2012 NHK Ladies Free Skate

[emma]

I have mixed feelings still - or a different mix of feelings - now that I watched on my big screen. Ok, just the same mix of feelings but some are clearer - the clearer part is I saw much more of Mao's 'blade to ice' abilities as MM mentioned. I just still feel strongly that some of her components should have been lower (like P/E and perhaps In); I really could have accepted her score a few points lower and her placement in second overall yesterday...I still think that's how is should have worked out, but after seeing these qualities, I guess I can also see (again) what the judges do see. It is, though, seemingly a fairly serious problem with CoP.

anyway, it's nice to see Mirai skate with some commitment/confidence - perhaps enjoyment of it even.

 

[R.D.]

Tara is beside herself: "I don't know how that was judged."

Eurosport guys were much more blunt: "a travesty of justice" or something like that.

I wonder if the ISU is waiting until the you-know-what hits the fan to finally fix this issue with the system...

 

[miki88]

Akiko was indeed musical in every aspect of her free skate in NHK. Mao was a bit off the music and that step sequence was gorgeous when mute on, but it was slow to death and had very shallow edges that I couldn't believe it was Mao who was doing the step sequence.

I don't know what you were seeing but this was certainly not true of her step sequence. On the contrary to being slow, it felt a bit rushed at times.

 

[skatinginbc]

IMHO Mao's blade-to-ice skills are a cut above the field, as are her performance skills.

That's exactly what I meant: If you analyzed it into parts, it wasn't so bad of a performance at all.

 

[emma]

^skatinginbc - I really know what you mean with the analyzing parts thing; and again, I think we have seen this problem before with other excellent skaters who had, overall, bad skates. In other cases, it was falling - and that really gets people riled up (me too), here it was doubling more than anything. But, it just still feels wrong that the whole is not only NOT greater than the sum of the parts, but completely lost in summing the parts if that makes any sense.

I so admire gkelly and a number of other posters who can both, break it down for us to see the summing and why the individual scores are what they are, identify problems, and ask questions in an effort to make the system better. I, unfortunatley, have neither the fortitude nor stamina to ask such questions - but i do wonder more simply: had Mao received a few lower components and come second or even third overall, how would most fans (on this board) have felt about the scoring? the system for scoring?

 

[CoyoteChris]

I was really happy for Mirai. I hadn't seen her skate that well in awhile. Her body has obviously changed a lot, but she still landed everything! Good job, Mirai!

Ditto. I watched Mao and Mirai on the big screen a few hours ago (I am a fan of both of them) and will watch them again tonight. While I am not knowlegable enough to comment on the two programs in the light of the new scoring system,
I went to the official scoring sheet and saw that Mao beat Mirai in the catagory of "Skating Skills" in this competition....
"Uhhhh....I don't think so, Tim" Not tonight. Count me as one of those that believes the new system needs a tweek here and there to reflect reality. Mao's mistakes badly disrupted her program's artistry and "effect". Mirai's did not.

 

[Hikaru]

Thanks, Orange Cat. And on yet another note, I am thrilled that Zijun Li is making a good accounting of herself in her first senior season. Everyone's talking about Julia and the Russian teenyboppers, while Zijun is just sliding under the radar and racking up some nice programs. I think she has the potential to be the best Chinese ladies skater since the immortal Lu Chen.

Zijun is a skater to watch, still needs more finesse but I think that will come with more experience. I like that she is connected to the music, while Julia leaves me cold.

This ladies events was horrible. I can't believe Akiko didn't win, but what I cannot understand is that Mao's FS was considered better than Mirai's (I know she has UR issues, but actually she did preety good compared to her last event). The guys at Eurosport couldn't even believe what was going on.

 

[mary01]

Zijun is a skater to watch, still needs more finesse but I think that will come with more experience. I like that she is connected to the music, while Julia leaves me cold.

This ladies events was horrible. I can't believe Akiko didn't win, but what I cannot understand is that Mao's FS was considered better than Mirai's (I know she has UR issues, but actually she did preety good compared to her last event). The guys at Eurosport couldn't even believe what was going on.

sometimes the protocol is needed to get the full picture of the scores, especially when it comes to UR, that aren't visible to the naked eye, or the levels on the spins and steps!

 

[lavender]

Gosh, I don't know. Having seen the whole thing on the medium-sized screen (instead of the tiny one ) I am not quite so irate as I was yesterday. I liked Mao's performance a lot better than I expected to.

IMHO Mao's blade-to-ice skills are a cut above the field, as are her performance skills. She will have to land more than three triple jumps the next time out, but still there were things to admire in her program.

I hate to say but I also feel that way but I also love Akiko who imo has the best long this season. I wish Akiko would have won because there wouldn't be this outrage and maybe have Mao come in third. .

 

[cosmos]

This wasn't a matter of system. It was a matter of people (judges). This is a judging sport. Whatever system is adopted, judges can always cheat. This is one of thoses cases.

 

[mhu714]

Mao certainly didn't deserve to win this comp, but it's just another in a long series of poor judging. The Mens judging was a bit of a puzzler as well, though I agreed with the overall standings. Personally, the worst judging I've seen this yr was the pairs at Cup of Russia, and it's not even close.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I went to the official scoring sheet and saw that Mao beat Mirai in the catagory of "Skating Skills" in this competition....
"Uhhhh....I don't think so, Tim" Not tonight. Count me as one of those that believes the new system needs a tweek here and there to reflect reality. Mao's mistakes badly disrupted her program's artistry and "effect". Mirai's did not.[/QUOTE]


Hahahahaha! I LOVE the Home Improvement reference here! One of my favorite shows!

 

[avalyn]

^skatinginbc - I really know what you mean with the analyzing parts thing; and again, I think we have seen this problem before with other excellent skaters who had, overall, bad skates. In other cases, it was falling - and that really gets people riled up (me too), here it was doubling more than anything. But, it just still feels wrong that the whole is not only NOT greater than the sum of the parts, but completely lost in summing the parts if that makes any sense.

I so admire gkelly and a number of other posters who can both, break it down for us to see the summing and why the individual scores are what they are, identify problems, and ask questions in an effort to make the system better. I, unfortunatley, have neither the fortitude nor stamina to ask such questions - but i do wonder more simply: had Mao received a few lower components and come second or even third overall, how would most fans (on this board) have felt about the scoring? the system for scoring?

I wouldn't have been so unsatisfied with the result if Akiko had just narrowly won over Mao in second. I agree that Mao has great spins, footwork, choreography, and skating skills, so she shouldn't have been completely dinged there. But the popped and doubled jumps affected the quality of the performance. When people want to see her Swan Lake, they're probably going to watch the version at Japan Open or Cup of China (or hopefully a better future performance of it ) over this, which speaks to the effect the jump problems were on the performance quality, in my opinion. Akiko's program was performed closer to its full potential, so people are going to probably choose to watch this performance over the one at Skate Canada, which also speaks to its performance quality and the fact it was executed here very well, in my opinion. If a few of the components like Performance/Execution had been more in Akiko's favor in relation to Mao, so that Akiko edged out Mao for the win, I would have been satisfied with that. Although the British Eurosport guys were wondering if Mao had done enough to make it onto the podium, and I think there are arguments that could be made for Mirai Nagasu being ahead, I personally wouldn't have been upset with Mao being second.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I thought that quote really fit. Now that I have seen both skates a second time, I think I know why I think Mirai had the better free skate. To me, the 2Lo, the 2Lz, and the 2F of Mao's were distracting and since she opens up to keep from trying 3 revs, it isnt pretty jumping...obviously, from the scores she got (plus 2 from one judge on the 2Lo), they disagreed with me! How could that be....?
I will say that if you look past those jumps, Mao is still a very excellent skater and does have great skating skills.

I went to the official scoring sheet and saw that Mao beat Mirai in the catagory of "Skating Skills" in this competition....
"Uhhhh....I don't think so, Tim" Not tonight. Count me as one of those that believes the new system needs a tweek here and there to reflect reality. Mao's mistakes badly disrupted her program's artistry and "effect". Mirai's did not.

Hahahahaha! I LOVE the Home Improvement reference here! One of my favorite shows![/QUOTE]

 

[sapphiresky]

I don't know...I feel that if Mao ended up 2nd in the competition, there wouldn't have been as much of a debate. That could have happened given how close the scores were...then the comments would only be about how Akiko was low-balled in PCS (ie. the usual).

The whole screaming of "travesty" and injustice I feel is taken too far. I don't think that there is any point for judges to place Mao 1st or Akiko 1st deliberately...it doesn't make a difference in the overall picture. There have always been problems with the COP, and this is another example of it. Given the system, and if you analyze the points individually, I can see why points were given where they were given.

Now onto PCS- well this isn't the first time when audience members felt differently from judges. It happens in the men's competitions as well, I've always felt that some people's PCS were way too high even when they make mistakes. I feel that a lot of posts from commentators and blog members were taking it too far though, they had to criticize one skater in order to get their point across...which is taking it kinda personal.

I think also that a lot of it depends on whether one is at the rink side- how many commentators (Western/European) were actually in Japan? We, including myself, were watching on TV. I haven't been to many competitions, but I understand it a quite a different experience. Perhaps judges did feel that Mao's PCS deserved to be higher when you watch her in person...? Who knows.

I watched the video performances afterwards- maybe it was because of the comments and the reactions from people about the results, but Mao's performance wasn't that bad- it wasn't really what I could call a "disaster". Her timing was definitely off due to her jumps, but yes, this is when the individual elements worked better than the whole. There were some great parts in that program though. And such is COP.

Finally, there will be debate about any scoring system, I just hope that we can keep skaters out of it. I always feel bad for them when they are personally attacked for things like this.

 

[Olympia]

Speaking as a Mao fan, I would have felt more comfortable if she'd come in second, though of course I would have been disappointed in her results. She's still a wonderful skater, and I always have hope for her future, but this particular win makes me unhappy on quite a few levels.

 

[einna]

It's been ages since my last post as I have been buried in lurker-dom. After reading the first half of this thread, I got scared of watching Mao's program. I still went on and watched it and I found that I was still able to enjoy her performance.

From reading earlier posts, I am expecting that it was a complete and utter disaster, with her falling more than 3 times or worse, but I found that it was not so. It was a complete and utter disaster in terms of jumps but the rest of her elements were still very very nice.

I remembered years ago that when Mao makes jump mistakes, she lets go of the rest of the program but this time, I felt the rest of her elements are well executed. I saw that she got lvl 4 on her spins and footwork. If we compare her COC score from her score here, she lost points on jumps (not very big as you may expect as she had so may UR calls on COC) but she gained from leveling up of spins and footwork (she only got lvl 3 in COC). So if some really want to know where her scores came from, this can be a starting point. She still tried to interpret, execute and perform the program to the best of her abilities sans the jumps. I gather she was too nervous. She looks considerably so before her program started.

I like Akiko, I mean what's not to like? But from her interviews, she knows she needs to keep it together in the SP and I'm sure she'll work hard for it. You can't win a title with SP alone, but you can lose a title because of it.

I am also very happy for Mirai. Many are writing her off. Good to see her doing well.

 

[chloepoco]

This wasn't a matter of system. It was a matter of people (judges). This is a judging sport. Whatever system is adopted, judges can always cheat. This is one of thoses cases.

Unless you have irrefutable proof, it is totally out of line to accuse the judges of cheating.

 

[gmyers]

yeah the difference here is that Mao Asada never fell, just doubled some jumps, and she had a huge lead from the sp, and a skater winning due to a big lead in the sp, is pretty common, nothing new and happens all the time

if i was Akiko or her fans i would be really happy for her score in the fs, that's the highest i have seen her score in the fs!

It's also common for people to make huge huge leaps from sp to lp and win. Not just the reverse. Rippon 4cc 2010 and chan 2010sc

No one anywhere should be happy that Suzuki performed the way she did and lost, disgraceful that Mao got such an astonishingly good score for her fs. People are all ready to defend a worlds win by Mao with her NHk performance because of how nicely she did her doubles. Horrible

 

[cosmos]

Unless you have irrefutable proof, it is totally out of line to accuse the judges of cheating.

More than the Eurosports comment, "travesty of justice"?