2016 US Nationals Senior Ladies FP

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The ice is too white I think she's still on the air and I couldn't be sure her blade touched the ice already or not.

The quality of NBC feed was quite good. If you download Gracie's program and do it frame by frame her post rotation on ice looks quite obvious. It is somewhere between 90 and 180 degrees which should have got UR call. May be if there are still doubts one has to apply for a jump-a-matron? But Gracie already got one for her flip recently. The problem is that her landing was even not reviewed - it is like "Gracie never URs". Well, as a fan of Evgeniya I am a bit worried. If she got a call for lutz which she has not fixed yet and Gracie has no flip edge calls and her questionable landings are even not reviewed, Gracie can win in Boston. Not the end of the world - I just like Medvedeva this season so much.

Well, if clean with no URs and edges, Mao will the win worlds no doubt. But so far the "if" is quite big. Judges may play a big role in Boston if there is no obvious situation: one of the leaders is clean while others have meltdowns. Then we have a person here who is always on alert telling us about the flags of the judges and their expected preferences so that we will know it all in advance

 

[aa456]

the zayak rule regarding double jumps is the silliest. :angry1: :angry1: :angry1: :angry1:

 

[R.D.]

Man, just when it seems you're about to give up on her - there she hits. In fact, after Wagner left the door open and Edmunds laid it down and went into 1st, I don't know of anyone around me who expected or even predicted Gold to go clean. Many assumed Edmunds had won it then and there, seemingly even the NBC folks. Gold has choked in almost every similar situation up to this point. While I hope this is a turning point in her figuring things out mentally, by no means am I getting my hopes up. People wrote Wagner off last year before she came back with a vengeance that Nationals and got people's hopes up that perhaps this was her year, the year the US would finally get back on the World podium. Then we all know what happened next...You watch, it'll be the same thing this year, just with Gold this time around.

That being said - congrats to Gold on her 2nd national title. She had to be absolutely perfect to even have a chance after what Edmunds did...and she beat the odds. For probably the first time ever in her career, she delivered when it counted most. OK, that's enough patting on the back - now stop messing up that short program!

If you're Edmunds, though - what's going through your mind? She skated just about as well as she could have skated (rotations aside), had a big lead after the SP....and it STILL wasn't enough to win. That's gotta be...well, disappointing to put it mildly.

 

[Mathman]

the zayak rule regarding double jumps is the silliest. :angry1: :angry1: :angry1: :angry1:

I think they don't want someone doing something like 3Lo, 3o+2T, 3S, 3S+2T, 3T+2T+2T, 2A, 2A

 

[Mathman]

Man,..

Hey, R.D. I know you are primarily a "ladies'" man, but if you get a chance, check out the winning pairs LP.

 

[aa456]

I think they don't want someone doing something like 3Lo, 3o+2T, 3S, 3S+2T, 3T+2T+2T, 2A, 2A

I see your point but it really takes away from having a "free program." especially when skaters start popping triple jumps into doubles and then they have to start thinking on their feet and converting doubles to singles. it's bad enough that a skater pops a triple to a double, then add to it they either 1) zayak, or 2) do singles. it just takes away from their performance. every jump has its base value and if skaters want to do a million doubles instead of triples toes or loops (even flips, like Uno) as combos then it's reflected in their score.

 

[R.D.]

Hey, R.D. I know you are primarily a "ladies'" man, but if you get a chance, check out the winning pairs LP.

I actually did watch some of that coverage (on live extra). They did well too.

 

[jenaj]

I think they don't want someone doing something like 3Lo, 3o+2T, 3S, 3S+2T, 3T+2T+2T, 2A, 2A

But I don't think they should invalidate an entire element, especially when the first double toe was in place of a planned triple. Just invalidate the third double.

 

[inskate]

I think they don't want someone doing something like 3Lo, 3o+2T, 3S, 3S+2T, 3T+2T+2T, 2A, 2A

From what I've heard, the rule was caused by a lot of low-level skaters (who had no triples or only a 3T/3S) filling their programs with repeated doubles of the same kind, resulting in a lack of variety.

I can see where they were going, but it's a really silly rule to implement in elite seniors, IMHO. In a time when a lot of skaters are trying to get consistent quads/3-3s it's sad to see them sometimes double a challenging pass (a costly mistake, but often recoverable if the rest of the program is solid) and forget to alter their combos later on (which usually results in about 10 easy points going down the drain). It's not so easy to adjust a program on the fly.

I agree that they should just invalidate the repeated double, instead of the entire jumping pass. Just enter it as, for example, 3S-2L-*, with the asterisk indicating that there was some sort of jump after 2L, but it was not counted.

 

[Tutto]

Man, just when it seems you're about to give up on her - there she hits. In fact, after Wagner left the door open and Edmunds laid it down and went into 1st, I don't know of anyone around me who expected or even predicted Gold to go clean. Many assumed Edmunds had won it then and there, seemingly even the NBC folks. Gold has choked in almost every similar situation up to this point. While I hope this is a turning point in her figuring things out mentally, by no means am I getting my hopes up. People wrote Wagner off last year before she came back with a vengeance that Nationals and got people's hopes up that perhaps this was her year, the year the US would finally get back on the World podium. Then we all know what happened next...You watch, it'll be the same thing this year, just with Gold this time around.

That being said - congrats to Gold on her 2nd national title. She had to be absolutely perfect to even have a chance after what Edmunds did...and she beat the odds. For probably the first time ever in her career, she delivered when it counted most. OK, that's enough patting on the back - now stop messing up that short program!

If you're Edmunds, though - what's going through your mind? She skated just about as well as she could have skated (rotations aside), had a big lead after the SP....and it STILL wasn't enough to win. That's gotta be...well, disappointing to put it mildly.

Ha ha I've actually decided that from now on I am like giving up on Gracie permanently it seems to work!!!
Re Polina, she needs a better lp to win - nondescript choreo and not so great music cuts combined with a dress of 12 year old school girl can get you only that far. Run from your mother that what I would say to Polina...

 

[Kitt]

As my husband and I were sitting there in the Ladies' LP, we came up with a new rule: unless you are a top 10 lady, do not attempt a jump after the two-minute point in your program. Otherwise, there will be a splat-fest (and there was).

But watching the top 10 was great! And Gracie not choking, what a great surprise! It was fun to be there for the audience reaction.

 

[FlattFan]

On a side note, Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski did a fabulous job on the NBC broadcast of the ladies free. Johnny was candid and informative. Tara was sassy and also insightful. Terry Gannon pulls them together nicely. Really enjoyed their commentary. Johnny expressed his opinions but showed maturity and respect in the way he did it. Loved it.

I'm surprised Johnny and Tara were so candid. I like that. They were good commentators in the ladies free and also the men free.
In the ladies short program, however, Tara was like, "I'm shocked" when Gracie messed up. Is she serious? She should be shocked that Gracie went clean in the LP, not the other way around.

Great job, Gracie. That LP was worthy of world champion level.

 

[fairly4]

my take congrats to Gracie for win. She skate well, Polina good job. Ashley great job even mirai and tyler.

Great job to all. I might have switched tyler and mirai around.

I watch and print copies of the scoring system and reason and still don't get a few things.

 

[MizukiS]

Glad I was able to watch this on tv last Sat. When I saw Gracie looking pale and eyes that seem tired before the start of the program, I just feel so sorry for her. I immediately wish she'll nail her FP. And she did! I'm really rooting for her to do well in Boston. She and Mao on the podium will be great.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

I saw this in person on Saturday and rewatched it today on my DVR. In the arena I felt like Polina deserved to win, even though her performance doesn't really do much for me. However, after watching the recording I can see why Gracie won. It will be interesting to see if she can pull this off again at Worlds! I hope she can build on this and become more expressive.

As an Ashley fan, I loved her performance, but was obviously disappointed in yet another mistake. I hope she can clean things up mentally before worlds. She is better than these errors.

 

[topaz emerald]

Man, just when it seems you're about to give up on her - there she hits. In fact, after Wagner left the door open and Edmunds laid it down and went into 1st, I don't know of anyone around me who expected or even predicted Gold to go clean. Many assumed Edmunds had won it then and there, seemingly even the NBC folks. Gold has choked in almost every similar situation up to this point. While I hope this is a turning point in her figuring things out mentally, by no means am I getting my hopes up. People wrote Wagner off last year before she came back with a vengeance that Nationals and got people's hopes up that perhaps this was her year, the year the US would finally get back on the World podium. Then we all know what happened next...You watch, it'll be the same thing this year, just with Gold this time around.

That being said - congrats to Gold on her 2nd national title. She had to be absolutely perfect to even have a chance after what Edmunds did...and she beat the odds. For probably the first time ever in her career, she delivered when it counted most. OK, that's enough patting on the back - now stop messing up that short program!

If you're Edmunds, though - what's going through your mind? She skated just about as well as she could have skated (rotations aside), had a big lead after the SP....and it STILL wasn't enough to win. That's gotta be...well, disappointing to put it mildly.

I think judges are sending Polina a message....get better programs. They know she cannot win with the programs she has right now against the international ladies.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think judges are sending Polina a message....get better programs. They know she cannot win with the programs she has right now against the international ladies.

I can get on board with that but that's something that USFSA needs to handle at Champs Camp and not at the most crucial part of a half gone season. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the USFSA didn't see how unproductive this behavior on their part would be :cool14:

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

I can get on board with that but that's something that USFSA needs to handle at Champs Camp and not at the most crucial part of a half gone season. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the USFSA didn't see how unproductive this behavior on their part would be :cool14:

Maybe they should repeat Champs Camp more than once per year. Even adding a mid-season check-in would be smart. They could review results and help the athletes and coaches with a plan for the rest of the season. No, they couldn't rework a whole program, but there must be areas they could tweak.

 

[R.D.]

I think judges are sending Polina a message....get better programs.

I'm not sure if the judges are sending her any "message" at all - TBH, if Gold tripped up just once the title would have gone to Edmunds instead. An international panel would have likely done the same. Basically, the only message to Edmunds is one she likely knows already - when Wagner or Gold are at their very best, no other US lady can touch them. Even coming from behind...

Having said that - if Edmunds wants to take the next step to be competitive with the top crop, she'll need to get out of her comfort zone. Unfortunately, this may mean giving up some of that consistency, at least temporarily. But if you want to improve, there's always risk involved.

 

[Jammers]

I've said this time and again Polina needs a program that requires her to be fast and lets her have fun with it like the Cha Cha Cha SP from 2014. All we get now is nice twinkling piano music that puts you to sleep and makes her look even slower.