2014-2015 GPF Mens Free Skate 12/13

[Ophelia]

Oh my god, I now see why the resentment! Did Yuzuru personally assaulted you? Because if he did, as his fans we apologize for his irrational behavior. Bad Yuzuru! Bad!

But joking aside, your comments towards Yuzuru is now at a point where it's plain bitterness. I know many people here are also not into Yuzuru's skating, but at least their criticism towards him is in a respectful and professional manner. Damn, you might as well just say you hate him as a person

Haters gonna hate.

 

[leolion11]

I love both Javi and Yuzuru, but those who say Javi should have won are completely forgetting his SP where he fell on his 4s, then did 2z+3t and just eked out 3a. The only man who skated a completely clean SP was Voronov. Machida stepped out of his quad combo, Hanyu fell on the 3t of his lutz combo, all three of Kovtun's jump passes were sloppy, and Mura fell on his 4t.

In the FS, Hanyu fell on his 3z, but Javi singled his lutz. Voronov again skated a near-clean FS. Mura's FS was an improvement over his SP, but he singled the loop and didn't complete his two-jump sequence. Kovtun doubled his first quad attempt and the rest of his program fizzled into mediocrity, and Machida completely unwound after falling on his first quad and singling his 3a.

Sure Hanyu fell in both programs, but in both cases it was at the end of the program, and what he did before the fall in each case was just superb. Javi was a mess in the SP but spectacular in the FS. Hanyu was truly a deserving winner, and in his interview, he noted that he was skating better but it was not perfect.

:agree: Though I was wondering, did anyone actually think Javier should have won? Even after all the mistakes he made in the SP and even the single lutz in the FS? I'm pretty sure most people with eyes would agree that Yuzuru was a deserving winner.

 

[Krunchii]

Well even if you take the entire value of that failed lutz away from the program score, the score is still above 190 (2.52 - 1.00 deduction = 1.52), if you want to dock a point off PE or something, it's still above 190, what can I say? He deserved a super high score based on that program, it was packed to the brim technically and he was selling it the entire time.

Either way score is not important when the placements are correct. He deserved that gold medal

 

[Sandpiper]

I don't think a single person said Javier should've won.

 

[foruiz]

My problem with his program is why oh why he has to pick Gerard Butler's version... by FAR the WORST Phantom ever, he sound like a truck driver at the pub.

 

[LRK]

I don't think a single person said Javier should've won.

No, I've seen no such comment either...

 

[Alba]

:agree: Though I was wondering, did anyone actually think Javier should have won? Even after all the mistakes he made in the SP and even the single lutz in the FS? I'm pretty sure most people with eyes would agree that Yuzuru was a deserving winner.

Actually I didn't like Javi's interpretation as well here. He looked to me too nervous to get those jumps, rather than "playing" Figaro. Especially the part when Figaro aria starts was flat. Rossini is very demanding when it comes to interpretation, because it takes a lot of energy and it has a big crescendo. Javi is perfect for this role/music, but he hasn't been able to produce a full beautiful performance, yet.
My suggestion would be to lighten the choreo, a bit, from all those transitions.
It's jam-packed with transition and it doesn't help him with the jumps and interpretation. I don't think he's receiving all 10s for it either. I don't remember the protocols right now.
Besides, I really don't think all those transitions are needed, and neither are beautiful for that matter.

 

[Meoima]

Actually I didn't like Javi's interpretation as well here. He looked to me too nervous to get those jumps, rather than "playing" Figaro. Especially the part when Figaro aria starts was flat.
Rossini is very demanding when it comes to interpretation, because it takes a lot of energy and it has a big crescendo. Javi is perfect for this role/music, but he hasn't been able yet to produce a full beautiful performance. My suggestion is to lighten the choreo, a bit, from all those transitions.
It's jam-packed with transition and it doesn't help him with the jumps and neither with the interpretation.
Besides I really don't think all those transitions are needed, or are beautiful for that matter.

Totally agree. I also have the same problem with Tatsuki's LP. The choreography is so jam-packed, it makes the skater busy but in some case it's too busy. Kind of overkill. Lighten it up a bit might be better IMO.

 

[Alba]

Totally agree. I also have the same problem with Tatsuki's LP. The choreography is so jam-packed, it makes the skater busy but in some case it's too busy. Kind of overkill. Lighten it up a bit might be better IMO.

You do need to give things a bit of space and let them breath a bit. The same here.
To make an analogy with music. Here is a great short video of Itzhak Perlamn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqCDDRAy8hQ
He says: "I once played Paganini no.5 very fast. I know I played every note, but you see the problem was I played too many notes."

 

[Meoima]

You do need to give things a bit of space and let them breath a bit. The same here.
To make an analogy with music. Here is a great short video of Itzhak Perlamn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqCDDRAy8hQ
He says: "I once played Paganini no.5 very fast. I know I played every note, but you see the problem was I played too many notes."

Exactly. People blame that CoP make competitive programs more ugly and no connection to the music. But we still see program that works with the music very well and get good score under CoP. I think there should be some balance. In case of Javi and Tatsuki's Lp this season, I can see some beautiful footwork, but in short it's overkill. Since the program is too busy and hard to keep up (well they want to get higher PCS I suppose) once they make a mistake it's extremely hard for them to make it up. It's not just about making your feet look busy. Simplify it so you have more time to breath might be the better solution.

 

[silverfoxes]

Exactly. People blame that CoP make competitive programs more ugly and no connection to the music. But we still see program that works with the music very well and get good score under CoP. I think there should be some balance. In case of Javi and Tatsuki's Lp this season, I can see some beautiful footwork, but in short it's overkill. Since the program is too busy and hard to keep up (well they want to get higher PCS I suppose) once they make a mistake it's extremely hard for them to make it up. It's not just about making your feet look busy. Simplify it so you have more time to breath might be the better solution.

Yes, I agree...but at the same time, the skaters who don't do a million transitions also get criticized for their "empty" programs, so where does the happy medium lie?

 

[Meoima]

Yes, I agree...but at the same time, the skaters who don't do a million transitions also get criticized for their "empty" programs, so where does the happy medium lie?

Well maybe they should simplify it by half? Or at least reduce the amount of transition to 70%?

 

[chairmanmao]

Javi had a cleanish performance so I wonder his why TR score is so low 8.46. He should be getting be getting 9.5 or a least 9.0 for his transitions. This program has the most complex steps I have ever seen in an LP.

 

[mikiandorocks]

Personally, I prefer to see a good clean quad or combo than a million transitions.

 

[DonneeDarko]

Personally, I prefer to see a good clean quad or combo than a million transitions.

I remember when there was a third component to figure skating competitions, compulsory figures. Skaters demonstrated their skill by inscribing figures in the ice. I believe that the transitions and step sequences are now the way skating skills are judged. And they can make for the most beautiful programs. To me, there's nothing more boring than to watch a skater go from one end of the rink to the other in preparation for a jump. I would call a sport like that Gymnastics Skating instead of Figure Skating.

 

[Alba]

I remember when there was a third component to figure skating competitions, compulsory figures. Skaters demonstrated their skill by inscribing figures in the ice. I believe that the transitions and step sequences are now the way skating skills are judged. And they can make for the most beautiful programs. To me, there's nothing more boring than to watch a skater go from one end of the rink to the other in preparation for a jump. I would call a sport like that Gymnastics Skating instead of Figure Skating.

I agree, but there need to be a balance.
To many transitions can hurt a choreo also, IMO, because they simply are not needed in every single moment.

 

[DonneeDarko]

I agree, but there need to be a balance.
To many transitions can hurt a choreo also, IMO, because they simply are not needed in every single moment.

This discussion reminds me of a scene in the movie Amadeus.

Emperor Joseph II: My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.

Mozart: Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?

 

[Sandpiper]

I like Machida's LP very much. But I would rather see him simplify it a little instead of bombing it again. Javi's a little... chaotic. I dunno if it's the choreography or the music.

I remember when there was a third component to figure skating competitions, compulsory figures. Skaters demonstrated their skill by inscribing figures in the ice. I believe that the transitions and step sequences are now the way skating skills are judged. And they can make for the most beautiful programs. To me, there's nothing more boring than to watch a skater go from one end of the rink to the other in preparation for a jump. I would call a sport like that Gymnastics Skating instead of Figure Skating.

But the skaters who were good at figures didn't necessarily make the best free skaters. And the reverse was true as well. If the transitions and step sequences are analogous to figures, then they are, imo, detriments to the program.

 

[Meoima]

I like Machida's LP very much. But I would rather see him simplify it a little instead of bombing it again. Javi's a little... chaotic. I dunno if it's the choreography or the music.

They both have some beautiful steps and moves integrated in their LPs. Tatsuki's steps are very wonderful except the fact that I see little connection to the music. He could have skated to Beethoven sym 6 or sym 3 with the same choreography IMO.

In short, I think too many difficult transitions cost them too much energy, thus they couldn't save it up for their jumps. A simplified version of their LP might be better choice.

And now I shudder to think about Yuzuru's 3 quads LP which he intends to come back in the latter half of this season. So scary.

 

[DonneeDarko]

I like Machida's LP very much. But I would rather see him simplify it a little instead of bombing it again. Javi's a little... chaotic. I dunno if it's the choreography or the music.


But the skaters who were good at figures didn't necessarily make the best free skaters. And the reverse was true as well. If the transitions and step sequences are analogous to figures, then they are, imo, detriments to the program.

I agree! There's a nice description of compulsory figures in Wikipedia, where it is suggested that compulsory figures have evolved into moves in the field.