy as practice

knew her opinions on most aspects from before but still was an intresting listen
Great respectful tone which I appreciate even when I disagree (that backloading automatically should imply loss of points on the presentation side I totally disagree with) :agree:
more of such interviews I say

Sugarpova said:

watched despite my dislike of the TSL
OT but what I like about her as a non native english speaker that she has a lovely voice & pronounciation I can understand & generally enjoy as practice

knew her opinions on most aspects from before but still was an intresting listen
Great respectful tone which I appreciate even when I disagree (that backloading automatically should imply loss of points on the presentation side I totally disagree with) :agree:
more of such interviews I say

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Just to clarify, Sandra was born and raised in Canada (her parents are Croatian, I believe). She probably grew up bilingual but she is definitely a native speaker of English. As for accent, I don't know... Canadian?

MiraiFan said:

Just to clarify, Sandra was born and raised in Canada (her parents are Croatian, I believe). She probably grew up bilingual but she is definitely a native speaker of English. As for accent, I don't know... Canadian?

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I certainly didnt mean she wasnt native speaker sorry :giveup:
I meant I am

"I hate that box!!" was lulzy