2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating
- Thread starter moriel
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I think it's way too early to declare Anna a lock for the Russian team. At this point last year, most predicted the world championship would be contested solely between Liza and Mao.
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- Mar 26, 2014
As I said, it's based on what I saw so far: test skates, Bs, and JO. Of course, many things can happen.
Actually, I can agree about Mao: her JO showed big promise last year. But Liza skipped Bs and did not show up until GP which was a bad sign. Her JO was quite weak unlike Anna and Zhenya this year.
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- Mar 23, 2014
I would like to see a perfect Anna beat Evgenia, but I don't think CoP will ever let it happen. I love Evgenia, but her LP is a rehash of last season, but not nearly as good. If you're going to stay similar, you've got to make it better. Judges don't seem to mind though.
In contrast to samey Evgenia, Anna's development is much more interesting, IMO. Also, I wonder how Evgenia feels about Polina T., and how both girls will handle training together during the Olympic season. I expect them both to be heavy favorites. Fingers crossed Polina doesn't start working with Averbukh when she turns senior.
In contrast to samey Evgenia, Anna's development is much more interesting, IMO. Also, I wonder how Evgenia feels about Polina T., and how both girls will handle training together during the Olympic season. I expect them both to be heavy favorites. Fingers crossed Polina doesn't start working with Averbukh when she turns senior.
As of the current conditions Russian ladies showed at Open skates and other competitions, Masha is CLEARLY a second number.
Your point that she didn't yet reach 200 point does not consider a simple thing that Masha has just turned senior, and hasn't got any senior level scores yet.
Believe me, once she performs clean programs at GP you will see a significant jump both in her GOEs and PCS. A year ago at Nepela Evgenia got 184, but then already at Skate America her total score was 23points higher despite the fall.
Whether 2nd or 3rd, I don't see who would be other TWO senior ladies to place above her at Nationals. Unless she gets injured. Plus Masha is with Buianova now and CSKA support within Russia is quite noticable.
Pogo's performance in Japan was technically weaker than Masha's at Nepela despite Masha's URs. Pogo though can be hot and cold, and if she is on she could even possibly be number 1. So, as for now Pogo seems to be most likely one of the three to be sent to Euros and Worlds. Pogo also tends to be pretty strong at Nationals.
Liza was pretty good in Germany, but yet not enough to Pogo's or Masha's current level. But she already progressed a lot since Open skates and if she gains form as it was in 2014-15 she definitely can be one of three.
As for both Yulia and Elena, I highly doubt they would be able to compete for three spots. With Yulia it has been simply too long that she cannot make herself to gain enough stamina for LP, so I don't see a reason why would she suddenly change. Puberty is gone, she has no injuries, coach is not anymore new, there's been plenty of time - she has everything to get back to her level, still she showed the lowest score she's ever got at international competition including junior years.
As far as Elena, I don't see how could she get her shape/programs to the top level for such a short time. She clearly could not skate neither SP nor LP a couple of weeks ago, and the illness could not be serious enough to affect her performance that bad, or she would get withdrawn from Open Skates even before SP. She skated with the cold and fever before at 2015 Worlds and 2014 Final and it was still nearly all clean. She also seem to need more time as her body now not only tall but has also much volumnized - she has to adjust to it. Plus the problems with unclean landings remain. Russian Fed. understands it, and will unlikely support her with score inflations and PCS. It would be way too hard for her at this point to be one of three.
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That's very interesting indeed. I hope they both will avoid injuries.
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- May 2, 2015
Liza T. has done one Senior B last season before GP series, a Cup of Nice. She has even won it, although barely. It's not a Challenger, but it's still Senior B.
You can't write off Elena based on test skates that took place before the season started and while she was not well. Any flu can completely drain you out of energy. When I have flu, sometimes I am so weak that I wouldn't even get out of bed. So I am not sure why you think that illness couldn't make her skate so badly. Look at Ashley Wagners performance at Japan open last year. It was a mess. And yet a few weeks later she was fine at her GP events.
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- Mar 17, 2015
I just realized recently that all Russian Senior ladies (except Sotskova who just turned senior) are World or Olympic medalists lol !!!
I mean respect you know!
My impressions from this beginning of the season:
- Liza's outing in Germany was really encouraging. I was really happy for her. But honestly I don't expect her to be consistent. Her being so happy with her program was cute and understandable after such a tough season but at the same time it showed it wasn't really expected...
- Elena: mystery but I kind of expect a catastrophic season from her. She really grew a lot and her jumps were already strained.
- Yulia : I think she is doing a bit better. The LP is really gonna be an issue. I think she needs more time and to compete a lot. I don't think it is gonna happen for her this season
- Adelina : it breaks my heart but I think she is done. Her programs were amazing at the test skate and she had seemed to be training quite hard but this partaking in tv shows and Plushenko ice tour are no good news for her competitive skating. Honestly I don't get what she is doing because she still seems to want to compete and has trained a lot to regain some of her jumps/form but she also green lights all those side projects...
- Anna : I am excited for her, I think it is her year. I hope she slays. I want her to beat Evgenia :big grin:
- Evgenia : world number 1 and treated as such in the marks. I still dislike her skating and programs even more than last year but appart from a Gracie or a Mao (maybe an Anna) that go full out and are foot perfect (so nearly impossible), I don't see anyone beating her this season.
- Maria : Those programs do nothing for me. She is solid though and I expect her to do very well.
I mean respect you know!
My impressions from this beginning of the season:
- Liza's outing in Germany was really encouraging. I was really happy for her. But honestly I don't expect her to be consistent. Her being so happy with her program was cute and understandable after such a tough season but at the same time it showed it wasn't really expected...
- Elena: mystery but I kind of expect a catastrophic season from her. She really grew a lot and her jumps were already strained.
- Yulia : I think she is doing a bit better. The LP is really gonna be an issue. I think she needs more time and to compete a lot. I don't think it is gonna happen for her this season
- Adelina : it breaks my heart but I think she is done. Her programs were amazing at the test skate and she had seemed to be training quite hard but this partaking in tv shows and Plushenko ice tour are no good news for her competitive skating. Honestly I don't get what she is doing because she still seems to want to compete and has trained a lot to regain some of her jumps/form but she also green lights all those side projects...
- Anna : I am excited for her, I think it is her year. I hope she slays. I want her to beat Evgenia :big grin:
- Evgenia : world number 1 and treated as such in the marks. I still dislike her skating and programs even more than last year but appart from a Gracie or a Mao (maybe an Anna) that go full out and are foot perfect (so nearly impossible), I don't see anyone beating her this season.
- Maria : Those programs do nothing for me. She is solid though and I expect her to do very well.
Imho...
Adelina, Yulia and Liza. My thought here: russian fed will not keep supporting them after 2 bad seasons in a row, with no puberty excuse and talented juniors advancing to seniors next year. They will also have to work veryvery hard to get this 3rd spot and its really unlikely.
Anna and Evgenia seem to be confidently taking those first 2 spots. If they perform same as last year, they are pretty much in. If they falter a little bit (such as a bad skate at nationals), they still have the next year, so they should be fine.
Elena: she needs to improve to remain competitive, but her situation is less bad than that of Ade, Yulia and Liza, as she just had 1 average season. Average because she still got to go to Euros and Worlds.
Maria: not sure about her, waiting for more competitions.
Adelina, Yulia and Liza. My thought here: russian fed will not keep supporting them after 2 bad seasons in a row, with no puberty excuse and talented juniors advancing to seniors next year. They will also have to work veryvery hard to get this 3rd spot and its really unlikely.
Anna and Evgenia seem to be confidently taking those first 2 spots. If they perform same as last year, they are pretty much in. If they falter a little bit (such as a bad skate at nationals), they still have the next year, so they should be fine.
Elena: she needs to improve to remain competitive, but her situation is less bad than that of Ade, Yulia and Liza, as she just had 1 average season. Average because she still got to go to Euros and Worlds.
Maria: not sure about her, waiting for more competitions.
Elena had an average season? Really? She scored the whole season 184-222. She medalled at every competition she entered except of the worlds, she qualified to GPF and medalled there, she got silver at Europeans, silver at Russian nationals in a very competitive field, yes, I can see what average season she has had! What a failure she is. Do you want to count how many ladies in the world had last season better than hers?
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- Mar 23, 2014
Elena certainly had an above-average season, but it was worse than her 2014-2015 season where she was neck-and-neck with Liza the entire time, and kind of proved that she needs others to make mistakes in order to medal. She lost to Evgenia at Euros even when Evgenia fell and Elena didn't, and formerly distant #3 Russian Anna beat her handily at Worlds.
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- Nov 6, 2014
I'm not agree with you. Maria's programs are excellent, especially LP. I really like her LP, it is a masterpiece.
We all understand that you are Elena's fan, but thinking reaslistically from the point of view of TOP SKATERS like she is treated she had an average season. Why? here it is:
- It was not as successful as her previous seasons
- It in a way, demotivated her, showing that even with two clean skates she loses to Evgenia who fell at Euros, and 5 other skaters at Worlds. She did maximum there, still was not on the podium. It must be very disappointing, but it shows that the flaws in her jumping technique need to be fixed somehow, or she won't be able to be on the top. But it is a huge issue to change the way a skater used to jump, and would need tons of time and work, and it is hardly possible considering that she also has now this drastically changed body. I don't see simply how she could make it into team this year.
I see Liza Tuk's current situation much better than Elena's. At least Liza is past puberty and her jumping technique is textbook; she needs to gain the form fully and get comfortable with new programs. If she skates like in 2014-2015, even with her current layot and without 3A - she most likely would be in the team.
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- Nov 30, 2014
Unfortunately, I agree with you. Elena has done a tremendous job to remain in the top 3 Russian ladies for several years now, no small feat. However, I think this season will be the most difficult yet for her. We've already seen top skaters like Liza/Adelina getting left behind, I don't think anyone is safe in this competitive field...
I am not Elena's fan at all. Personally I prefer Lipnitskaya, even though she currently still struggles . However, I am not going to pretend that any skater (including Elena) had average season only because she messed up one competition in the whole season and did not medal. Did she had on average worse season than the season before? Yes, because she did not medal at worlds and the season before she did. However, in comparison with other top skaters, she had bette season than most of them. There was only six skaters that qualified to GP event. She was one of them, and she medalled. She also medalled in the most competitive field at Russian nationals. And at Europeans. So even if she didn't medalled at worlds, I would say that if comparing the results from the whole season, due to her consistency she was among the best three in the world. She was more consistent and had better overall results than Pogorilaya, Wagner and Gold.
I dunno, i get my good, average and bad by comparison among russian ladies. I try not to take into account my own preferences, just sheer numbers.
Good:
Evgenia has a great season, beating everything and everyone, and had a good start this season
Anna Pogo had a great season, evolved a lot, showed less creepy falls and medaled at worlds. Based on results, solid #2. Also, she had a good start this season.
Average:
Elena had a not so solid last season, strugglying with grow spurt. She didnt medal at Worlds even with a good performance. This season, she had a bad start, with that weird test skate, which may be due to sickness, but still not so promising.
Maria S. has first senior year. She was pretty good in juniors, and she started this season well. Still, she is not in the 210+ club yet.
Bad:
Adelina didn´t put two good skates together since Olympics. She struggles with her jumps and has stamina issues. She is pretty much doing shows till Nationals this year instead of competing, and it makes it look like she is not even very interested.
Yulia didn´t put two good skates together since Olympics. She still seems to struggle with her LP this season, without the puberty or coach change excuses that she had last season. It seems that she would only manage to get the third spot if other skaters fail, not on her own merit.
Liza still struggles with her jumps and stamina, and her programs are pretty weak artistically compared to other top ladies. Same as Yulia, she may have some chance for the 3rd spot, but thats debatable because the field is overall way deeper, its not likely she will manage to win everything like in 2014-15.
Out of those, i think Evgenia and Anna, unless they have an epic meldtown at nationals, have good chances of making the team.
And Maria S, Elena and Liza will fight for the 3rd spot.
Imho, just imho, Adelina and Yulia are kinda out of the mix.
Good:
Evgenia has a great season, beating everything and everyone, and had a good start this season
Anna Pogo had a great season, evolved a lot, showed less creepy falls and medaled at worlds. Based on results, solid #2. Also, she had a good start this season.
Average:
Elena had a not so solid last season, strugglying with grow spurt. She didnt medal at Worlds even with a good performance. This season, she had a bad start, with that weird test skate, which may be due to sickness, but still not so promising.
Maria S. has first senior year. She was pretty good in juniors, and she started this season well. Still, she is not in the 210+ club yet.
Bad:
Adelina didn´t put two good skates together since Olympics. She struggles with her jumps and has stamina issues. She is pretty much doing shows till Nationals this year instead of competing, and it makes it look like she is not even very interested.
Yulia didn´t put two good skates together since Olympics. She still seems to struggle with her LP this season, without the puberty or coach change excuses that she had last season. It seems that she would only manage to get the third spot if other skaters fail, not on her own merit.
Liza still struggles with her jumps and stamina, and her programs are pretty weak artistically compared to other top ladies. Same as Yulia, she may have some chance for the 3rd spot, but thats debatable because the field is overall way deeper, its not likely she will manage to win everything like in 2014-15.
Out of those, i think Evgenia and Anna, unless they have an epic meldtown at nationals, have good chances of making the team.
And Maria S, Elena and Liza will fight for the 3rd spot.
Imho, just imho, Adelina and Yulia are kinda out of the mix.
It does not really matter if to call her last season successful or not, but it is the fact that she obviously much behind of all her main competitors at this point plus to some unresolvable tech issues, is what makes some people, including me, not believe in her making a Russian team this season.
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- Nov 6, 2014
Why would you do such conclusions on the basis of her SP on open skates? She was sick there. I'm sure Elena will fight for a place in the team and will make it. She's a real fighter.
So according to some posters here, Pogorilaya had a great season, while she did not manage to medal at either of her GP events and at one scoring even 164. She obviously did not get to GPF.
And Radionova had an average season when she medalled at every event she entered except of worlds. No matter she did get to GPF and medalled there... Her lowest score from the season was 184.
Radionova beat Pogorilaya at three out of four competitions they competed against each other. One GP event, Russian nationals and Europeans. Whereas Pogorilaya beat Radionova only at worlds.
I would say that either both ladies had pretty good season, or Elena had better season than Anna and if Elena's season is called average, I am dreading to think what Anna's season would be.
And Radionova had an average season when she medalled at every event she entered except of worlds. No matter she did get to GPF and medalled there... Her lowest score from the season was 184.
Radionova beat Pogorilaya at three out of four competitions they competed against each other. One GP event, Russian nationals and Europeans. Whereas Pogorilaya beat Radionova only at worlds.
I would say that either both ladies had pretty good season, or Elena had better season than Anna and if Elena's season is called average, I am dreading to think what Anna's season would be.
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