2016-2017 State of U.S. Pairs | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2016-2017 State of U.S. Pairs

My analysis of the pairs that appeared at GP so far:

D/F: I really like the way they emote themselves and the posture of their throws. Frequently GSers complain how North American skaters don't have the same balletic qualities as Russian and Chinese pairs and lamented when Yankowskas/Coughlin split, but I think this pair is probably the closest yet. They have a softness in their skating that most other U.S. pairs don't have. They need to work on their SBS though; although I understand that Denney has just recovered from an injury, their jumps weren't that solid even when they didn't have the injury back at SA 2014. They should really work on that 3S as it is really close, and then nail the 2A sequence OR explore the 3T as their BV isn't enough to match top pairs. However, clean programs is top priority, so probably only include the 3T when everything else is settled and consistent. They COULD try the 4STh, but they really need to make sure everything else is top notch consistent first, so maybe really long term plan for them.

K/O: Not sure what is going on with them. They were the American pair we never had to worry about because they had the most solid SBS jumps. Now, they are struggling to even get positive GOE on them. Their twist is slightly improving, but it isn't enough, and their 3FTh is very inconsistent and tends to lean frequently in the air, causing a lot of falls. I attribute that to technique problems. Artistic wise they really need to extend and stretch out those limbs. Maybe better programs too? :think: I'm not really over the moon with their programs. Same drill with them: work on that SBS because that should be their strength. They REALLY need a twist coach or O'Shea needs to work out more or SOMETHING, because I've been stressing this over and over that their twist really costs them. Their throw flip also needs to be reexamined; either look at what's wrong with it and fix it and make it consistent, or give up on it and go back to the loop because the different in BV isn't monstrous. I know they tried the throw quad salchow, but at this point I would just consider going clean as in the judges' eyes they aren't in S/K or D/F tier yet. They should also try to make their crossovers smoother; I think (maybe it's just me) that it looks scratchy when compared to D/F or C/T.

C/T: They have a really good connection with each other, and I really enjoy watching them. Their skating skills, IMO, are top notch, and look really smooth. What is really deterring them from ever "breaking out" and making a splash at international competitions is the tech. They need to work on those SBS; do them 20, 30 times a day, I don't care, but really those jumps are costly. Their throw 3S is gorgeous, but they need to bring out its full potential EVERY time. Need to work on the flip more as well, although I understand they got it fairly recently. After all those issues are addressed, work on the twist, because it is inconsistent as well.

P/S: When I first saw them last year, I thought they were really lovely and could fill the void left by Aaron/Settlage. Now, I think their chances of breaking through is becoming very slim with their recent last place finish at CoC. First things first, they need the twist. A double twist is just not going to cut it. Their SBS were really solid last year; now, they are really telling the world they are an American pairs team with the SBS mistakes, so again, same drill, WORK ON THOSE SBS. Can I just have a team with no SBS issues whatsoever? What is up with the pairs who originally didn't have SBS issues now all of a sudden can't land their jumps? :drama: Their throws used to be good too, but are deteriorating. Is it because he can't dedicate enough time to skating since he has to juggle with school and work? Although I respect what he is doing, their partnership will probably not last if he can't commit. It is just the cruel reality of this sport.

Also, even though S/K hasn't appeared this season yet, some thoughts on them. They are proving to be the U.S.'s best bet in terms of international success. They have the twist, they have the throws, they have the pairs elements. They just need the SBS jumps. I would say Alexa's are generally consistent. Chris REALLY needs some work, although I can understand his height is a real hinder to rotating those jumps. My frustration is that with most of the Russian and Chinese pairs, the girl can't match the guy in terms of SBS, but in this case it's the opposite. She can do even harder SBS, like a 3T combo (consistency is yet to be determined). I would like to commend him though because he started skating really late, but in the end, same thing with the others. WORK ON YOUR SBS JUMPS.

So, moral of this long post is? We really need to work on those SBS jumps. Sigh. Notice how basically ALL of the pairs need to work on their jumps? So much, so much potential, but we just can't seem to get over the SBS hurdle.
 
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Haven and Brandon are pretty promising in my opinion. Since you're saying Haven's look, I've always thought Bradon resembles Clive Owen and Chris Knierim resembles David Gandy. :) Haven and Brandon's classic style is not like any other American pair teams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFOjR5Ja_kU Erika SMITH / AJ REISS (USA) SP at Nebelhorn Trophy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHKR8leSS-8 Erika SMITH / AJ REISS (USA) FS at Nebelhorn Trophy

Erika and AJ are an exciting team who competed at Nationals last year. They were fast and dynamic with great personalities. You can also find the other teams' clip on YouTube.

Yes, Brandon does resemble Clive Owen, lol. Yes, I think I heard the commentators say something like they've been skating together for many years, but they started out as rollerblading competitors. They have great unison, wonderful connection, great skating skills/throws/lifts......I mean, just look at their throw jump here at 1:04, the length that it gets! just wow! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGPCgmhpO8M&t=327s and I think Haven has the best air lift positions of any ladies in pairs at the moment, with her arched back and carefree positions.....if you compare her air position to Peng cheng of china ( just watched their love story lp at cup of china and thought they were brilliant), for example, Pengs back is very stiff...

Just watched some videos of the last three pairs on your list, I couldn't find deanna stellato and Nathan bartholomay's videos, but i recall nathan skated with felicia zhang, who skated with another guy before him, but I can't remember his name, I think his first name was Tim? but I thought they were a good pair, they just couldn't get the lifts right.
 
Haven and Brandon are pretty promising in my opinion. Since you're saying Haven's look, I've always thought Bradon resembles Clive Owen and Chris Knierim resembles David Gandy. :) Haven and Brandon's classic style is not like any other American pair teams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFOjR5Ja_kU Erika SMITH / AJ REISS (USA) SP at Nebelhorn Trophy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHKR8leSS-8 Erika SMITH / AJ REISS (USA) FS at Nebelhorn Trophy

Erika and AJ are an exciting team who competed at Nationals last year. They were fast and dynamic with great personalities. You can also find the other teams' clip on YouTube.

Ashley Cain / Timothy Leduc formed their partnership during the off season, but they have competed a couple of CS events. They are tall and strong jumpers with great basics.

Jessica Pfund / Joshua Santillan competed at Cup of China but I wasn't impressed by the team. They need to work on many things.

Deanna Stellato / Nathan Bartholomay are an interesting team as Deanna hadn't competed for almost 15 years.

found another guy I think brandon looks like, LOL! John krasinski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Krasinski
 
My analysis of the pairs that appeared at GP so far:

So, moral of this long post is? We really need to work on those SBS jumps. Sigh. Notice how basically ALL of the pairs need to work on their jumps? So much, so much potential, but we just can't seem to get over the SBS hurdle.

You sum the current problem up very well. Among all said teams, Castelli and Tran are the most frustrating team for me for now. They have all goods and skills, but why can't they make a breakthrough.
 
You sum the current problem up very well. Among all said teams, Castelli and Tran are the most frustrating team for me for now. They have all goods and skills, but why can't they make a breakthrough.

I love Marissa and Mervin but find at this point I am getting impatient with them! And there are times when I almost feel like Mervin isn't strong enough to do the throw elements. I keep telling myself to be patient, since they did get a little sidetracked because of Mervin's concussion. The clock is ticking though, and those SBS jumps have to start clicking! :sad4:
 
Agree that Marissa and Mervin are the most frustrating because they have the most potentially. Get them out there skating next to the Russians and the Chinese and Aliona/Bruno and they fit right in - until it comes time to do some elements. Maybe if they had found each other years earlier they could've been something special, at least as far as American pairs go.
 
Agree that Marissa and Mervin are the most frustrating because they have the most potentially. Get them out there skating next to the Russians and the Chinese and Aliona/Bruno and they fit right in - until it comes time to do some elements. Maybe if they had found each other years earlier they could've been something special, at least as far as American pairs go.

If I recall, jumps have never been Mervin's strong point. When the Takahashi/Tran pair split, many people were critical about Narumi's jumps, but Mervin sometimes missed them too. I loved that pair, because they were cute and fun, but they seemed to do much better with lifts and twists than jumps. I don't know much about Marissa, but if she is a better jumper, then I guess Mervin has to catch up with her. If they both struggle with jumps, then they probably need to focus on that. I enjoy watching them and hope they will get there.
 
If I recall, jumps have never been Mervin's strong point. When the Takahashi/Tran pair split, many people were critical about Narumi's jumps, but Mervin sometimes missed them too. I loved that pair, because they were cute and fun, but they seemed to do much better with lifts and twists than jumps. I don't know much about Marissa, but if she is a better jumper, then I guess Mervin has to catch up with her. If they both struggle with jumps, then they probably need to focus on that. I enjoy watching them and hope they will get there.

I remember them talking in an interview (TSL maybe?) about how they knew they had to concentrate on their jumps, and I thought they had done so in the off season. But I guess practicing it still isn't like doing it in competition. Anyway, very frustrating that one of them falls or they fall in sync. Sure hope they can get it together for Nationals.
 
Lots of great potential but they need consistency in their performances and sbs. Easier said then done. I noticed the comparisons of the top teams did not include the Canadians. Interesting or was that an oversight. Now there are two Canadian teams in the mix. The US will be in trouble if two Canadians beat them - worse if all three beat them.
 
Lots of great potential but they need consistency in their performances and sbs. Easier said then done. I noticed the comparisons of the top teams did not include the Canadians. Interesting or was that an oversight. Now there are two Canadian teams in the mix. The US will be in trouble if two Canadians beat them - worse if all three beat them.

:confused: The analysis that Tastetherainbow did was only of the US pairs that were on the Grand Prix so far (Denney/Frazier, Castelli/Tran, Pfund/Santillan, and Kayne/O'Shea) - why would they analyze the Canadian teams in the U.S. Pairs thread?
 
I love Marissa and Mervin but find at this point I am getting impatient with them! And there are times when I almost feel like Mervin isn't strong enough to do the throw elements. I keep telling myself to be patient, since they did get a little sidetracked because of Mervin's concussion. The clock is ticking though, and those SBS jumps have to start clicking! :sad4:

I was very impressed by them when they first performed their Journey medley (could have just been steve perry music, lol), but what a hot mess they are! I think they should split. I actually don't see any connection between them.

I can't recall any good american pairs team in the past from top of my head.....but HELLO Haven and Brandon!

wait, there was Jenny Meno and Todd Sand.....but they were no Goordeeva and Grinkov....I actually thought Galindo and kristi yamaguchi made a good team.
 
I was very impressed by them when they first performed their Journey medley (could have just been steve perry music, lol), but what a hot mess they are! I think they should split. I actually don't see any connection between them.

I can't recall any good american pairs team in the past from top of my head.....but HELLO Haven and Brandon!

wait, there was Jenny Meno and Todd Sand.....but they were no Goordeeva and Grinkov....I actually thought Galindo and kristi yamaguchi made a good team.

:sad4: Waaaahhh -- hot mess is right. But I'm not ready to give up on them (yet). And I'm trying to not think too much about this past weekend where we saw the two Chinese teams that had been together - what? 3 or 4 months? {{sigh}} I still keep having recurring dreams that Tamara Moskvina comes to the U.S. and opens a pairs' school and whips our pairs into shape. :drama:

Haven and Brandon -- VERY bright spot. They were magical at SA and I loved them at SC too. It was a little spooky seeing that knee brace (?) on her leg. They actually train not too far from me with Rockne Brubaker. I keep wanting to go over to their rink and see if I could just happen to "accidentally" bump into them...Meno and Sand - wow, that's so long ago it's like an acid flashback.

Meantime, I am going to be hopeful that Marissa and Mervin get it together for Nationals. Whom will we send to Worlds? Even if Knieram and Knieram are back, are they competition ready? :confused2:: Lots more questions than answers!...As far as G & G go, there will never ever be another G & G!

ETA - I'm actually a big fan of Tarah and Danny too and will be interested to see how they do this weekend. Not so sure about their consistency though.
 
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I was very impressed by them when they first performed their Journey medley (could have just been steve perry music, lol), but what a hot mess they are! I think they should split. I actually don't see any connection between them.

I can't recall any good american pairs team in the past from top of my head.....but HELLO Haven and Brandon!

wait, there was Jenny Meno and Todd Sand.....but they were no Goordeeva and Grinkov....I actually thought Galindo and kristi yamaguchi made a good team.

The Olympic in Korea is only one year and a couple of month away, so splitting the partnership right now wouldn't be any advantageous for them. Mervin suffered a concussion during the end of the off season, so I can have more patience with their struggling.

By the way, even Russia hasn't produced teams these days like G & G or other legendary skaters in the past.
 
The Olympic in Korea is only one year and a couple of month away, so splitting the partnership right now wouldn't be any advantageous for them. Mervin suffered a concussion during the end of the off season, so I can have more patience with their struggling.

By the way, even Russia hasn't produced teams these days like G & G or other legendary skaters in the past.

That's true about the concussion. They're probably lucky he wasn't out with that longer than he was. I suppose this is the true test where they have to stay together and see if they can improve, rather than splitting up too fast as the American pairs tend to do. Patience, patience...This talk of a Russian pair made me think of Rodnina and Zaitsev. Wow! Those were the days! A friend of mine and I were just talking about them the other day.
 
:sad4: Waaaahhh -- hot mess is right. But I'm not ready to give up on them (yet). And I'm trying to not think too much about this past weekend where we saw the two Chinese teams that had been together - what? 3 or 4 months? {{sigh}} I still keep having recurring dreams that Tamara Moskvina comes to the U.S. and opens a pairs' school and whips our pairs into shape. :drama:

Haven and Brandon -- VERY bright spot. They were magical at SA and I loved them at SC too. It was a little spooky seeing that knee brace (?) on her leg. They actually train not too far from me with Rockne Brubaker. I keep wanting to go over to their rink and see if I could just happen to "accidentally" bump into them...Meno and Sand - wow, that's so long ago it's like an acid flashback.

Meantime, I am going to be hopeful that Marissa and Mervin get it together for Nationals. Whom will we send to Worlds? Even if Knieram and Knieram are back, are they competition ready? :confused2:: Lots more questions than answers!...As far as G & G go, there will never ever be another G & G!

ETA - I'm actually a big fan of Tarah and Danny too and will be interested to see how they do this weekend. Not so sure about their consistency though.

I like tarah and danny too.
I did not know Mervin had a concussion. Let's see if they can produce at nationals, haha. good luck to them. I saw their tsl interview on youtube about their partnership, and they seem to like each other, they just need to land those jumps!
 
That's true about the concussion. They're probably lucky he wasn't out with that longer than he was. I suppose this is the true test where they have to stay together and see if they can improve, rather than splitting up too fast as the American pairs tend to do. Patience, patience...This talk of a Russian pair made me think of Rodnina and Zaitsev. Wow! Those were the days! A friend of mine and I were just talking about them the other day.

Given that a lot of injuries in pairs led abrupt and last minute withdrawals in the GP series, I've imagined what if they had been assigned to later events of the GP series...They could've done a little or much better than what they actually did in the two outings after the concussion. Mervin and Marissa's uncanny mistake on a lift at Skate Canada was a clear sign of Mervin's physical status I think.

Yep, US pairs need to have more patience considering the long partnership building of Chinese and Russian pairs. One of my long-time wishes for the sport is to see US Olympic and World pair champions after my another wish that Europeans other than Russia take OGM. :) Haven and Brandon can perhaps fulfill my dream.
 
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The Olympic in Korea is only one year and a couple of month away, so splitting the partnership right now wouldn't be any advantageous for them. Mervin suffered a concussion during the end of the off season, so I can have more patience with their struggling.

By the way, even Russia hasn't produced teams these days like G & G or other legendary skaters in the past.

This team is not eligible for the Olympics anyways, as Mervin is not a US citizen. Being that they he does not even live in the US, the chance of him getting citizenship is about 0.
 
This team is not eligible for the Olympics anyways, as Mervin is not a US citizen. Being that they he does not even live in the US, the chance of him getting citizenship is about 0.

I know there are certain requirements to obtain citizenship, but a lot of skaters who switch to compete for another country get that even though they and live and train overseas.
 
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