2014 Olympics Free Dance

[Mrs. P]

I mean, Olenka1213 attended the Ice Dance event in person and reported to us what she saw. People are jumping down her throat for these observations that even NBC is corroborating. Not everyone in the world must be fans of your favorite skaters. It is okay. Some people or cultures have different preferences.

Nobody jumped down Olenka1213's throat (welcome to Golden Skate, BTW!) We jumped on YOU. Because you have spent EVERY THREAD that has anything about Meryl and Charlie talking about how terrible they are and how undeserved their OGM is.

And FWIW, there were other reports of other member sin the audience WHO did appreciate D/W's performance so YMMV.

 

[Matt K]

Yet you jump on anyone who thinks that D&W deserved the OGM win and have spent EVERY THREAD talking about how terrible they are and how undeserved their OGM is. Pot kettle black, anyone?

I do not jump on anyone who thinks D/W deserved OGM. I post what I think. If someone responds to one of my posts, then I respond back telling them what I think. Just like you responding to my posts.

I mean, there was a thread in The Edge created by someone asking who will be most disappointed: CL, BS, PB, or VM. I did not start that thread. I merely posted what I thought. People can disagree all they want. It is okay. If they want to respond back and challenge my claims, I will respond back. It is okay.

 

[Mrs. P]

I do not jump on anyone who thinks D/W deserved OGM. I post what I think. If someone responds to one of my posts, then I respond back telling them what I think. Just like you responding to my posts.

It's called overkill. One post about all of D/W's terrible qualities got your point across. As I said before, it was to the point of ad nauseum.

Anyway, it's no skin off my back. My ealrier D&W sucks post was a joke anyway. I have to admit I can see why people like being a D&W hater, it was kind of fun hurling (satirical) insults at them.

 

[amateur]

Re: "The Seasons," as a classically trained musician, I loved it and absolutely agree that it suited V/M perfectly. But can also see how many people might not relate to it. A Canadian columnist (can't remember his name) made the point that it might have been too subtle to have been perceived as a winning program, especially next to something as dramatic and familiar as "Scheherezade," which many casual music lovers and skating fans recognize and which has been used by other skaters, notably Michelle Kwan. The comment re: subtlety really resonated for me.

Today I was comparing "Seasons" w/ V/M's extraordinary 2010 Mahler program, which is one of the few ID performances I'd put on a par w/ Torville/Dean's incredible "Bolero." "Seasons" was breathtaking -- light and ethereal, almost other-worldly. OTOH, the Mahler (equally perfect for V/M) was also more overtly dramatic and thus drew the audience in more easily. And "Scheherezade" of course hooks you right away!

Bottom line: "Seasons" doesn't grab you by the collar but its quietude is uniquely rewarding. It was a beautiful vehicle for V/M.

I liked the program for V/M without absolutely *loving* it, but I was just reflecting on how I've really come to appreciate that piece of MUSIC. And their performance to it does have a part in that, and the subtlety of how that happened also reflects part of what I value in this team.

 

[Mrs. P]

I liked the program for V/M without absolutely *loving* it, but I was just reflecting on how I've really come to appreciate that piece of MUSIC. And their performance to it does have a part in that, and that is also reflects part of what I value in this team.

I have to say, I did warm up to the music. I really enjoyed their performance last night and I like they made it difficult for Meryl and Charlie.

 

[Matt K]

Anyways, in getting back to the topic of this Free Dance thread, I have to say I was quite emotional watching P&B's last competitive performance. While they don't have the speed or skating skills as I/K, they really told that story beautifully. Their skating was beautiful and classy. Thanks for all the dances, P&B.

 

[Matt K]

It's called overkill. One post about all of D/W's terrible qualities got your point across. As I said before, it was to the point of ad nauseum.

Anyway, it's no skin off my back. My ealrier D&W sucks post was a joke anyway. I have to admit I can see why people like being a D&W hater, it was kind of fun hurling (satirical) insults at them.

Why single out just me and not, say, that other guy (or girl) who makes digs at V/M in every single one of her posts? Or that guy or girl who makes digs at Plushenko? Oh yes, because they aren't making digs at D/W, so that's okay. Carry on. Pot calling the kettle black, indeed.

A certain poster(s) who called Tessa faking her injury last season, to all the fatty comments, her weight, how they look worn out and are undeserving of even a top 4 finish, FD is a crapfest, should not medal, home inflation, needs to slim down because Scott can't lift her, usual whining, slow, oh yeah and they are undeserving of a top 4 finish and should finish way behind of medals if they weren't helped. I mean, these comments are their opinions, fine, it is okay. But you don't call them out for it.

 

[CocoChanel]

I think V&M probably stayed in for several reasons.

They were the youngest Olympic gold medalists in dance history and so if they had left in 2010, it would have been a short career and they felt they had more to give. They probably felt they had a chance at winning at least another gold medal and should stay for another Olympics

My guess as to why V/M stayed on: their relatively young age when they got the gold. They probably felt that they had at least four more good years of practice/competition in them. The injury/surgery was something they couldn't have foreseen.

And, I don't think that the judges penalize anyone for staying in competition--at least, let's hope not. V/M were winning competitions during the first part of this last quad, but began losing mightily in the last 2 years. Injury/surgery probably had something to do with that. And while V/M were out of competition, D/W used the time to push the envelope on themselves and develop new/better skills.

I didn’t realize that V/M were the youngest gold medalists so I guess that could explain their reason to stay in. But I still think the judges had it in the back of their minds that they wanted the placements to start moving. And maybe partly because of Marina. I know she marched with V/M in 2010 and this time she marched with D/W but if she’s got two teams from different countries, maybe she shouldn’t have marched with either of them. Brian Orser trains two skaters from different countries; is there any word on who he marched with?

 

[amateur]

Anyways, in getting back to the topic of this Free Dance thread, I have to say I was quite emotional watching P&B's last competitive performance. While they don't have the speed or skating skills as I/K, they really told that story beautifully. Their skating was beautiful and classy. Thanks for all the dances, P&B.

Yes, keeping us on-topic, I agree it was a great one. And they really brought out their peak performance of it at just the right time.

 

[peg]

I'm Russian. I was at the event and apologies for the audience.
But you should to understand. 20000 roubles per ticket.. It's very expensive. There were few fans of figure skating. There were rich people who scream at hokkey and after came here to scream. About me, no one even knew the names of our scaters.

Interesting. This also explains why so much of the time, the audience is chanting "Russia! Russia!" instead of the skaters' names. They don't even know their names. Instead, it's the hockey mentality of our team vs. the rest, and we only cheer for our team. I feel sad for the skaters. So much work to get to the Olympics, and they get an audience like this who can't appreciate their incredible skill. :scowl:

 

[Matt K]

Yes, keeping us on-topic, I agree it was a great one. And they really brought out their peak performance of it at just the right time.

I love their softness.

 

[Olympia]

Hi, everyone -- this is my first post, although have been lurking for a while...anyway, the ID competition knocked my socks off. I was thrilled that everyone skated so very well and am over the moon for D/W!

Re: "The Seasons," as a classically trained musician, I loved it and absolutely agree that it suited V/M perfectly. But can also see how many people might not relate to it. A Canadian columnist (can't remember his name) made the point that it might have been too subtle to have been perceived as a winning program, especially next to something as dramatic and familiar as "Scheherezade," which many casual music lovers and skating fans recognize and which has been used by other skaters, notably Michelle Kwan. The comment re: subtlety really resonated for me.

Today I was comparing "Seasons" w/ V/M's extraordinary 2010 Mahler program, which is one of the few ID performances I'd put on a par w/ Torville/Dean's incredible "Bolero." "Seasons" was breathtaking -- light and ethereal, almost other-worldly. OTOH, the Mahler (equally perfect for V/M) was also more overtly dramatic and thus drew the audience in more easily. And "Scheherezade" of course hooks you right away!

Bottom line: "Seasons" doesn't grab you by the collar but its quietude is uniquely rewarding. It was a beautiful vehicle for V/M.

I so wish there could have been 2 OGMs! For me, both teams were a joy to watch. Both deserved it.

Welcome to GS! I agree that 2 OGMs would have been ideal.

I am not classically trained, but I listen to classical music most of the time, and I was delighted to hear the Glazunov when V/M debuted it. It's about my favorite section of the work, both the lyrical slow part and then that rapid second phase of the program. I can't remember: is it Autumn? Anyway, it's sublime, and Virtue and Moir do it complete justice. The way they float across the ice!

In some ways the choice of Scheherezade was harder for me to fall in line with because it has been done so often, whereas the Glazunov had the freshness of originality. (Scheherezade is one of my favorite works to begin with, but maybe that gives me higher expectations for it.) The cuts that Davis/White made (and I hear that Charlie White actually contributed to the editing of the piece) are so different that it gives us another view of the work, and that helps a lot. Interesting that they decided to end it on a high, intense point rather than in the serene way that Rimsky-Korsakov concluded the final movement. It gave the program an extra dynamism.

Okay, end of music geek talk. The main point is that I loved both programs in terms of their music, and I found the skating of both ravishing, though very different.

By coincidence, they're finally showing the medal ceremony right now. Love those silver Team USA podium jackets, and love Meryl's and Charlie's ear-to-ear smiles.

 

[peg]

I didn’t realize that V/M were the youngest gold medalists so I guess that could explain their reason to stay in.

Under the 6.0 system, ID was notorious for excruciatingly slow movement up the ranks. Basically, you moved up when the people ahead of you retired (or close to that). Many Olympic gold medalists were in their late 20s (some I think even in their 30s - but not 100% sure of that) before they reached the top. Often teams would have skated at more than one Olympic games to reach that rung. V/M were 20 and 22. Their first year at the senior level internationally was 2006/07 and they came 6th at Worlds. The following year they were on the podium. Three years later they won Olympic Gold. That was unheard of in the past. Had they retired then, it would have been the ID equivalent of only competing internationally for one season in singles. Even as it is, Tessa is only 24, and still younger than almost all ID gold medalists. But nowadays, people move up and down in rankings much more quickly.

 

[Mrs. P]

Why single out just me and not, say, that other guy (or girl) who makes digs at V/M in every single one of her posts? Or that guy or girl who makes digs at Plushenko? Oh yes, because they aren't making digs at D/W, so that's okay. Carry on. Pot calling the kettle black, indeed.

A certain poster(s) who called Tessa faking her injury last season, to all the fatty comments, her weight, how they look worn out and are undeserving of even a top 4 finish, FD is a crapfest, should not medal, home inflation, needs to slim down because Scott can't lift her, usual whining, slow, oh yeah and they are undeserving of a top 4 finish and should finish way behind of medals if they weren't helped. I mean, these comments are their opinions, fine, it is okay. But you don't call them out for it.

For the record, I also wasn't cool with the posts from that person either and did call her out for it. Eventually, I considered her a troll and didn't bother to respond. So that's the story. I'm equal opportunity. I don't like excessive digs at ANY SKATER. I think my reputation on GS speaks for itself. I don't need to defend myself to you, but whatever.

And please don't label me a D/W uber. I'm not. I actually like Ice Dancing in general. You obviously missed the numerous posts I've had praising V/M.

 

[Mrs. P]

Thank you, PJ Kwong:

http://olympics.cbc.ca/blogs/author...yl-davis-charlie-white-show-lack-respect.html

In my mind, I would have put Virtue and Moir first with Davis and White a close second in this event, but that is a personal preference.

What I struggle with are the attacks against Davis and White’s win and the lack of respect for the amount of work it has taken them to get to this point. They are the Olympic champions and have a long list of accomplishments including two world titles and the Olympic silver from 2010. I would hate to become Olympic champion and always wonder whether or not people thought it was legit.

For Virtue and Moir, like Torvill and Dean before them in Sarajevo, winning the Olympic title in the way they did in 2010 has become one of those “I knew where I was when…” moments. Their legacy will endure when others are long forgotten.

Winning the Olympic silver medal is no small feat. The Olympic moments that Virtue and Moir created for those of us watching ice dance in 2014 have already overridden the result.

In the final analysis, it isn’t the Olympic result but rather the skaters and what they bring to the sport that we remember.

Congratulations Tessa and Scott! I am thrilled to have watched you in Sochi; you did yourselves, your family and friends, and your country proud.

 

[Blondie12]

I didn’t realize that V/M were the youngest gold medalists so I guess that could explain their reason to stay in. But I still think the judges had it in the back of their minds that they wanted the placements to start moving. And maybe partly because of Marina. I know she marched with V/M in 2010 and this time she marched with D/W but if she’s got two teams from different countries, maybe she shouldn’t have marched with either of them. Brian Orser trains two skaters from different countries; is there any word on who he marched with?

I believe posters mentioned that Orser marched with Spain.

To be fair, if Marina marched last time with the Canadians, why would she march again with them? Why should not D/W get their coach to march this time? Take turns

In any event it is a moot point bc I don't think either team marched bc of the team event. marina coaches the Shibs and they marched so it is perfectly reasonable for her to march w them. Why march w the Canadian team 1) when her dancers were not even marching; and 2) where she had 2 American teams.

 

[SGrand]

Re professional shows:
When Virtue/Moir and Davis/White appear in the same show under the same circumstances, I find it hard to believe that they would not be paid basically the same amount.
[Maybe not exactly the same amount to the penny per Canadian Stars on Ice show, b/c V/M perform in all the shows of the entire tour, and D/W perform in only a few. But basically the same rate, I would think.]


Re sponsorships:
I think SB is speculating that the total amount of money available to D/W from U.S. sponsors is greater than the total amount available to V/M from Canadian sponsors. (I don't know whether I agree.)

I am just reading this now, so please forgive me if this has already been answered, but I would think that a lot of their fees depend on what their agents 'barter' for them. Are they with the same agency? I'm not sure exactly how it works for sports, and it would be wonderful if they were paid equal, but I am assuming that their individual agents at their respective agencies would work it out for them with the companies/tours and a lot of that depends on how much they are in demand and how much of a budget the show/tour has.

 

[CocoChanel]

I believe posters mentioned that Orser marched with Spain.

To be fair, if Marina marched last time with the Canadians, why would she march again with them? Why should not D/W get their coach to march this time? Take turns

In any event it is a moot point bc I don't think either team marched bc of the team event. marina coaches the Shibs and they marched so it is perfectly reasonable for her to march w them. Why march w the Canadian team 1) when her dancers were not even marching; and 2) where she had 2 American teams.

To me, it just seems sketchy. It's not about which dancers are marching and which aren't. It's the perception that Marina gives by granting preference to one team over another. Yes, she's in a tough spot but she's there by her own choice. If you're training two highly placed teams from different countries and you're wanting both of them to get all the advantages you can give them as a coach, you can't show any kind of preference. IMO she shouldn't have marched with either of them.

Of course, having said that, I think V/M were silly to think that she'd be giving them the focus when it was clear which way the judges were leaning. The minute they decided to stay in, they should have found a different coach.

 

[Blondie12]

To me, it just seems sketchy. It's not about which dancers are marching and which aren't. It's the perception that Marina gives by granting preference to one team over another. Yes, she's in a tough spot but she's there by her own choice. If you're training two highly placed teams from different countries and you're wanting both of them to get all the advantages you can give them as a coach, you can't show any kind of preference. IMO she shouldn't have marched with either of them.

Of course, having said that, I think V/M were silly to think that she'd be giving them the focus when it was clear which way the judges were leaning. The minute they decided to stay in, they should have found a different coach.

She should not have marched with v/m in Vancouver. But since she did that I could see her marching this time with USA, considering she marched last time with the Canadians and she had 2 American teams this time.

A coach should either pick no one or take turns. Here, it seems like she took turns, which is fine. If she picked V/M, that would be clear favoritism bc she marched last time w them.

It might have been special for her to march in the ceremony in her own country. She deserved that right and since she marched with both countries over 2 Olympics, she is not showing she favors one over the other.

The Shibs also count in this too, they were the team most on the bubble for the Olympics so they needed the coach most at their own nationals. V/m and d/w were locks virtually for the Olympic team and for their respective national championships. The Shibs are paying good money, they deserve their coach too.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I believe posters mentioned that Orser marched with Spain.

To be fair, if Marina marched last time with the Canadians, why would she march again with them? Why should not D/W get their coach to march this time? Take turns

In any event it is a moot point bc I don't think either team marched bc of the team event. marina coaches the Shibs and they marched so it is perfectly reasonable for her to march w them. Why march w the Canadian team 1) when her dancers were not even marching; and 2) where she had 2 American teams.

If I was Zoueva, I would have done the same thing: march with my number 3 team. That seems to me the fairest solution. Alas, the number 3 team happened to be American.

Voir are doing themselves no favors with this. One thing you can say about Marlie--they may be the quintessential reporter's nightmare because they never ever ever deviate from the script, but never deviating from the script also means you can pretty much predict the reactions you will get.