2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[Shack]

I still can't believe it,

The judges had 3 World champions from the last quad, All fresh off the Worlds podium, Fan favourites, Veterans, One is current GPF champion, One is current Olympic champion

All skating lights out(!) in the Free skate,

And they choose to reward the night to the Russian champion, No credentials, Who was neglected at the team event, Who was there to pick up the pieces after Lipnitskaya's fall in the SP, Who isn't famous for major PCS scores like the others,

She competed great, She was clean, She was Russian, The crowd responded only to her (And to Mao a little, But she wasn't a threat at that point) and that was enough to have her feed dust to all of the legends by approx. 6 points(!) ...


Because she had a couple of level 4's opposed to the others level 3s ?!?!?!?!?

That's a point, Maybe a point and a half....
I'd challenge any judge to go through the programs now and show me her levels.

Seriously with the way Kim and Carolina skated Adelina should not have had a chance. That's nothing against her. But figure skating is a sport when one or multiple of the most dynamic/talented skaters deliver an A grade competition, a huge ratio of the competition has no chance of gold because they simply don't have enough gas in the tank. That's how this should have gone. Adelina gets bronze which is great for her. Kim and Carolina easy 1 and 2

 

[aa456]

Mao's BV was almost 5 points higher than Adelina's and she got the 2nd highest TES score of the night (after Adelina). She beat Yulia in TES by 6.75 points. With that in mind, seeing how she was scored in PCS relative to Yulia and Adelina just makes me angry. 5th PCS of the night (behind all of Yuna, Adelina, Carolina and Yulia) is a joke IMO.

I have to agree (and I'm not even a big Mao fan). she was exceptional and i felt her 3-3 was rotated, at least more than the axel...I guess I just don't understand the tech calls tonight... and I'm not even going to get into the PCS scores of some skaters...

 

[whatif]

That's lovely, I love how all the skaters and proffesionals are showing they're invested in everyone

On the Russian feed, there were showing lots of backstage footage. Caro was the happiest there and the only competitor among the crowds swarming and hugging Adelina. Almost like she was on the Russian team

 

[HalfTriple]

I also wanted to point out how positive and unbiased was commentary on the Russian feeds. Tarasova was on one channel, Trankov was on the other, and Slutskaya on another. Particularly, TAT was literally sobbing during Mao's skate and could not stop complementing and thrilled for Carolina.

Poor Asada. Poor TRS. It must have broke her heart.

Poor Adelina. she is a lovely lovely girl, talented and the best lady in Russia. If you read my early posting, I kept insisted that she is the best lady in Russia, not Julia even when everybody went for Julia, but now she is in the mess, unjustly blamed for what she was innocent of.

 

[Globetrotter]

Well, I wouldn't say neither Yuna nor Caro made mistakes. They did, but on the whole, they still should have won over Adelina who also made mistakes and basically is an inferior skater.

Ok lots of differences in opinions. From the various posts, it appears the differences stem from that we all look at skating from different angles and put different emphasis on different aspects of the overall package. Will start on the TES since it is more striaghtforward.

Jumps wise, it is clear that the base value goes Asada>>Sot>Caro>Yuna. No way Yuna's 6 triple will match up against 7 triples if all goes clean. GOE on jumps reward different aspects, be it difficult / creative entry, height, ice coverage, flow out, speed etc. All the 4 ladies mentioned have strengths in different aspects. Yuna has good speed and distance, Caro better outflow and running edges, Sot has the biggest jumps and difficult entrances. Mao has difficult jumps but suffer from UR, wonky landings. Thus based on their actual execution in the FS, I do think that jump wise, Sot>Caro = Yuna. Of course Asada got more points simply from the sheer base value. Spin wise, it is obvious that Sot>>Asada>Caro=Yuna. Steps wise, Caro>>Asada>Sot>Yuna. TES wise, thus I am satisfied that Sot>Asada>Yuna>Caro. In fact, I dare venture that Yuna and Caro's TES are about equal since Yuna's better overall jump GOEs are enuf to make up for lacking the one 3Lo compared to Caro.

PCS - this is where it gets scarily controversial. I will break them down for better clarity
SS: Sot has the best attack and speed. Yuna and Caro have both somewhat slowed. Thus SS wise, I am ok that Sot>Yuna=Caro>Asada. In fact, I think Yuna's scores were slightly generous as she spent most of them time skating in one direction unlike her greater speed and variations in Vancouver.
TS: None of the ladies were that great in this. Caro got slightly lowballed cos her programme makes more use of upper body movements rather than the skating moves in between elements. If I have to put my money down, then its Yuna>Caro=Asada=Sot
CH: This one is subjective. I am hard pressed to say but I like Yuna>Caro=Asada>Sot
PF: Caro clearly win hands down on this. Asada was good but I felt it more as a pride and demo session rather than selling. Yuna connected well with audience while Sot made clever use of hometown advantage. I am not big fan of the home advantage thing though as this cannot be replicated outside Russia. Thus for me Caro>>Yuna>Asada>Sot (timing were off, raw)
IN: Subjective as well. But I really love how Yuna put up a more poignant performance compared to her SP which left me cold. Yuna>Caro=Asada (I love how she skated for pride)>Sot

Thus PCS wise, I will have Yuna and Caro ~74, Asada about 72 and Sot at best ~69.

Overall, the LP will work out to be roughly Asada 145, Yuna 144, Caro 143 and Sot 145. In this case, the technical content of Asada and Sot more than make up for the PCS. If you factor in the SP though, thats where the controversy hits. I think Sot was also overscored PCS, although I will agree with her TES. I will say that at most her SP PCS is in 32, which puts her at total ~71. I think in the SP wise, Caro and Yuna were about equal, while Asada clearly bombed.

Thus in my opinion, the overall medal placement should have been 1. Yuna; 2. Caro; 3. Sot. Asada is out but if she scores ~200++, she should be somewhat in 5th. This Sochi olympics to me is a clear case of PCSflation where Sot and Yulia were concerned and to a smaller extent Gracie Gold. Gold is good but she isn't that good yet. Her PCS should not even be more than Wagner.

 

[Nater]

I still can't believe it,

The judges had 3 World champions from the last quad, All fresh off the Worlds podium, Fan favourites, Veterans, One is current GPF champion, One is current Olympic champion

All skating lights out(!) in the Free skate,

And they choose to reward the night to the Russian champion, No credentials, was neglected at the team event, Who was there to pick up the pieces after Lipnitskaya's fall in the SP, Who isn't known for major PCS scores like the others,

She competed great, She was clean, She was Russian, The crowd responded only to her (And to Mao a little, But she wasn't a threat at that point) and that was enough to have her feed dust to all of the legends by approx. 6 points(!) ...


Because she had a couple of level 4's opposed to the others level 3s ?!?!?!?!?

That's a point, Maybe a point and a half....
I'd challenge any judge to go through the programs now and show me her levels.

That's like 2 points or more when you factor in GOE.

And the Triple Loop in her program is over 5 points. So she gained about 8 points on Yuna Kim from the Levels and GOEs on the Spins and the extra triple.

8 points is a lot of points. More than the margin of victory.

If Yuna Kim had done a triple loop in the second half for even close to BV she would have done enough to win.

I do not agree that Kim deserves some massive components advantage over Adelina, especially not with the programs she skated at this Olympics. Really, reputation scoring is kind of abominable, but I actually would expect fans to at least try to be a bit more objective. Yuna was basically a speed skater in those programs, and looked thoroughly disinterested in even being on the ice. It was almost insulting to see her skate around like that.

 

[jaylee]

Sotnikova's last combo yes, -GOE, but not as harsh as some people here think it should be. It was a triple double double with an overcooked last double. It wasn't UR or anything, just overrotated. The judges have to take into account the entire element (not just the last double in the combo) and apart from that last overcooked jump it was a fabulous element. Skaters still get +GOE bullets for elements and that can work against deductions to lessen the impact. It's why a skater may do a quad and have a scratchy landing, but still get BV (instead of -GOE) for it. Some of Mao's Two Footed double axels in the past have been scored similarly.

There was a step-out and Adelina stumbled onto two feet after the 2Lo, making it a very sloppy two-foot landing. It was not just an overrotated 2Lo with a scratchy landing.

Adelina also CLEARLY flutzed her lutz and the rotation of the 3T was borderline.

I think you are the one who has their fingers in the ears saying "ADELINA IS PERFECTION, LALALALA." She wasn't. The 2Lo mistake is proof of it.

Adelina's performances are a mixed bag of high technical merit and some bewildering choreography (why is she WAVING during her spiral?). If she had better choreography, and executed them to a high standard, then her win wouldn't have met with a mixed reaction.

It's such a shame that such a talented skater had such terrible packaging in an Olympic season.

 

[johnsmith72]

Completely disagree. Just rewatched the program and thought it was better than her world performance last year. She had tons of tango steps and flair.

 

[nola1122]

I am still sad and upset. Figure skating was my favourite sports to watch... Russia and judges, shame on you!!

 

[Nater]

Ok lots of differences in opinions. From the various posts, it appears the differences stem from that we all look at skating from different angles and put different emphasis on different aspects of the overall package. Will start on the TES since it is more striaghtforward.

Jumps wise, it is clear that the base value goes Asada>>Sot>Caro>Yuna. No way Yuna's 6 triple will match up against 7 triples if all goes clean. GOE on jumps reward different aspects, be it difficult / creative entry, height, ice coverage, flow out, speed etc. All the 4 ladies mentioned have strengths in different aspects. Yuna has good speed and distance, Caro better outflow and running edges, Sot has the biggest jumps and difficult entrances. Mao has difficult jumps but suffer from UR, wonky landings. Thus based on their actual execution in the FS, I do think that jump wise, Sot>Caro = Yuna. Of course Asada got more points simply from the sheer base value. Spin wise, it is obvious that Sot>>Asada>Caro=Yuna. Steps wise, Caro>>Asada>Sot>Yuna. TES wise, thus I am satisfied that Sot>Asada>Yuna>Caro. In fact, I dare venture that Yuna and Caro's TES are about equal since Yuna's better overall jump GOEs are enuf to make up for lacking the one 3Lo compared to Caro.

PCS - this is where it gets scarily controversial. I will break them down for better clarity
SS: Sot has the best attack and speed. Yuna and Caro have both somewhat slowed. Thus SS wise, I am ok that Sot>Yuna=Caro>Asada. In fact, I think Yuna's scores were slightly generous as she spent most of them time skating in one direction unlike her greater speed and variations in Vancouver.
TS: None of the ladies were that great in this. Caro got slightly lowballed cos her programme makes more use of upper body movements rather than the skating moves in between elements. If I have to put my money down, then its Yuna>Caro=Asada=Sot
CH: This one is subjective. I am hard pressed to say but I like Yuna>Caro=Asada>Sot
PF: Caro clearly win hands down on this. Asada was good but I felt it more as a pride and demo session rather than selling. Yuna connected well with audience while Sot made clever use of hometown advantage. I am not big fan of the home advantage thing though as this cannot be replicated outside Russia. Thus for me Caro>>Yuna>Asada>Sot (timing were off, raw)
IN: Subjective as well. But I really love how Yuna put up a more poignant performance compared to her SP which left me cold. Yuna>Caro=Asada (I love how she skated for pride)>Sot

Thus PCS wise, I will have Yuna and Caro ~74, Asada about 72 and Sot at best ~69.

Overall, the LP will work out to be roughly Asada 145, Yuna 144, Caro 143 and Sot 145. In this case, the technical content of Asada and Sot more than make up for the PCS. If you factor in the SP though, thats where the controversy hits. I think Sot was also overscored PCS, although I will agree with her TES. I will say that at most her SP PCS is in 32, which puts her at total ~71. I think in the SP wise, Caro and Yuna were about equal, while Asada clearly bombed.

Thus in my opinion, the overall medal placement should have been 1. Yuna; 2. Caro; 3. Sot. Asada is out but if she scores ~200++, she should be somewhat in 5th. This Sochi olympics to me is a clear case of PCSflation where Sot and Yulia were concerned and to a smaller extent Gracie Gold. Gold is good but she isn't that good yet. Her PCS should not even be more than Wagner.

This post has to be a joke...

And how did you arrive at those numbers for PCS in the FS. Please enlighten me...

 

[Mista Ekko]

That's like 2 points or more when you factor in GOE.

And the Triple Loop in her program is over 5 points. So she gained about 8 points on Yuna Kim from the Levels and GOEs on the Spins and the extra triple.

8 points is a lot of points. More than the margin of victory.

If Yuna Kim had done a triple loop in the second half for even close to BV she would have done enough to win.

I do not agree that Kim deserves some massive components advantage over Adelina, especially not with the programs she skated at this Olympics. Really, reputation scoring is kind of abominable, but I actually would expect fans to at least try to be a bit more objective. Yuna was basically a speed skater in those programs, and looked thoroughly disinterested in even being on the ice. It was almost insulting to see her skate around like that.

So your opinion is :

If this was anywhere else on the globe, She would still get 75 for PCS and crazy GOE ?

And by the way, The TES margin between them is 4 points, Not 8 mind you, Which would've been closer even should they downgraded her bad 2l as they should have

Sotnikova 14(!) points in PCS

Kim 12

Kostner 10

Asada 7

No ! Where ! Else ! In ! The ! World

Everybody knows it but they love Adelina\ Don't wanna be the bad guy

 

[Nater]

There was a step-out and Adelina stumbled onto two feet after the 2Lo, making it a very sloppy two-foot landing. It was not just an overrotated 2Lo with a scratchy landing.

Adelina also CLEARLY flutzed her lutz and the rotation of the 3T was borderline.

I think you are the one who has their fingers in the ears saying "ADELINA IS PERFECTION, LALALALA." She wasn't. The 2Lo mistake is proof of it.

Adelina's performances are a mixed bag of high technical merit and some bewildering choreography (why is she WAVING during her spiral?). If she had better choreography, and executed them to a high standard, then her win wouldn't have met with a mixed reaction.

It's such a shame that such a talented skater had such terrible packaging in an Olympic season.

Same could be said of Yuna Kim and her phoned-in programs. I don't even get how the choreography had anything to do with her music. Yuna is all arms. She had barely any transitions and she skated around the rink like a speed skater in predominantly one direction doing cross overs between her telegraphed jumps.

Quote me where I said, gave the impression, or inferred any skater was perfection. I can quote a hundred people from this forum saying that about Yuna. My post history is not vast, so it should not take much time to look through it.

I dare you.

 

[jaylee]

I do not agree that Kim deserves some massive components advantage over Adelina, especially not with the programs she skated at this Olympics. Really, reputation scoring is kind of abominable, but I actually would expect fans to at least try to be a bit more objective. Yuna was basically a speed skater in those programs, and looked thoroughly disinterested in even being on the ice. It was almost insulting to see her skate around like that.

Um, you obviously have no objectivity whatsoever. You've been biased against Yu-Na for months.

She wasn't disinterested, she was skating under IMMENSE pressure as the defending Olympic champion and she actually held it together. She had an injury that took its toll that she had to work VERY hard to recover from in time for the Olympics. Do you understand what pressure does to skaters? Most other skaters crumble as we've seen throughout Olympic figure skating history, and here, Yu-Na skated LAST and she kept it together. You have no right to be insulted at your imaginary incorrect assumption about her attitude.

 

[Nater]

So your opinion is :

If this was anywhere else on the globe, She would still get 75 for PCS and crazy GOE ?

And by the way, The TES margin between them is 4 points, Not 8 mind you, Which would've been closer even should they downgraded her bad 2l as they should have

I'm talking about BV. Yuna eats some of it away with GOEs.

In any part of the world, she still would have deserved to win with the performances she gave. It all would have come down to whether the judges were willing to hold up Yuna Kim to gift her the gold.

It's a lot easier to justify holding a skater up than to justify boosting a skater to win a competition they skated well enough to deserve winning.

Especially in a sport like Figure Skating where veterans are usually given unfair PCS advantage over new skaters to mast their inferiority on the technical end (which Kim was, in this case).

 

[Globetrotter]

How is that possible? Adelina could have flat out fallen on one jump and still have a higher BV in jumping than Yuna Kim. She had 1 WHOLE TRIPLE more than Yuna and even with a FALL on one it is more than 0 points. I think people just HATE the fact that Sotnikova won. Why? Do you own Yuna Kim stock?

Nater, don't get so worked up. Most people do not understand the technical scoring. They only see a beautiful performance and are immediately convinced that should beat another whom they think is ugly / not to their taste. That used to be the case in the 6.0 days where lovelier, soft skaters trumped the athletic ones. Think Kwan, Cohen vs Ito, Slutskaya despite the lovelier skaters lower technical contents. Issue here is casual watchers do not understand the scoring system well enough. In the Sochi case here, I agree with you that Sotnikova win hands down versus Yuna on the TES. Where the true controversy lies is the PCS where I still think Sot was overscored in both SP and FS.

 

[Nater]

Um, you obviously have no objectivity whatsoever. You've been biased against Yu-Na for months.

She wasn't disinterested, she was skating under IMMENSE pressure as the defending Olympic champion and she actually held it together. She had an injury that took its toll that she had to work VERY hard to recover from in time for the Olympics. Do you understand what pressure does to skaters? Most other skaters crumble as we've seen throughout Olympic figure skating history, and here, Yu-Na skated LAST and she kept it together. You have no right to be insulted at your imaginary incorrect assumption about her attitude.

She was skating like she didn't give a ****, and looked the part 90% of the time. It looked and seemed phoned in. It was a flat performance. It was NOTHING like what she did in Vanvouver, but rather a complete 180 from it.

She skated almost as if she was entitled as long as she landed the jumps.

Do you people know what performance/execution actually is? And you still have to PERFORM, even if the pressure is on. Adelina did that. Yuna didn't.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I'm talking about BV. Yuna eats some of it away with GOEs.

In any part of the world, she still would have deserved to win with the performances she gave. It all would have come down to whether the judges were willing to hold up Yuna Kim to gift her the gold.

It's a lot easier to justify holding a skater up than to justify boosting a skater to win a competition they skated well enough to deserve winning.

Especially in a sport like Figure Skating where veterans are usually given unfair PCS advantage over new skaters to mast their inferiority on the technical end (which Kim was, in this case).

In any part of the world Sotnikova wouldn't win this competition, Because her PCS (You know, Her skills and art) while nice, Are just not up to par with the greats


And you guys keep talking about BV, When even without the triple, They were only 4 points apart

 

[QuadLutz]

What I really can't stand is that it was an AMAZING competition, and still most of the talk will be about the controversy.

I really like Adelina and she was fantastic, I don't want the controversy to tarnish her reputation nor shake her nerves in the future, I don't want her to retire yet, because she can improve.

Mad RESPECT for Yu-na, she nailed it under pressure, she's so rock solid, I appreciate her more and more. I hope she won't be too disappointed/bitter, and that she'll do what she wants to do in the future

Mad RESPECT for Carolina Kostner, she went CLEAN for the first time in ages, she is so classy, she didn't even shove off haters

Mao was SPECIAL, such a fighter, and was positively lowballed at least in PCS. Maybe she'll remain with a "what if...", but frankly, she deserves respect.

Gold and Wagner were remarkably good.

Lipnitskaya, poor girl, four skates in a row were too much, media pressure was too much. I hope she'll be able to develop at her own pace.

And yet, there will be scandal and controversy and bitterness and I think I'll run to the anti-drama bunker

 

[Nater]

Nater, don't get so worked up. Most people do not understand the technical scoring. They only see a beautiful performance and are immediately convinced that should beat another whom they think is ugly / not to their taste. That used to be the case in the 6.0 days where lovelier, soft skaters trumped the athletic ones. Think Kwan, Cohen vs Ito, Slutskaya despite the lovelier skaters lower technical contents. Issue here is casual watchers do not understand the scoring system well enough. In the Sochi case here, I agree with you that Sotnikova win hands down versus Yuna on the TES. Where the true controversy lies is the PCS where I still think Sot was overscored in both SP and FS.

That's obvious. I'm done with the discussion.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I agree, Skating wise this competition was terrific