2015-16 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[StitchMonkey]

Nathan better be careful he doesn't zayak with that layout! All those jumps involving quad toes, triple toes, and double toes :hopelessness:.

A fall on one of those quads will still give him a chance to win, but popping could be a zayak disaster.

No crap.

i really wish he could go for a 4S+2L+2L at the start... that could give him a lot more wiggle room. As it stands if he pops the 4T+2T into a 3T he has to turn that the flip combo into a 1T or a 2L or something. If he doubles the 4T... well then he will have already used up all his 2Ts for the program and would have to do a 1T in that combo but could still *try* a 3T later, but he would have to not double it to not Zayak.

His solo 4T is after his 2 allowed 2Ts, which means a 2T is a zero and a 3T is another instance of turning the the flip combo into a 1T or a 2L.

Even i he hits the quads a 3F+2T still Zayaks the combo.

....I wonder whose idea this ways? Nathan's or Raf's.

 

[HanDomi]

And when you thought that Fernandez had the best idea for the zayak master layout in the past this beats everything

 

[musicfan80]

Anyone else wanting a interview of Timothy Goebel and what he thinks of the 4 quad programs? I would like to hear his take on the training of quad jumps and trying to train everything else in figure skating alongside them.

 

[ice coverage]

... I wonder whose idea this ways? Nathan's or Raf's.

@LynnRutherford

Nathan Chen planned FS content has 4 quads. Before #GPFBarcelona coach Rafael Arutunian told me, "He's 16, he may want too much. We'll see."
10:20 AM - 9 Dec 2015
https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/674654979853066241 (Dec 9)​

 

[StitchMonkey]

@LynnRutherford

Nathan Chen planned FS content has 4 quads. Before #GPFBarcelona coach Rafael Arutunian told me, "He's 16, he may want too much. We'll see."
10:20 AM - 9 Dec 2015
https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/674654979853066241 (Dec 9)​

Well that answers that...I guess that is the nice thing about being in the JGPF... He can experiment with little to loose. Maybe Raf just thinks "better here than Nationals"

I am not sure the coach should allow something he can't seem to endorse confidently... but ohh well.

 

[karne]

Well that answers that...I guess that is the nice thing about being in the JGPF... He can experiment with little to loose. Maybe Raf just thinks "better here than Nationals"

Really? JGPF is worth a swag of ranking points and money; I wouldn't exactly call it "little to lose". And an injury-prone skater jumping straight from two quads to four? That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Really? JGPF is worth a swag of ranking points and money; I wouldn't exactly call it "little to lose". And an injury-prone skater jumping straight from two quads to four? That's a recipe for disaster.

Ohh i don't disagree it could be a recipe for disaster... and if their coach is less than enthusiast all the less confidence i have.

Still I'd rather him do it here than Jr/Worlds/Nationals. I am not sure Nathan cares as much about swag (and didn't we find out recently the amount the juniors get is really small) and the points at this point, I think he cares about breaking into seniors... and he wants to try it this way. I guess in someway i would rather the coach grudgingly accent it than the skater just trying it and ignoring the coach. So if Nathan does not care, maybe he does feel he has little to lose. And how much can a coach really do if a skater insists on a layout like.... this?

For the record I think he should be wanting the JGP title and the junior world title... but that is just me.

 

[zebobes]

Also, Nathan is leaving out a 3Sal... but since he IS doing two 4Sals, he can easily change one to a 3Sal, which gives him more flexibility. I hope in the future, Nathan learns how to do either a 1/2loop 3Sal or 1/2loop 3Flip. Having 5 toe jumps doesn't seem very balanced.

 

[Plisskin]

He was my (and mostly everyone else's) favorite to win gold, but with this? Nah. I think he's gotten overconfident and his FS is going to be a hot mess. I wonder why Raf is indulging him in this.

 

[matmuh]

No crap.

i really wish he could go for a 4S+2L+2L at the start... that could give him a lot more wiggle room. As it stands if he pops the 4T+2T into a 3T he has to turn that the flip combo into a 1T or a 2L or something. If he doubles the 4T... well then he will have already used up all his 2Ts for the program and would have to do a 1T in that combo but could still *try* a 3T later, but he would have to not double it to not Zayak.

His solo 4T is after his 2 allowed 2Ts, which means a 2T is a zero and a 3T is another instance of turning the the flip combo into a 1T or a 2L.

Even i he hits the quads a 3F+2T still Zayaks the combo.

....I wonder whose idea this ways? Nathan's or Raf's.

if he pops 4T2T into 3T2T he would still be safe from zayaking since he would repeating 3T s instead of 4T s (unless he pops his 2nd 4T as well) but rest of it, i agree, its very risky but somehow i trust him counting jumps and not zayaking

 

[Mrs. P]

FWIW, Nathan is not one to pop jumps. Usually his errors involve either falling on fully rotated jumps or stepouts. I looked back at several competitions and couldn't find any popped jumps, including when he was recovering from injuries.

 

[shyne]

I don't think Nathan will have 4 Quads in his FS tomorrow.

 

[Jammers]

I don't think Nathan will have 4 Quads in his FS tomorrow.

He doesn't need 4 quads to win this thing.

 

[Sydney Rose]

Phil Hersh posted on Twitter today: "Compared to Hanyu-Fernandez-Uno, the top current US men are painfully overmatched and outclassed."

Thoughts?

 

[el henry]

Phil Hersh posted on Twitter today: "Compared to Hanyu-Fernandez-Uno, the top current US men are painfully overmatched and outclassed."

Thoughts?

Same old same old from Phil.

I would ask if it would kill him to say something nice about US men, but I think it actually might.:disapp:

 

[Mrs. P]

He is right... at the moment. The scores of the top three men at GPF are 20-70 points above the top U.S. men. It is what it is. I had made the same observation as Phil, as others did.

However, there is a lot of season left. And two years until the Olympics. We'll see if any of the U.S. men will rise to the challenge.

 

[Mathman]

Same old same old from Phil.

I would ask if it would kill him to say something nice about US men, but I think it actually might.:disapp:

Still…don't blame the messenger.

 

[ice coverage]

He is right... at the moment. The scores of the top three men at GPF are 20-70 points above the top U.S. men. It is what it is. I had made the same observation as Phil, as others did.

However, there is a lot of season left. And two years until the Olympics. We'll see if any of the U.S. men will rise to the challenge.

Agree.

Max defeated Shoma at Skate America, but it is undeniable that Shoma's FS today puts him ahead at this point.

---

I would add that some of Hersh's tweets today were quite touching -- general comments about his love of figure skating. Example (re the GPF Men's FS):

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil

The last couple hours reminded me how I came to love figure skating 35 years ago.
1:08 PM - 12 Dec 2015
https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/675784300932022273​

He also had good things to say about Ashley's FS. Example:

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/675754104338026496​

If a U.S. man had qualified for the GPF and had skated well, I think Phil would have given credit where credit is due.

(For posterity, the link for his tweet about the U.S. men: https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/675787480357076992 )

 

[musicfan80]

I do overall agree with Hersh that the U.S. men aren't up to what the top skaters in the world right now can do. But A LOT can happen between now and February 2018.

Heck, a huge part of me isn't even sure what will happen at U.S. Nationals next month (in ANY of the disciplines). I feel like the men are a wild card right now. I'm only confident about Max making the top three. But there are too many questions:

1) How healthy will Brown be? Will he attempt a quad in the short and/or long?
2) What's Adam going to do? Have a repeat of last year or fizzle out?
3) Can Nathan pull off short and long programs he is capable of?
4) Can Grant continue the momentum he has built over the fall?
5) Would Ross sneak up and repeat what happened in 2011 & 2013?
6) Is there anyone else I have left out? Probably.

 

[el henry]

Still…don't blame the messenger.

No,I don't blame Phil for the fact that no US man qualified for the GPF. And I don't blame Phil for the fact that so far, the US men cannot consistently put together the jumps and the performance of the YFC possibly T crowd (hey initials work for pairs).

But Phil has so consistently framed even good news in a negative fashion (and not in the "hey I'm a journalist just laying out the sad facts for all to see" mode, but the, "hey, I'm going to write a reply brief using all the words that just skirt the edge and support my opinion" mode), that right now he could tell me the sun rises in the East, and I'd dismiss it.

I think Phil wants us to think of him as hard hitting, but right now, I just think of him as cranky.

Did the top four men at GPF throw it down, and do the US men need to bring their A game? Yes, they did, and yes, they do.