Now that it's over...the Bolero LP

rain · Jan 16, 2005

I must say, I am disappointed in Kwan's long program. I'm not in any way disputing her win here (though I think it would have been interesting to see how, even with Cohen's fall, the two programs would have stacked up under the new judging system), but I think this program is eminently beatable. Knowing the judging and the pedigree of Kwan at nationals, I think she would have had to fall on her butt several times to lose, but I don't think this is a great program. A lot of skating around and jumping, with an admittedly effective final footwork sequence. But on the whole, lacking in content. I found Cohen's program to have a lot more in the way of in-betweens, that will help her come Worlds. Seeing Kwan's program, I was instantly leery on how it will stack up to say, Slutskaya or Arakawa, or even Rochette for that matter under the new judging system. Kwan may have enough of a reputation to carry her with that sneeky second mark, but on the whole, I think this program is a bore.

Lest you all think I'm just one of those that hates Kwan, I wanted to qualify my remarks by making it clear I am speaking as a fan of hers who's just trying to be objective and honest about what she's putting out there this year.

StillBlueLake · Jan 16, 2005

rain said:
I found Cohen's program to have a lot more in the way of in-betweens, that will help her come Worlds.

Seriously, not being snarky, but where?

Cohen's program is simply not anymore loaded than Kwan's. Both have a few extra turns, but both also have plenty of crossovers.

kyla2 · Jan 16, 2005

CoP

If you don't think Michelle and Rafael are going to have to beef up the jump combinations for the SP and Lp under the CoP, think again. I don't know if you have seen Irina skate this season, but she is on a real roll this time. I think under CoP Sasha actually has less to worry about than Michelle. Yes, Michelle's spins are improved and that helps, but her layback is unchanged. Irina's programs are typically loaded and Bolero, while it could be a masterpiece, needs some more content.

StillBlueLake · Jan 17, 2005

Irina landed five triples to win both the GPF and Russian Nationals.

Though I agree that MK will most likely do at least a 3toe/2loop at Worlds.

Mathman · Jan 17, 2005

thisthingcalledlove said:
The Pas De Deux, for some reason, I think works better with another person on the ice with you...that's why it's called a Pas De Deux.

show 42 · Jan 17, 2005

Irina landed five triples to win both the GPF and Russian Nationals.

That seems like a minimal amount of jumps to win both of those events. I know the GPF uses CoP.......is it the same for the Russian Nationals? Doesn't seem like five triples and tweaking other elements to be CoP ready is out of range for Michelle or Sasha. 42

Piel · Jan 17, 2005

I agree Show. Both Kwan and Cohen's skating is more refined than Slutskaya's how that wil be judged under CoP is anyone's guess. Michelle's program is more subtle while Irina is playing a character I think.. Can the judges apprediate the differences? Irina will have the home ice advantage which is fine, it's her turn. She also seems to be the sentimental favorite because of coming back from so much adversity. That's where the "judging what actually takes place on the ice" may get a little fuzzy. Some claim this is what happened with Kwan at Nationals going after tying MVO's record. Most rational people agree that she was the clear winner, though.

attyfan · Jan 17, 2005

Irina won GPF under the CoP, but won Russian Nats under the 6.0 system.

Ladskater · Jan 17, 2005

To me, the Bolero music belongs to Torvil and Dean - it's their signature piece. Watching Kwan skate to it did nothing for me, emotionally. I kept thinking of Torvil and Dean and the magic they created with that music. Kwan skated okay, but just skated to it. Torvil and Dean took an otherwise mundane piece of music and captured the meaning of the music.

As for Sasha, I love her skating to anything by Tchaikovsky and yes, had she not fallen she could have taken the gold. I think she gives into the pressure and hype around Michelle. It's not easy skating in someone else's shadow all the time. Sasha looked very disappointed.

Anyway, the day belongs to Kwan, so we should be happy for her.

show 42 · Jan 17, 2005

Thanks attyfan, for the info...........42

Piel · Jan 17, 2005

Ladskater said:
To me, the Bolero music belongs to Torvil and Dean

I know lots of people feel that way. OTOH since Chris Dean choreographed Michelle's program I take that as his seal of approval for her to use the music. In a way it is an interesting continuation of Christopher's vision of Bolero. I would be interested in hearing his opinion of Michelle's performances.

equestrianguy · Jan 17, 2005

Yes, Michelle's performance wsn't the best..but I do see a lot of improvement in her jumps and spins. Bolero is a work in progress, like MK has said many times.. I have to give her credit for trying new things. Working with new people and different coaches.. Thats how we all learn in life.. I do wish she would have kept the other ending to Bolero.. Falling to her knee and sliding to a stop at the ending.. I think this would flow with the music better..instead of trying to hit the exact ending with a pose.. I am at least glad this program is not her Oly LP for next year, hopefully.. Although, MK knows when she has to peak..and she is well trained enough to be ready to peak at Worlds.. I do love her SP "Sparticus" this year though.. Beautiful choreography and it suits her well... That circular footwork she did for that program is the best I have ever seen her do.. and the final pose really draws you in...

Vash01 · Jan 17, 2005

I wish she had used Spartacus for her LP and Bolero for her SP. On the positive side I do see her jumps being stronger, and she has added some variation in her spins. I definitely liked her old ending. This one seemed awkward, and inconsistent with the music.

3ggi3 · Jan 19, 2005

Sasha needs more intent programs (a la Malaguena).
Michelle should go back to Lori Nichol.
I think CoP is a robotic, senseless, judging system.
Can computers react sensitively?

sk8addict · Jan 29, 2005

Sasha would have won

nubka said:
Now that we have seen Michelle's performance tonight in the Bolero LP, does anyone here think that Sasha could have taken the gold medal IF... she had skated a clean LP? I honestly don't know... I did feel that Sasha's LP had more content to it.

Out of both of Kwan's programs, I definately liked her SP best (the music was sooo beautiful and so was the choreography.) Bolero seemed kind of empty.

I know the Nutcracker has been used a lot through the years, but I thought that the music really suited Sasha.

Shasa would have won with her skate if the usfsa had not held over the 6.0 system so that Michelle could tie the 9 record.

bronxgirl · Jan 29, 2005

Why? Does the COP reward falls too?

sk8addict · Feb 2, 2005

6.o

nubka said:
Now that we have seen Michelle's performance tonight in the Bolero LP, does anyone here think that Sasha could have taken the gold medal IF... she had skated a clean LP? I honestly don't know... I did feel that Sasha's LP had more content to it.

Out of both of Kwan's programs, I definately liked her SP best (the music was sooo beautiful and so was the choreography.) Bolero seemed kind of empty.

I know the Nutcracker has been used a lot through the years, but I thought that the music really suited Sasha.

Lets face it! usfsa kept the 6.0 another year so Michelle could tie the record at 9. Sasha would have won in COP even with the fall!

sk8addict · Feb 5, 2005

learn the cop

bronxgirl said:
Why? Does the COP reward falls too?

No cop rewards difficulty & MK left hers in 1998. Total points is what counts. Lets just watch worlds & see. Triple -doubles & backward skating won't win.

MidnightNess · Feb 7, 2005

Lets face it! usfsa kept the 6.0 another year so Michelle could tie the record at 9. Sasha would have won in COP even with the fall!

very very doubtful. Sasha's Nutcracker as it was at Nationals is very un-cop oriented (as is Michelle's) . She and Michelle were actually on par with each other at Nationals. They probably matched each other on spirals and footwork. Sasha's spins with the sole exception of her flying spin are all level 1 as are Michelle's spins. Sasha had two combos as did michelle but sasha only had 4 clean triples. It would have come down to the components scores most likely.

Kuchana · Feb 8, 2005

sk8addict said:
Lets face it! usfsa kept the 6.0 another year so Michelle could tie the record at 9. Sasha would have won in COP even with the fall!

Err...doubtful. But to each his own. And please get your facts straight about why the USFSA kept the 6.0 system one last time this year and no it wasn't so that Michelle could tie the record at that. :sheesh: Even if the USFSA had changed to the COP system, I don't think Sasha would have outrightly won just because of that.

Now that it's over...the Bolero LP

rain

StillBlueLake

kyla2

StillBlueLake

Mathman

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan

Piel

On Edge

attyfan

Custom Title

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan

Piel

On Edge

equestrianguy

Vash01

3ggi3

sk8addict

bronxgirl

sk8addict

sk8addict

MidnightNess

Kuchana

Similar threads

Connect with us