2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[capcomeback]

The sign of things to come was Julia and Adelina @ Euros and the Le'Equipe report of Russian and American collusion. The writing was on the wall before the Olympics even started, then got bigger with the Russian overscores in the team event (Le'Equipe said they were guaranteed to win). Then came pairs, where the overscoring meant V/T could have made significant errors and still won, giving S/S no fair chance (again confirmed the Le'Equipe report). Then in Ice Dance, D/W were so overscored relative to V/M, that D/W could have made mistakes and still won giving V/M no chance of winning (again this confirmed the Le'Equipe report). And finally in addition, the Russian girls and Gracie Gold were overscored significantly compared to all other ladies in the woman's event.

The suspicion of Russian and American collusion is very, very strong.

There were no American judges on panel for the ladies'free skate. How could Americans collude on the Europeans? Were there American judges (I honestly don't know and am asking)? D/W were perfect. They have beaten V&M consistently for the past two years and V has had twizzle problems (though she was fine in the Olympics). D/W are right up there with the best ever (certainly the equivalent in talent to Yuna), so I'm not sure where this is coming from as the American dance team was perfect. Their elements were equal to V/M, their program was more aesthetically pleasing and they picked better music. So what's the problem?

Edit: Why wasn't Polina Edmunds overscored if there was collusion? Most people are saying the opposite. In your theory, she should be doubly overscored because she is half Russian/ half American, lol.

 

[Ven]

There were no American judges on panel for the ladies'free skate.

And the short program, where Yuna and Adelina both scored the same? USFS also has lots of influence on ISU, who knows how they operated? Did they sign off on the tech panel? Did they lobby and persuade for higher scores for the Russians? And as a result, the Russians in turn lobbied for higher scores for Gracie? How do you explain Gracie having no international reputation, scoring 129 clean in the team and then 136 not close to clean individual with no American judges? Surely she Russian bloc had to have scored her well, considered how someone like Asada was held down?

How could Americans collude on the Europeans?

I said the writing was on the wall when they scored that high at Euros, which is usually inflated anyway. At Olympics, the Russians would need more international judging cooperation.

D/W were perfect. They have beaten V&M consistently for the past two years and V has had twizzle problems (though she was fine in the Olympics). D/W are right up there with the best ever (certainly the equivalent in talent to Yuna), so I'm not sure where this is coming from as the American dance team was perfect.

Nobody is arguing that D/W didn't deserve to win. But look at the scores! They could have made mistakes and still won against clean V/M. How can you close your eyes to that?

Also, nobody is arguing that V/T could have won. But again, look at the scores! The difference implies that their win was also guaranteed.

 

[yuki]

If you're gonna flutz, just make your element a flip and you won't get dinged for it. A lower base score? Yeah, but at least it's honest. If you can't do the element correctly, at least call it what it is. A "flutz" is only a flip that you tell everybody is a lutz.

Not exactly, since most skaters who flutz still approach the jump on an outside edge, but switch just before takeoff - I'm sure someone who's more technical than me can explain this better.
Anyway, that was not really my point and I didn't intend to start a discussion about this (the issue has been debated ad nauseam on this forum). I was referring to how quickly many people forgot everything they have been harshly criticizing about Mao because she had a great Olympic moment and she was a very long shot for the podium, so they could actually be sympathetic towards her when she was underscored. This probably wouldn't have been the case if she'd had a good SP and won overall - instead of dissecting Adelina's jumps, GOE and PCS people would be busy tearing Mao apart (she flutzes! she underrotates! she has no artistry! the JSF is corrupt! and so on, and so forth). Who knows, maybe I'm just being cynical.

 

[capcomeback]

And the short program, where Yuna and Adelina both scored the same? USFS also has lots of influence on ISU, who knows how they operated? Did they sign off on the tech panel? Did they lobby and persuade for higher scores for the Russians? And as a result, the Russians in turn lobbied for higher scores for Gracie? How do you explain Gracie having no international reputation, scoring 129 clean in the team and then 136 not close to clean individual with no American judges? Surely she Russian bloc had to have scored her well, considered how someone like Asada was held down?




I said the writing was on the wall when they scored that high at Euros, which is usually inflated anyway. At Olympics, the Russians would need more international judging cooperation.




Nobody is arguing that D/W didn't deserve to win. But look at the scores! They could have made mistakes and still won against clean V/M. How can you close your eyes to that?

Also, nobody is arguing that V/T could have won. But again, look at the scores! The difference implies that their win was also guaranteed.

D/W's performance at the Olympics will go down as one of the best ever (exceeding V/M in Vancouver, IMHO). It certainly rates with Torvil and Dean's amazing Bolero program in '84. If there was collusion, it certainly was not needed. All things being equal, the scores should have been closer, but after D/W skated there was no doubt they had won. The margin reflected that feeling of most unbiased observers (even if the scores themselves were a bit overstated).

 

[mirai4life]

Fancam alert!

Yuna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBS2vGzEeZY&feature=player_embedded

omg, the person recording this... lolololololol

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Oh, wow. That's terrible even by the (admittedly not very high) standards set by the audience throughout this whole event. What a bunch of idiots, pardon my French.

Robin Szolkowy said too he heard people laugh after he fell in the LP. What takes the cake for me though: a russian member of another fan group I'm in, who was there, said she heard people yell "fall!" at Yuna before/during the LP (edit: and at Mao during her SP too). This is disgusting, and it's impressive that Yuna managed to skate as great as she did given the situation.

A few months ago, there were threads here proclaiming Mao is single-handedly destroying figure skating with her triple flutz, or something to that effect. A flutz wasn't even a jump back then, but an offense against the Skating Gods that should be worth 0 points and public shaming in the town square. In that light, it was interesting seeing some people doing a 180 and being in her corner after the FS, like they could actually root for her now that she wasn't a real threat to the podium/their favourites.

Exactly that...

 

[Ven]

D/W's performance at the Olympics will go down as one of the best ever (exceeding V/M in Vancouver, IMHO). It certainly rates with Torvil and Dean's amazing Bolero program in '84. If there was collusion, it certainly was not needed. All things being equal, the scores should have been closer, but after D/W skated there was no doubt they had won. The margin reflected that feeling of most unbiased observers (even if the scores themselves were a bit overstated).

Nobody is arguing if they were deserving or not. The fact they might have deserved to win, does not mean there wasn't corruption. What if they had made a noticeable mistake in the Free Dance? They still would have won over a clean V/M, right? Perhaps the Russians were looking to make deals with other federations, that could have included riggage in favor of V/M? And the Americans decided to act first? Who knows?

The point is the corruption is so systemic in the sport, it's not credible, and the ISU doesn't seem to care.

 

[whatif]

omg, the person recording this... lolololololol

LMFAO at the dramatic sobbing. This must be one of the trolls posting here.

 

[sk8in]

The sign of things to come was Julia and Adelina @ Euros and the Le'Equipe report of Russian and American collusion. The writing was on the wall before the Olympics even started, then got bigger with the Russian overscores in the team event (Le'Equipe said they were guaranteed to win). Then came pairs, where the overscoring meant V/T could have made significant errors and still won, giving S/S no fair chance (again confirmed the Le'Equipe report). Then in Ice Dance, D/W were so overscored relative to V/M, that D/W could have made mistakes and still won giving V/M no chance of winning (again this confirmed the Le'Equipe report). And finally in addition, the Russian girls and Gracie Gold were overscored significantly compared to all other ladies in the woman's event.

The suspicion of Russian and American collusion is very, very strong.

It isn't very easy for the Americans to be major power brokers in this instance. Part of the issue with Russia, and the way their politics overlap with figure skating judging, is that they have many "satellite" territories under their power (note the inhumane fiasco in Ukraine). One of the comments about the judging was that they wish the US was broken up into 3 or 4 countries because then we'd have more judging power. Of course the bottom line is that national allegiance shouldn't play a role. Yuna and Asada are both basically Michael Jordans of figure skating who happen to be from smaller sovereign nations. They should be lauded as such without all this bs.

 

[sk8in]

A few months ago, there were threads here proclaiming Mao is single-handedly destroying figure skating with her triple flutz, or something to that effect. A flutz wasn't even a jump back then, but an offense against the Skating Gods that should be worth 0 points and public shaming in the town square. In that light, it was interesting seeing some people doing a 180 and being in her corner after the FS, like they could actually root for her now that she wasn't a real threat to the podium/their favourites.

People are backing Mao because Adelina won with a flutz, and didn't get called on it. While Mao received deductions for under rotation, Adelina got away scott free. And I think everyone respects the fact that Mao's 3A is historic to the sport. She has elegance to her skating, not just technical ability. I think if she had won, we would be celebrating the fact that the great Yuna Asada rivalry concluded with both skaters exchanging 1st and 2nd place.

 

[capcomeback]

Nobody is arguing if they were deserving or not. The fact they might have deserved to win, does not mean there wasn't corruption. What if they had made a noticeable mistake in the Free Dance? They still would have won over a clean V/M, right? Perhaps the Russians were looking to make deals with other federations, that could have included riggage in favor of V/M? And the Americans decided to act first? Who knows?

The point is the corruption is so systemic in the sport, it's not credible, and the ISU doesn't seem to care.

If they had made noticeable mistakes their score would be lower (maybe even exceptionally lower if on a lift or twizzle sequence if egregious). If singles and doubles are seen as subjective, Ice Dancing is even worse, as aside from fewer technical elements, a lot of what determines a program's value is artistry, interpretation, unison and choice of music. Davis and White hit a home run on all of the above. Virtue and Moir hit a ground rule double. Artistry and Unison (which is an improvement as Tessa has improved over the last couple of years) were outstanding for them this time, the other two were merely good. From what I understand, V/M knew this and wanted to change their program at the last minute. Davis and White were smart to hold on to Rimsky-Korsakov's stunning, Scheherazade for the Sochi games, knowing that it would be a hit in Mother Russia. It was smart, artistic and incredibly well executed.

 

[capcomeback]

People are backing Mao because Adelina won with a flutz, and didn't get called on it. While Mao received deductions for under rotation, Adelina got away scott free. And I think everyone respects the fact that Mao's 3A is historic to the sport. She has elegance to her skating, not just technical ability. I think if she had won, we would be celebrating the fact that the great Yuna Asada rivalry concluded with both skaters exchanging 1st and 2nd place.

It should have been close with a great SP from Mao. I loved her program from the Gala. It was beautiful, self-effacing and everything you would want in a Champ! She went out a winner in my book.

 

[SkateToronto]

Fancam alert!

Caro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXtfg3AcCA&feature=player_embedded

Adelina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGDkhi9lmSY&feature=youtu.be

Yuna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBS2vGzEeZY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArFeS8JbfdQ

that Yuna one with the screaming was probably recorded by one of the crazies that posts here.

The audience as a whole didn't sound as quiet and non-responsive as I'd thought, given the complaints.

 

[yuki]

Robin Szolkowy said too he heard people laugh after he fell in the LP.

No, no, he got it all wrong. They were just encouraging him in their own unique way, that just happened to sound a lot like mockery.

What takes the cake for me though: a russian member of another fan group I'm in, who was there, said she heard people yell "fall!" at Yuna before/during the LP. This is disgusting, and it's impressive that Yuna managed to skate as great as she did given the situation.

How lovely of them. I also clearly recall audience members cheering loudly when she had a slight wobble on the landing of her solo 3 Lutz. Yuna refusing to yield and calmly doing her thing among all that hostility was very satisfying to me as a viewer and a big slap in the face to all those classless people that were cheering against her.
Or maybe, in their own way, they were trying to help her - if she'd fallen, wouldn't it have been so much easier to justify how she wound up in 2nd place? :sarcasm:

 

[Spinerette]

People are backing Mao because Adelina won with a flutz, and didn't get called on it. While Mao received deductions for under rotation, Adelina got away scott free. And I think everyone respects the fact that Mao's 3A is historic to the sport. She has elegance to her skating, not just technical ability. I think if she had won, we would be celebrating the fact that the great Yuna Asada rivalry concluded with both skaters exchanging 1st and 2nd place.

I was never a huge Mao fan but I respect her for attempting the triple axel and landing it. I am not a huge Yuna fan either but the way she handles herself under all this pressure is so incredible. I always wanted Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen to win gold medals. And of course I wanted Patrick Chan to win gold.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

How lovely of them. I also clearly recall audience members cheering loudly when she had a slight wobble on the landing of her solo 3 Lutz. Yuna refusing to yield and calmly doing her thing among all that hostility was very satisfying to me as a viewer and a big slap in the face to all those classless people that were cheering against her.
Or maybe, in their own way, they were trying to help her - if she'd fallen, wouldn't it have been so much easier to justify how she wound up in 2nd place? :sarcasm:

What's sad too is that this russian woman said she felt so embaressed for it. It must have been harsh for all the true fans of the sport in there too. And at 2011 worlds I didn't get such an impression from the russien crowd... whatever went wrong with the organization here, it went really wrong. Glad worlds in Japan is next

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

What's sad too is that this russian woman said she felt so embaressed for it. It must have been harsh for all the true fans of the sport in there too. And at 2011 worlds I didn't get such an impression from the russien crowd... whatever went wrong with the organization here, it went really wrong. Glad worlds in Japan is next

So am I. While the Japanese skaters will get PCS favouritism (as with any home ice skaters), at least the crowd will be appreciative of all the skaters, be polite, as well as cheer for everyone even the ones who aren't Japanese.

Maybe non-Japanese gold medalists will even get standing ovations after they skate! :sarcasm:

 

[bekalc]

I find the idea the numbers that automatically put Mao on the "podium" and Adelina off are ridiculous. Asada's short program was an absolute mess... I think Adelina deserved at least 3rd.

 

[capcomeback]

I find the idea the numbers that automatically put Mao on the "podium" and Adelina off are ridiculous. Asada's short program was an absolute mess... I think Adelina deserved at least 3rd.

No argument. Based on the the way things shook out Adelina deserved being on the podium. Still, her SP was overvalued due to PCS and she should have lost at least several points of PCS on the long and several more for her overvalued (GOE) jumps, poor opening element ("triple flutz"/sorta triple toe) and a worse GOE on her step-out on her 3-2-2. Not a gold medal effort, but based upon what she did accomplish and what others didn't, she deserved the bronze.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Regardless of what the sport needs. if there is a conspiracy, it needs to be exposed. There are just too many things to question (Julia and Adelina's inflated scores - both PCS AND TES -i.e.Adelina's apparent flutz and definite UR on the same element. how can you say Adelina won fair and square when she would have almost lost almost her whole lead on that alone)? Judges were incredibly generous on GOE for Julia too. With the ridiculously stated number of 3s both Russian skaters received (Adelina 33 and Julia 27 next closest was Yuna at 13), the questions concerning the composition of the technical panel - the Russian Technical caller and the Russian Assistant Tech caller (ex-skating coach), the disgraced Ukrainian judge, the wife of the Russian Ice Federation President, Adelina's hug after with that same official... the list goes on an on... every day something new is found....

Russia was going to win a Gold in the Ladies'. if not Julia, then Adelina. This was pre-ordained, not by ability, but by conspiracy.

To be fair to Yulia, the majority of those +3s were on her final 2 spins, when spinning is widely regarded as the aspect of skating she is the best at (other than flexibility). Two spins which she has always gotten +3s on as long as she executes them to her high standard, from Finlandia Trophy, through two GPs, through the GP Final, through Europeans, through the team event, and to the individual event. None of those are remotely suspicious. Also aiding her, is her flexibility which impresses in the ChSq. So those four elements account for 21 of those 26 so-called suspicious +3s. Then you have a single +3 on her Level3 StSq which I don't believe can be called unfair when even the strictest 2 judges gave her +2s, and she has received +2 through the season. Then we come to the jumps. For the two less strict judges the one who gave her the single +3 on the triple flip gave her +2 on the 3 jumping passes that were well-executed. So really 1 judge only gave two +3 on her two jump combinations and then still gave lower GOE on the 3Flip and 2Axel which are weaker, and the other lenient judge gave her a +3 on her triple combination and the triple flip and lower GOE on the other two jump elements.

So to sum up, 21 of the 26 suspicious +3s are on spins and the ChSq which are areas she excels in. So put those aside. One is on the the Level 3 StSq which would have been dropped when the scores were averaged and makes no difference, even if it was a +2 like all the rest of the judges gave her the result is absolutely identical and +2s are in-line with what she has received in the last year when she skates it well. Of the 4 +3s she received for the jumps, 3 were dropped when averaging and would make no difference even if they were +2s. Only a single +3 was counted for her jump elements because two were given for the triple-triple combination. Changing that number even to a 1 would still result in identical GOE. People seem to be upset that she gets good GOE on the 3-3, when she always receives 1s and mostly 2s but that is not shown on the protocols because the tech panel has to make the edge call and when it's ruled against her the judges are required to add -1 to the +GOE. Clear evidence of this is in the TES box on the screen. At SC she would have cleared 71 TES, at GPF, her TES score was 2 points higher for the FS and at Europeans she would have been at 74.

In the SP, she received lower GOE because her jumps were weaker overall, and her final two spins wavered slightly because of her first fall in competition rattling her. Has anyone noticed the completely out of place -3 on her layback spin?