Concussions in Figure Skating | Golden Skate

Concussions in Figure Skating

B

bevybean

On the Ice
Joined
May 26, 2017
As it has been suggested, I'm starting a new thread for this topic since it took over the Ashley Wagner Body Issue Thread.

Short and very brief re-cap:
  • Ashley Wagner has had 5 bad concussions that have caused long lasting cognitive issues
  • Evan Lysacek had had 15-20
  • They clearly aren't the only ones to deal with this issue.
  • Helmets get mixed reviews by the GS forum members as they won't protect against all concussions and may even cause other problems
  • Crashe and Ice Halo are options, but not as good protection as a helmet.
  • More research needed


What should be done to address the issue? Other thoughts?
 
I hit my head and ended my skating career doing crossovers....Now, even if we'd had helmets, I don't think I would have worn it until I started training jumps at my practice sessions. That would be like wearing a helmet to do across the floors in dance class. It's not something you think about. I would imagine that gymnasts could use helmets for training but, even the light ones would be cumbersome while rotating in the air.

I remember learning a difficult dance lift and my partner was given a helmet. She said it through her off her center making it difficult for her to turn. She was actually more afraid of falling while turning than from our lift. Personally, after getting hit in the mouth TWICE by the helmet while lifting her I was equally afraid of them. If they design a thin helmet that could be wrapped in a soft outer casing, I think that could work. The problem I see is that even with a helmet, a skater who is dropped from an overhead lift will still feel the "Impact" of the fall. That's why football players still get concussions even with the most sophisticated helmets in world.

Performing in helmets would be as bad as gymnasts or dancers performing in helmets.....It would never work.

Have you guys seen these? While searching for head protection for figure skaters I found this picture. It's called an Ice Halo There's a thick piece flexible rubber covered by faux fur..:http://www.icehalo.com/admin/includ...h=513&height=513&r=224&g=216&b=189&quality=90
 
I remember seeing video of Doug Ladret and Isabelle Duchesnay training in helmets after returning to the ice from head injuries, but well before competition day.
 
gkelly said:
I remember seeing video of Doug Ladret and Isabelle Duchesnay training in helmets after returning to the ice from head injuries, but well before competition day.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to hear how they felt about training in them. Did they ever discuss it?
 
I think they did briefly in those TV fluff pieces,which don't seem to be available online. You could search as well as I for any articles that might be out there.
 
About people suggesting that skaters use helmets only in practices. Does not it affect training with a helmet and competing without it? For the jumps. Balance, the center of gravity? aerodynamics?
 
I would say I am not very scared of single skaters in this aspect. The pair skaters though, have it much harder.
 
I worry about spinning as much/if not more than falling. Isn't it true that the spins can also cause concussions? I'm a huge fan of the headless spin but wonder what that might be doing to the brain after being performed over and over again.
 
Arriba627 said:
I worry about spinning as much/if not more than falling. Isn't it true that the spins can also cause concussions? I'm a huge fan of the headless spin but wonder what that might be doing to the brain after being performed over and over again.
Click to expand...

Yes. Lucinda Ruh is just one example of skaters who have spoken out about spins and brain issues.
 
My daughter skates on a high level synchro team and it seems we have at least 1 skater a year out for awhile with concussions. We do impact tests which are screenings that are done pre-concussion so that if you do hit your head your doctor has a baseline to compare to. However, after a scary fall recently the parents were talking about the ice halos for practice. However, we know the coach would have to require all skaters to wear them or they never would.

In synchro it's not the jumps that cause the concussions but often the odd falls, like someone falling out of a triple twizzle or being thrown off the end of a wheel. We recently had a skater in our club quit skating all together after multiple concussions. She was actually wearing the ice halo when she fell the last time and her mother just said that was enough.
 
Totmyanina's concussion...I remember that terrifying moment when her partner Marinin stumbled during lift and dropped her on ice. They are just so lucky and strong, physically and mentally that could continued after that. And not JUST continued.
My point is even helmets can't help with that kind accidents in pairs skating, which is most dangerous discipline, especially for ladies.
 
And they should to learn how to fall. It is not possible that someone like Anna P. has only super scary falls.
 
The issue of enforcing rules came up before: Skating federations have no authority over the rinks and therefore might have a hard time enforcing any regulations. What about coach education and enforcement that way? As a parent, if my daughter's coach told me that she really needed padding or other protection, I'd certainly listen to that.

There still seems to be a big question mark about what head protection would work though. I do think the crashe (http://crasche.com/) is a bit more substantial than the ice halo. But it does have a warning on it that says (paraphrasing) It is better than nothing, but doesn't really protect your head.

I definitely think ideas about neck strengthening exercises and learning how to fall would help.
 
I think there are a lot of issues mixed in here.

If a helmet can be designed that would allow for the movement in the sport, it would well be worth it.

If one could, then athletes brought up wearing them would wear them. Just as kids brought up wearing bicycle helmets wear them as adults.

If all the athletes were brought up wearing them, they would be learning the skills with the equipment in place and in mind.

Is the concussion rate in gymnastics and dance as high as it is in skating? Gymnasts at least work above a mat. Ice is such as unforgiving surface and the skaters fly across ice at a faster rate than dancers across a floor.

Ice dancers do not rotate in the air, but they seem to suffer as many concussions as athletes in the other disciplines. It's clear that head injures are not only caused by jumps and pairs throws, i.e. the elements we think of as the big tricks.

As many people here have mentioned, I would assume that there is not an effective helmet design for figure skaters at this point in time. My gut says that if there were, then athletes like Hanyu, Gabriella Papadakis, and Josh Farris would be wearing them consistently. Choosing to wear them on a regular basis, rather than worrying about revisiting the challenges and long recovery times they have faced in the past.

But I do think there is a need. An effective design would really be a valuable tool for the sport.
 
Nika09 said:
Totmyanina's concussion...I remember that terrifying moment when her partner Marinin stumbled during lift and dropped her on ice. They are just so lucky and strong, physically and mentally that could continued after that. And not JUST continued.
My point is even helmets can't help with that kind accidents in pairs skating, which is most dangerous discipline, especially for ladies.
Click to expand...

That is exactly the fall I was thinking off. Even with a helmet, the "Impact" of falling onto solid ice from the extended arms of her partner would not have saved her from a concussion. It might have saved her from a cut but, that's it. That's the problem with concussions, the lack of blood..........There's a saying in American football....."He Got His Bell Rung" It basically means that a player has been hit so hard in the head that he doesn't know where his is. However, because they're not bleeding, the trainer rarely checks them out.

Here's a 5min clip from a documentary called "Bell Rung" it discusses head injuries, concussions and the dementia that they can cause later in life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU2yWKbKawc
 
Ice Dance said:
I think there are a lot of issues mixed in here.

If a helmet can be designed that would allow for the movement in the sport, it would well be worth it.

If one could, then athletes brought up wearing them would wear them. Just as kids brought up wearing bicycle helmets wear them as adults.

If all the athletes were brought up wearing them, they would be learning the skills with the equipment in place and in mind.

Is the concussion rate in gymnastics and dance as high as it is in skating? Gymnasts at least work above a mat. Ice is such as unforgiving surface and the skaters fly across ice at a faster rate than dancers across a floor.

Ice dancers do not rotate in the air, but they seem to suffer as many concussions as athletes in the other disciplines. It's clear that head injures are not only caused by jumps and pairs throws, i.e. the elements we think of as the big tricks.

As many people here have mentioned, I would assume that there is not an effective helmet design for figure skaters at this point in time. My gut says that if there were, then athletes like Hanyu, Gabriella Papadakis, and Josh Farris would be wearing them consistently. Choosing to wear them on a regular basis, rather than worrying about revisiting the challenges and long recovery times they have faced in the past.

But I do think there is a need. An effective design would really be a valuable tool for the sport.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent point....I'll try to explain my fall. When I fell, I was doing easy crossovers. I actually fell on my side, landing on my hip. I braced myself with my arms bent to stop my head from hitting the ice. I got my head injury from the boards/wall not the ice, because my momentum continued and I slid into the boards head first....I hope that made sense.
 
gkelly said:
I remember seeing video of Doug Ladret and Isabelle Duchesnay training in helmets after returning to the ice from head injuries, but well before competition day.
Click to expand...

Doug Ladret had a skull fracture...and I recall an article specifically discussing why it was necessary to wear a helmet while the fracture was healing, and not because of concussion....but naturally can't track it down now....;)
 
bevybean said:
The issue of enforcing rules came up before: Skating federations have no authority over the rinks and therefore might have a hard time enforcing any regulations. What about coach education and enforcement that way? As a parent, if my daughter's coach told me that she really needed padding or other protection, I'd certainly listen to that.

There still seems to be a big question mark about what head protection would work though. I do think the crashe (http://crasche.com/) is a bit more substantial than the ice halo. But it does have a warning on it that says (paraphrasing) It is better than nothing, but doesn't really protect your head.

I definitely think ideas about neck strengthening exercises and learning how to fall would help.
Click to expand...

I suspect the legal context is country specific.

In Canada, Skate Canada strictly enforces a helmet requirement for all skaters up who have not fully completed CanSkate 5 [basic skating]. So any Skate Canada session or event has to respect that or lose their liability insurance.

Incidentally, skaters can 'skate up' in assessments and participate in events, but they have to wear a helmet. There is boilerplate helmet requirement messages in STARSkate event announcements -- all skaters without CanSkate 5 must wear a helmet and judges can't penalize them. And yes, I've seen skaters do tests or compete in STAR 1 events in helmets. [This would be a similar level to pre-preliminary C in the US.]

I agree about the coaching...and it's not just protective padding etc. It seems that the way some coaches teach, or at least the technique they favour, leads to concussions happening more frequently....while some other coaches basically don't have skaters getting them or that it's very rare....

Lastly, ice management is an issue....different clubs have different approaches to this...and it's not all equal.
 
Bug off with "research is needed before we make a single policy change." In reality, it's essentially the same position as keeping the status quo. Exactly, what has the USFSA done, since the public has found out about the numerous concussions of Evan, Ashley, Rachael, Josh?

Is the USFSA commissioning new studies at universities next to skating rinks, to test and develop figure skating helmets, or neck braces, shoulder harnesses, or headbands, etc, on skaters and find ones impede movement the least, or absorb shock, or change the center of gravity least significantly?
(Hint: no)

Do you see USFSA officials going to the big training centers in southern California, Colorado, or Michigan with big boxes of different head and neckgear with different materials to see which ones skaters find acceptable? Are they even trying to make butt pads cool?
(Hint: no)

Rachael Flatt, who advocates for better education on concussions and has had a half dozen concussions herself, can't even get the USFSA to have a concussions section on their website. Can't get to them to make education videos and an official protocol. If I remember, the USFSA said something to the effect of, oh yeah, there's a lot of medical literature on concussions. We're not going to put all of them on our website, but uhhh, here's a word document. Is that okay, Rach?

Rachael Flatt, who competed in the Vancouver Games, said she suffered from a half-dozen concussions as a kid.

Jody Flatt, Rachael’s mother, has spent the past year lobbying U.S. Figure Skating’s parent committee and others to illuminate the problem.
Click to expand...
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/19/concussion-protocols-not-uniform-at-skating-rinks/



If there's literally nothing that can be done to decrease the forces on skaters' brains (or if skaters' brains aren't worth the research money), then there has to be a fundamental change in the sport. If we can't protect our skaters from suffering whiplash from 20 mile per hour falls, then we can't let our skaters go 20 mph anymore. Either fix it or don't do it anymore, because the current state of the sport is unacceptable.

My suggestions:
  1. Find out what moves require skaters to move really fast, say 20 mph
  2. Stop rewarding those high-speed moves at Nationals. For example, if triple flips require skaters to go up to 20 mph, make a triple flip and a double flip worth the same amount at Nationals. Skaters are going to be doing double flips real fast if there's no reward for additional risk.
  3. Start encouraging moves that don't require high speeds. Make figure skating about slow artisty programs or something. Let's change what figure skating is about and make it safer for the athletes.

Yeah, our skaters probably won't win a thing at international competition. Pull out of the ISU. How bad do we want medals anyway?


You probably think no one notices when people poo-poo helmets and concussions, but parents of young children notice. They notice when the top glamorous skaters reveal they had multiple head traumas and suffer lifelong side effects. They notice the indifference from the figure skating governing body and the hemming and hawing from current skaters. When it's time to sign up little Susie or Timmy for a sport, they won't choose figure skating. Who is going to risk their kids' brain cells?
 
Concussions must be fairly common among elite skaters, but I wonder if anyone's even done any kind of survey to see how common they are for non elite skaters? Just anecdotally, I don't know THAT many people who would fit under the category of frequent skaters around the level of practicing double jumps, or doing silver dances, that have had one. Almost all of those I know who jump wear hip pads or padded shorts. In contrast, there are very few recreational hockey players I know (about the level of having played at a serious high school level) who have NOT had one. I don't know that many people who do synchro, but I can see how having to stay tight in formations might make it more dangerous than singles. I still think skating at the level that most people do might on average have less concussions than many of these other team sports, like soccer, hockey, and football. However, we don't really know if there hasn't been any study.
 
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