2015 US Nationals Senior Men FS Jan 25

[Li'Kitsu]

For me I would give Josh long program over Jason. Jason wasn't perfect either and Josh did the quad. Plus two perfect 3 axels.

I understand that, I guess it's just a point of what you value more. I think Jaosn deserves it because he only had one mistake, and that wasn't disruptive or anything. He looked secure all the way, while Josh had some insecurities. Jason was a little more into his performances too - I'd value all of that slightly higher than the 4T. If we're going by enjoyment, I think I liked Joshs LP more though.

It's pretty obvious though the judges would have given Josh the titel had he been as clean as Jason. I probably shouldn't be suprised by that, but I am a little, TBH (not that I disagree though).

 

[Interspectator]

I understand that, I guess it's just a point of what you value more. I think Jaosn deserves it because he only had one mistake, and that wasn't disruptive or anything. He looked secure all the way, while Josh had some insecurities. Jason was a little more into his performances too - I'd value all of that slightly higher than the 4T. If we're going by enjoyment, I think I liked Joshs LP more though.

It's pretty obvious though the judges would have given Josh the titel had he been as clean as Jason. I probably shouldn't be suprised by that, but I am a little, TBH (not that I disagree though).

Some of Josh's landings were not very secure. Jason, on the other hand looked very in-control. That was the difference for me.
Does anyone know about Joshua's ankle injury? Is it completely healed?

 

[Meoima]

Jeremy definitely has the best skating skills for sure, and he's definitely not any slower than the others. Max is probably the fastest. Josh has good skating skills, as does Ross ( that poor boy is never given any credit.). Jason probably could use some more power in his skating, but he isn't super slow either.
That said having seen Jeremy do fantastic (and not so much...) programs live, there is a noticeable difference when he doesn't do well. He tightens up a bit, I think. The blade work is there and choreo is still great, but I don't know there's just something missing - can't put my finger on it...

Thank you. I wonder if this year Jason has improved his speed? At the beginning of the season someone said so.
Maybe now he's still slower than Josh a bit.
But Josh's speed was unstable in the LP. So I'd give credit to Jason in LP.

 

[Mrs. P]

Some of Josh's landings were not very secure. Jason, on the other hand looked very in-control. That was the difference for me.
Does anyone know about Joshua's ankle injury? Is it completely healed?

Sounds like he is injury free, which is good.

Even Josh said in the news conference that he felt nervous and had to fight a bit though that skate. The 3As were great and were rewarded accordingly, but he had minus -GOE on three elements, Jason one. Plus a level 3 spin.

All that said the math indicates Josh would have placed second in the FS had he not zayaked.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Some of Josh's landings were not very secure. Jason, on the other hand looked very in-control. That was the difference for me.

Yep, That's what I meant too

Even Josh said in the news conference that he felt nervous and had to fight a bit though that skate. The 3As were great and were rewarded accordingly, but he had minus -GOE on three elements, Jason one. Plus a level 3 spin.

Afraid he'd skate like crap were his words, I think
It's a good sign he was able to fight for everything the way he did though. You can't always have a great day, and he lacks some of the experience the other guys have (Adam made it to worlds before and Jason was at the Olys) and still had to skate last.

 

[mskater93]

A couple things. To the poster that said Jason is giving up 0.5 in his final spin for no camel in the front half, not true at all. He gets 2 difficult positions on the front half and then uses all three positions and the twisted intermediate position on the. back half and achieves a 3pl4. He maxes out his levels on non jumping elements. That is part of where he makes up his points.

While Jeremy's program was beautifully skated and better than he was at skam in how He skated the program, the music comes across as very one note in an arena which may have affected his pcs along with the falls. Jmo...

 

[Sandpiper]

All I meant was...

Jeremy looked a bit slow on the night. Not that he's slow in general. I mean, I didn't call him slow in the SP, despite my less-than-positive feelings about the program. And of course, just 'cause he wasn't insanely fast doesn't mean he displayed terrible SS (there were quite a few moments where he displayed nice finesse with the blade). But it could be one reason why the judges didn't go with him on PCS, along with the falls, especially considering how well everyone else skated.

Jason, on the other hand, looked faster in both programs than I expected. There were moments early season where he looked a little slow (by elite standards), but like Meoima, I thought his speed improved here.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jeremy was crawling into that opening quad.

all three positions on the back half

Ah, they changed the rule this season.

 

[YagsFan]

Great thoughts, Deetrakt, and well stated! I can't believe all the negativity towards a young man who has been so wildly popular over the last couple of years. I call fickle! I see no problem appreciating multiple skater's performances, but you don't have to tear one down to do so. Jason is terrific, and is better this year than last, regardless of fans' opinions about his programs themselves. He will be a fine representative for the US at Worlds, and really, none of the other men competing would have any better chance at beating the world's best. I hope that all 3 of our men shine, giving performances at or above the level we've just seen at Nationals!
Who knows what might happen in that case!

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jason is terrific, and is better this year than last, regardless of fans' opinions about his programs themselves.

You can't just state something without reasoning. How is he better this year than last? If you look and compare the SP's from year to year, I find it quite easy to ascertain that his program last year was better on ALL of the PCS criteria, had a better flying camel, a better combination spin, and a better footwork sequence (especially looking at how he executed it this year at Nationals, as there was a clear mistake).

 

[WeakAnkles]

This was buried in one of my earlier posts, but I meant it as a serious question: imagine Rohene skating to Juke. Would *that* program be less criticized? (And I don't mean strictly because Rohene is African American, but because he is older, projects more sexuality than Jason, etc.)

ETA: written before I saw Skater Boy's post. Still asking>

The problem with Juke isn't racial or sexual. The problem is the music doesn't go anywhere. It's a good groove, but it exists all on one level. YMMV of course. Jason performs his little fanny off, but still the music tends to grind at one's attention span.

 

[dorispulaski]

He has more height in his jumps, and his 3A is somewhat more reliable.

 

[Skater Boy]

It is a few days after nationals and I am happy for Jason, Adam and Josh - all three worthy podium finishers. EIther deserved the title though I was pretty confident Brown would win -he seems to be the it guy. Sad about Max though he got a pewter medal like his sister. It is hard when you get the taste of going to world's or a national title and now you have to wait on the sidelines. Ditto for Jeremy because he is human and he knows some of the stuff said about him on these posts. I truly believe he can win a world medal but like Sandu may never do it. One would sort of think the way oly cycles work that he might skate one more year and if he doesn't make it to world's he might retire and move on. I still don't understand how so many skaters can compete with the high costs and thinkikng of their future in respect to living costs. I just hope they can find some solice in that they are still top national level skaters and world for that matter.

 

[jenaj]

After a few days of thinking about it, I still am kind of disappointed in the men's event and US men's skating in general. Remember when Plushy said that men's skating without a quad was ladies skating? Well, I kind of agree. Or I agree at least to the extent that I think, for the men, artistry/performance has to be counterbalanced with a high level of technical skill. And in most cases, that means a quad that gets rotated without a fall. If I were picking the Worlds team, I would have put Max on the team. He is the only US men's skater who can really do the quad on a consistent basis. Yes, his artistry is lacking but still, he among the relatively small number of skaters who can actually do the jump. He also had a Grand Prix medal, unlike Adam and Josh. Who would I have left off the team? Josh, probably. Adam at least tried the quad and has superior artistry. I would be surprised if any of the current men finished any higher than 7th. And that, I think, is a best-case scenario.

 

[Mrs. P]

He also had a Grand Prix medal, unlike Adam and Josh.

Adam got a silver medal at Skate America last season. He also has a bronze at Skate Canada in 2010.

 

[jenaj]

Adam got a silver medal at Skate America last season. He also has a bronze at Skate Canada in 2010.

I meant in the current season.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Who would I have left off the team? Josh, probably. Adam at least tried the quad and has superior artistry.

Huh? Josh went for the 4T in the LP and actually rotated it - something Adam didn't do. I think if any guy besides Max is anywhere near getting a quad, it's Josh.
I also disagree about the artistry... but that doesn't really matter here.

 

[Mrs. P]

I meant in the current season.

FWIW, Adam was off the podium, but he did place 3rd in the FS at TEB.

It's hard to compare Max and Josh during their GP season cause basically Josh got a late start due to his injuries.

Max can do the jump, but doesn't necessarily mean he can score high TES because of it. He has a high BV, but he hasn't grade of execution for his elements prevent him from really getting in that 85+, 90+ echelon in hte FS consistently you see with some of the quad skaters.

In his career the only time he score 85+ in TES was at 4CC in 2013 (89.63), Worlds in 2013 (85.86) and Skate America 2013 (90.47).

He hasn't scored in that range since Skate America last season.

His scores from the 2012-2013 season was probably a huge reason he got Worlds last year rather than Jason, who up to that point have been scoring around 78-80 at best.

Since 2013 Skate America his FS TES has been all over the place. He dropped to 78.20 at NHK 2013, 75.04 at Worlds 2014. This season he got two 83+ (U.S. International Classic/Skate Canada) TES score in the FS but then dropped to 66.93 at Rostelecom Cup. Not super convincing scores to jump the order and send him to Worlds.

It's not even an issue for artistry for me at this point. I never felt Max's artistry was as lacking as some do here. It's that for being a technician, he doesn't exactly get super high TES marks relative to his competitors. If it was a matter that Max was getting 90+ TES and 70 PCS and/or 85+ TES and 75 PCS (= 160 total FS) on a consistent basis, I could a make a case for sending him. (i.e. like they did in 2014.)

 

[gmyers]

People with lower bv execute better than others with higher bv who might actually get lower than their bv. It might be an issue where aaron really has to start working on his quads to make them better so he can get more goe because its true he isn't getting the goe and maybe he might have to say while he can do quads he can't get the points to make them effective and maybe it would be better for him to maximize goe on triples.

 

[jenaj]

Huh? Josh went for the 4T in the LP and actually rotated it - something Adam didn't do. I think if any guy besides Max is anywhere near getting a quad, it's Josh.
I also disagree about the artistry... but that doesn't really matter here.

Well, OK, then, Adam is off. Or flip a coin. They are two sides of the same.