2015-2016 Ladies Power Rankings | Page 12 | Golden Skate

2015-2016 Ladies Power Rankings

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Well, tbh, i disagree that Gracie pulls that choreo off. Her arms are very stiff and just make the whole thing extremely awkward.
Honestly, Gracie can do the technical part maybe, but she doesnt seem to feel the music or to perform it even a tiny little bit =( And this choreo just highlights how she cannot do the artistic part.

It seems so often here group think takes over and what is considered fact doesn't jive with what is seen. For years everyone talked about Yuna's "non-pointed toes" and going by that one could be forgiven in thinking the error must be glaring and yet every time I had watched a recorded performance of hers I could never see anything of that kind of error in aesthetic that jumped out at me. I had thought to myself, maybe I'm not looking hard enough, maybe I'm not looking in the right place but then it occurred to me, it's not me, it's this narrative that gets reinforced to a degree that it becomes a de facto truth when in reality it is a minor nitpick that gets blown up to unwarranted significance. Same now with this narrative about Gracie "not feeling the music'. If one were to envision a performance of hers solely based on the descriptions found here one would expect to see something a lot worse than what the reality in fact is. She's no Yuna but few are and many are not much better (if at all) than Gracie and Gracie is merely adequate but her musicality or lack of it, like other skates doesn't significantly distract from her performance like say Miyahara's jumps distract from hers. Besides that, her performance at Nationals was elite level and doesn't deserve this kind of criticism.
 

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
With all the talk about double 2A-3T in the bonus, backloading with tanos, euler combos, etc... The base values for the top women are very close.

SP: Medvedeva - 33.10, Miyahara - 33.06, Radionova - 32.86/33.06 (ritt/flip), Wagner - 31.94, Gold - 33.06.

LP: Miyahara - 62.96, Radionova - 62.50, Gold - 62.49, Wagner - 62.44, Medvedeva - 62.33.


Total TES:

1. Miyahara - 96.06
2. Radionova (flip) - 95.56
3 .Gold - 95.55
4. Medvedeva - 95.43
Radionova (ritt) - 95.36
5. Wagner - 94.38

Mao is a special case. Theory: 38.8 + 67.96 = 106.06. But these skates will not happen.

So as you can see Miyahara has the HIGHEST BV. The 2A-3T strat is legit.

Edit: how could I've forgotten that Yuna abused this as well.

Wagner and Gold's won't happen either, frankly.
 

Tyranid

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Wagner and Gold's won't happen either, frankly.

Well, Gold was able to, at least, skate out her planned BV (although that dont matter because she has a lot of non BV-affectecting falls :)). Wagner was also able to do that (though not in both programs at the same event, I think).

Asada was never able to skate out her BV, the plank is set too high.

Either way, all of this BV talk is about how a skater could set up future programs for max. points rather than a benchmark of how well they will do in compitition. (I know this is obvious to most, but there it is.)
 
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Batsuchan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Radionova cannot skate to Gracie's firebird.
it is a very sophisticated program in terms of choreography. I could not imagine Radio skate to it (not every program is emoting and joy, I dont think Radio is a good match for this choreography and can pull it off as Gracie does so far). And lay-egg-move has to be there. Hold_silence move has to be there, quirky head move and finger flip has to be there, cos it is from the original ballet!!!
Even as graceful as my fav Ballerina, cannot pull off those moves without intrigue some laugh from certain audience.

??? I'm really confused by this "egg laying" part. :confused:

I just watched Mariinsky ballet dancers do an excerpt from Fokine's "Firebird" last night (and I have seen them do the full ballet too), and there is no egg laying scene in that version! The Firebird gives Prince Ivan *A MAGIC FEATHER*, not an egg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firebird#Plot_summary

There is an egg in the plot, but it belongs to the villain...

**
As for Radionova skating to "Firebird," well, maybe the franticness of her arms would actually be somewhat appropriate...? The Firebird does try to frantically escape from Prince Ivan. :biggrin:
https://youtu.be/EC6MmmLKEmA?t=1m29s

However, I HIGHLY DOUBT that Elena will ever skate to "Firebird"--she has said in interviews that she doesn't want to skate to music that a lot of other skaters have used before.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...na-Radionova&p=1365337&viewfull=1#post1365337
So no "Carmen," "Bolero" or POTO for her! :biggrin: :agree:
 

Daniel1998

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2015
??? I'm really confused by this "egg laying" part. :confused:

I just watched Mariinsky ballet dancers do an excerpt from Fokine's "Firebird" last night (and I have seen them do the full ballet too), and there is no egg laying scene in that version! The Firebird gives Prince Ivan *A MAGIC FEATHER*, not an egg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firebird#Plot_summary

There is an egg in the plot, but it belongs to the villain...

**
As for Radionova skating to "Firebird," well, maybe the franticness of her arms would actually be somewhat appropriate...? The Firebird does try to frantically escape from Prince Ivan. :biggrin:
https://youtu.be/EC6MmmLKEmA?t=1m29s

However, I HIGHLY DOUBT that Elena will ever skate to "Firebird"--she has said in interviews that she doesn't want to skate to music that a lot of other skaters have used before.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...na-Radionova&p=1365337&viewfull=1#post1365337
So no "Carmen," "Bolero" or POTO for her! :biggrin: :agree:

This is where Gracie lays an egg.
https://youtu.be/f44iy1dU2-M?t=1m49s
 

Batsuchan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
This is where Gracie lays an egg.
https://youtu.be/f44iy1dU2-M?t=1m49s

Yes, I know that in Gracie's program, the Firebird lays an egg...My point was that the original ballet DOES NOT have an egg-laying scene, so if you want to follow the ballet's story, it is not necessary (unlike what yyyskate suggested). Of course, it's perfectly reasonable to take the "Firebird" score and tell whatever story you want with the music...
 

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Im happy Im too stupid to get this genious sophisticated programm:laugh: If its rude to laugh at that OK let it be my flaw rather than chroeographers' & Gracie's ! :slink:

What I would actually like to see is Radionova skating Gracie's Firebird program. She'd sell that thing and make it fly!

Anna's Sp is one of my favorite SP's of the season. The step sequence at the end (when she's not falling all over the place) is right up there with Kanako's. :love:
brrr plz plz no such choreo for Lena!:eeking: I would gladly take her skating to this music! Then it would really be FIRE bird!
& Anna's programm is indeed very good. I really love all the accents perfectly put.

:agree: I'll do that next time! (in my next life perhaps :biggrin:)

I want to see Gracie or Ashley pulling off Sotskova's SP. I think both of them can perform it really brilliantly
Its totally an Ash programm! She would have given it the maturity that Maria wasnt fully able to give it!
 
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Rissa

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Yes, I know that in Gracie's program, the Firebird lays an egg...My point was that the original ballet DOES NOT have an egg-laying scene, so if you want to follow the ballet's story, it is not necessary (unlike what yyyskate suggested). Of course, it's perfectly reasonable to take the "Firebird" score and tell whatever story you want with the music...

Uhhh, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the move was just nicknamed "egg-laying" by fans because of its awkwardess and the bird theme and the original intention of the choreography had nothing to do with laying eggs.
 

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
well then I won't laugh but only scratch my head if it was actually intentional! :scratch2:
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
The egg laying thing in Gracie's program is what I don't get. Before this knowledge *if that is really an intended choreography move* it looked just awkward, now - just simply unflattering. Not the best move for sure:noshake:
 

Lexiglass

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Im happy Im too stupid to get this genious sophisticated programm:laugh: If its rude to laugh at that OK let it be my flaw rather than chroeographers' & Gracie's ! :slink:

My apologies if I ever made it seem that I think you or anyone else is "stupid". I don't think Gracie's Firebird is genius, but I do think it's a sophisticated program that is well choreographed, specifically to maximize PCS scores.

Separately, reading some of the comments on here you would think that Gracie spends the full four minutes squatting all over the ice "laying eggs". She does one plié in the middle of her step sequence! I'm constantly amazed by how distressing this split second moment is to figure skating fans. I actually think it looks kind of cool :slink:
 

jersey1302

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Country
Canada
I'm not a fan of the firebird program. The music does absolutely nothing for me aside the last 25 seconds maybe. Nothing about the program it self pulls me in either. For me this program is a huge fail but that's just in my opinion.
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
I'm not a fan of the firebird program. The music does absolutely nothing for me aside the last 25 seconds maybe. Nothing about the program it self pulls me in either. For me this program is a huge fail but that's just in my opinion.

I recall Dave's critique on her program choice at the beginning of the season:) It is a war piece, yes. But it IS classic. I think it all depends on the music cuts..Gracie's don't work much for me - they are too..unexpected and unflowing? I liked Pogo's music cut more, and I believe Gracie would be better with different cuts too.
 

desertskates

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
I like Gracie's firebird, but it doesn't knock me over with it's brilliance. I think her short has much better choreography. Maybe firebird doesn't bowl me over because it's not as en fuego as Joannie Rochette's version at the 2005 Canadian Nationals. One of my all time favorite ladies' long programs :love:
Have a look if you like :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17uTwCAUtrw
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I like Gracie's firebird, but it doesn't knock me over with it's brilliance. I think her short has much better choreography. Maybe firebird doesn't bowl me over because it's not as en fuego as Joannie Rochette's version at the 2005 Canadian Nationals. One of my all time favorite ladies' long programs :love:
Have a look if you like :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17uTwCAUtrw

How funny....I just posted this program in another thread. I loved her Split Falling Leaf in that program. Second only to Michelle Kwan's 2002 Leaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJFq60chiq4
 

randomfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
I recall Dave's critique on her program choice at the beginning of the season:) It is a war piece, yes. But it IS classic. I think it all depends on the music cuts..Gracie's don't work much for me - they are too..unexpected and unflowing? I liked Pogo's music cut more, and I believe Gracie would be better with different cuts too.

I think the opposite. Pogorilaya's Firebird was much more unexpected and unflowing (ex: right when the step sequence ends) than Gracie's. Gracie's Firebird music cut at least has some flow in it when transitioning to the next cuts.

Anyways, I find Gracie's Firebird to be disappointing, because it really had the potential to be a great program, but the choreography is just so confusing and awkward and that prevents me from enjoying the program, even when she's clean like the one from Nationals.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I don't know what else to say on the subject of Gracie's Firebird program other than this. As a former professional dancer I can promise that there are lot of things in Gracie's Choreography that come straight from the ballet. Including the "Squat" which I still can't believe is what some people call it. Can you seriously imagine Lori saying..."Ok Gracie.....Squat!!" Just the thought of it makes me laugh. :laugh2: Why don't some of you have a look at the pieces from the ballet and you'll get a better picture of what Gracie, Frank, and Lori are going for.

Have a look at this clip from the actual Ballet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6MmmLKEmA

Some of you may find the choreography a bit odd. However, Ballet isn't for everyone and trust me when I say. I'd rather perform Firebird a thousand times before I ever do another "Modern Dance" ........I remember a dance where we started as a Tree, then some of the dancers "fell off" as leaves and died. They had to lay there for 3 minutes while some of us ( Me ) turned into birds and flew away and the final group fell to the ground and become the "Roots" before 1 dancer came out dressed in a green leafy costume and began the new life of the tree.

You never saw an audience more confused. :scratch2: We got "Courtesy Claps" every night for that dance. It was embarrassing.
 
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MalAssada

Medalist
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
The egg laying really doesn't bother me... It is 2 seconds in a 4 minute program, but each to their own. I actually think this is the first program by Gracie that I enjoyed.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Uhhh, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the move was just nicknamed "egg-laying" by fans because of its awkwardess and the bird theme and the original intention of the choreography had nothing to do with laying eggs.


This would be a correct thought. It has zero to do with laying an egg!!! Plus, it's really hard. You guys should try it sometime especially with the speed that Gracie does it on the picks of her skates. Like a lot moves in Ballet, Gracie makes it look easy because she's talented but trust me. It's not.
 

Layback11

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
I don't know what else to say on the subject of Gracie's Firebird program other than this. As a former professional dancer I can promise that there are lot of things in Gracie's Choreography that come straight from the ballet. Including the "Squat" which I still can't believe is what some people call it. Can you seriously imagine Lori saying..."Ok Gracie.....Squat!!" Just the thought of it makes me laugh. :laugh2: Why don't some of you have a look at the pieces from the ballet and you'll get a better picture of what Gracie, Frank, and Lori are going for.

Have a look at this clip from the actual Ballet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6MmmLKEmA

Some of you may find the choreography a bit odd. However, Ballet isn't for everyone and trust me when I say. I'd rather perform Firebird a thousand times before I ever do another "Modern Dance" ........I remember a dance where we started as a Tree, then some of the dancers "fell off" as leaves and died. They had to lay there for 3 minutes while some of us ( Me ) turned into birds and flew away and the final group fell to the ground and become the "Roots" before 1 dancer came out dressed in a green leafy costume and began the new life of the tree.

You never saw an audience more confused. :scratch2: We got "Courtesy Claps" every night for that dance. It was embarrassing.

That seriously made me laugh. I might have to go to a modern dance performance sometime-it sounds like comedy gold :laugh2:
 
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