I remember feeling the judges were too generous at GPF with W/P but with a visible error they gave P/C 112, it is very hard to swallow
2015 Worlds Free Dance March 27
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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I remember feeling the judges were too generous at GPF with W/P but with a visible error they gave P/C 112, it is very hard to swallow
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- Mar 20, 2013
The judges have been deemed P&C as the V&M of this quad. They are the pair with the most natural ability, but they don't yet have the polish of V&M even when V&M began seniors in 2007.
W&P have been shortchanged big time throughout their career. I thought they should have won a bronze over P&B years ago and I thought they should have been World Champions last year. They have done their best and whatever tight moments they had were minor and shouldn't have made such a huge difference in the color of the medals they've won; other teams' minor mistakes didn't cost them as much. I have no idea whether W&P will recover from this. If it's an isolated incident, they can handle it, but it's a persistent pattern that the judges constantly overlook them in favor of others that may be less deserving.
P&C's rapid ascent is now looked with a lot of skepticism rather than joy, unlike the beginning of the season where so many were thrilled with them.
W&P have been shortchanged big time throughout their career. I thought they should have won a bronze over P&B years ago and I thought they should have been World Champions last year. They have done their best and whatever tight moments they had were minor and shouldn't have made such a huge difference in the color of the medals they've won; other teams' minor mistakes didn't cost them as much. I have no idea whether W&P will recover from this. If it's an isolated incident, they can handle it, but it's a persistent pattern that the judges constantly overlook them in favor of others that may be less deserving.
P&C's rapid ascent is now looked with a lot of skepticism rather than joy, unlike the beginning of the season where so many were thrilled with them.
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- Dec 20, 2013
If the judges wanted them to win so badly then they would not have placed them 4th after the SD.
Some people on here are very bitchy about P/C & their high score.
Just accept that other couples who are not V/M or D/W can skate like this & get a high score.
V/M screwed up in their twizzles several times yet still never dropped from the top two, even D/W made errors yet were not held back.
Why can't people accept a new team has come along & taken Ice Dance to yet another level. This takes nothing away from the V/M & D/W era but skating moves on.
P/C made a SMALL timing error yet got it back together quickly. Chock nearly fell over during the twizzles, they were lucky to get Silver.
W/P did nothing new this season. They played safe.
P/C created something special.
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- Mar 7, 2015
please don't insult patrick chan. if he were overscored, he would have won the olympics. patrick is unique and the skate with the best skills… if you wish to talk about overscoring some male skaters, just watch the short program that ended a few hours ago…
I'm very happy for Papadakis/Cizeron.Very sorry for Weaver/Poje because they deserve silver in here. Very angry for Chock/Bates's scoring. For me Chock/Bates is new Patrick Chan of ice dance. :disapp:
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- Jun 9, 2014
Good point on over scoring W/P at the GP Final. As much as I like them I have to agree. I think this gave them a false sense of security that they were the heir apparent plus all the pressure that this status brings. For years W/P were the just-missed team squeezed out by a fraction of a point. They learned to be the underdogs and work harder. Katilyn in particular looked devastated last night but they both held it together well and showed poise and maturity. Time to cry, go buy some good Chinese food, skate a great exhibition and then start planning for next year. What vehicle will take us to the top? I doubt W/P are thinking about changing coaches but you never know. I think the top 3 teams will stick with their current coaching team. The Shibs are the ones that have to be pondering a change. They are University of Michigan students so they like the Detroit connection. No problem there finding choices. But would they better with a different perspective with someone like Dubreuil and Lauzon. The only bad thing there is that they would be the #2 team and I think the Shibs would like top shelf attention. Same problem moving back to Shpilband. Staying with Marina should make them #1 with her. Or is Marina more obsessed with Victoria and Nikita? And what vehicle can Marina provide that will suit their sibling style? I wonder if Carol and Jon Lane might be a good match for the Shibs?
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- Sep 14, 2014
I can see why you think P/C score was too high. Astrid56 implied it should be around 108-109. Fine, that would be also great but this score wouldn't be enough to beat C/B. And 99% of posters didn't want them to win. Of course I'm not saying C/B score was fine, they were also overscored a bit and the P/C needed such a high score. Choose then what you want.
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- Mar 7, 2015
shibs need to move…. and if v/m come back, i hope they also move… it's not about being the #2 team with a coach… it's about the coach only caring for one team…. it was obvious to me, that for sotchi marina invested WAY more in D/W i think W/P should keep their coaches… the best coaches in my humble opinion are in montreal 
not biased at all since I am from there and always loved D/L 
not biased at all since I am from there and always loved D/L
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- Mar 7, 2015
good point… what i read from all the comments : people wanted a fairer scoring overall… and trying to explain why W/P didn't place higher…the point is simple… if we can't have fair scoring and we feel it's rigged… then all we can do is wish for our favourites… and very few would wish for C/B to be WC
so it might as well be P/C and he's gorgeous too so that's niceI don't think the Shibs would move to Montreal, D/L wouldn't be able to focus on them since they already have a top tier team like you said. Marina even though they should be #1 under her doesn't seem like she's all that focused on them either. Carol and Jon Lane have G/P don't they? If Shibs want the sole attention then I'm not sure they would be a good fit for them.
I'm sticking up for Marina and saying she gives her best to her students. She is a no-nonsense, here's what I think approach. V/M had physical issues (mostly Tessa) over the 4 years prior to 2014 and those impacted her training ability and ultimately their product. They are magnificent champions but Davis and White prevailed in 2014. If they thought another coach would take them back to gold they should have moved. After the post-Olympics comments by V/M it's most likely if they do return that it will be with a different coach. That's probably a good thing for all. Davis and White have pretty much moved on to the next stage of their adult life so I would be very surprised to see them return. I do think it's difficult to juggle multiple top teams but a lot has to do with the team's willingness collectively and individually to take what's taught to them and work at it and own it. When things don't go your way sometimes it's what you did or didn't do; sometimes it's bad luck but don't look to blame others.
shibs need to move…. and if v/m come back, i hope they also move… it's not about being the #2 team with a coach… it's about the coach only caring for one team…. it was obvious to me, that for sotchi marina invested WAY more in D/W i think W/P should keep their coaches… the best coaches in my humble opinion are in montreal
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- Mar 7, 2015
i feel bad for the shibs… they were bronze medalist so quickly and since then, slim pickings…. yet, i love their skating… they definitely need a different coach and choreographer. do the duchesnay coach? haha just trying to think about bringing the sibling element somewhere else… they are made to look bit too innocent and young with this style.. when other teams are going for much more intense programs… which is rewarded.
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- Mar 7, 2015
fair enough… i was just going with the comments post olympics from V/M. and also their "tv show" their relationship with Marina was feeling flat. i am not a skater but what I do is very close to skating…. not in terms of sport, but everything else… i am a performing artist, we work hours and hours, and in the end, our work is judged very subjectively…. we do get mentors/coaches etc… so I know the aspect of how important it is to be with a good mentor… when it's right, one mentor can be great for an entire life… but when things do not evolve, despite the mentor being great, competent, and dedicated, there is a need to explore other avenues… the shibs need new ideas, new eyes…and if anything, it would shake them, challenge them, and revive the judges interest in them… at least just to see if they were right to switch… i have seen them perform numerous time with great delivery… it's not a pressure issue for them… it's really how people see them
IMHO the results are total BS. While I LOVE P/C, think their program is quite magical, the scores were ridiculous and unwarranted. Tons of crossovers & 2-foot skating. C/B, however, have no magic - just boring & ss meh. The Shibs should have been on the podium, not them. W/P's program was by far the best & they should have won. Disagree that they were overscored at GPF. Their choreography is more complex, the program a masterpiece, they use few crossovers & skate with speed & joy. The dance judging seems to be more random every year -- it's hard to trust that the judges really know what they are doing any more. There -- I've had my rant & I feel better!
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- Mar 7, 2015
my thoughts too
IMHO the results are total BS. While I LOVE P/C, think their program is quite magical, the scores were ridiculous and unwarranted. Tons of crossovers & 2-foot skating. C/B, however, have no magic - just boring & ss meh. The Shibs should have been on the podium, not them. W/P's program was by far the best & they should have won. Disagree that they were overscored at GPF. Their choreography is more complex, the program a masterpiece, they use few crossovers & skate with speed & joy. The dance judging seems to be more random every year -- it's hard to trust that the judges really know what they are doing any more. There -- I've had my rant & I feel better!
Interesting comment. I appreciate the reflective nature of one artist to another's medium. Although skating has only been a hobby in my life, I do appreciate the passion and dedication that all artists bring to their craft. I totally agree with you that the Shibs have the heart, head and ability for this sport and can/should be on the podium. You bring up an excellent point that the coach needs to bring a revival to the way in which the judges see the Shibs skating.
I do think the Shibs have found a great mentor in Scali. And the feeling appeals mutual, judging from his comments about them. I think he played an instrumental role in their SD, which was a fan favorite this year (and who expected that one of the better Pasos would come from a sibling team?)
I think you see old-school Marina more in the FD, which is why it felt a bit antiquated to many fans.
I'm hoping that perhaps Scali can do more work on both the SD/FD (or they can some how get Peter T to choreograph for them). I am one of like two people who don't think they need a coaching change. I might have felt differently if not for the success they did have this season: First GPF appearance since 2012, first ISU Championship medal (at 4CC) since 2011 and brand new personal bests (which had dated back to their breakout season in 2011). Also Scali's work has made me inclined to think it's worth sticking around.
As for the judges, I think they are slowly coming around to them. It may seem sort of frustrating given the meteoritic rise of other teams, but in a sense, they already had one meteortic rise during their first season and perhaps it's good to just see incremental, but positive momentum. They broke 50 barrier in TES/PCS in the FS for the first time in their careers at Worlds. (Even when they won bronze back in 2011, their FS TES/PCS was in the 48 range). Their PCS was the closest yet to the top teams then it had been in past years.
They have four years to make this momentum work for them. I'm eager to see what happens.
I think you see old-school Marina more in the FD, which is why it felt a bit antiquated to many fans.
I'm hoping that perhaps Scali can do more work on both the SD/FD (or they can some how get Peter T to choreograph for them). I am one of like two people who don't think they need a coaching change. I might have felt differently if not for the success they did have this season: First GPF appearance since 2012, first ISU Championship medal (at 4CC) since 2011 and brand new personal bests (which had dated back to their breakout season in 2011). Also Scali's work has made me inclined to think it's worth sticking around.
As for the judges, I think they are slowly coming around to them. It may seem sort of frustrating given the meteoritic rise of other teams, but in a sense, they already had one meteortic rise during their first season and perhaps it's good to just see incremental, but positive momentum. They broke 50 barrier in TES/PCS in the FS for the first time in their careers at Worlds. (Even when they won bronze back in 2011, their FS TES/PCS was in the 48 range). Their PCS was the closest yet to the top teams then it had been in past years.
They have four years to make this momentum work for them. I'm eager to see what happens.
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