2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

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I wonder if Mishin is cutting back on the students in his group because he is getting older & maybe he wants to focus his energies in the Olympic season on just the top skaters.

Or may be he is thinking of retirement and wants his youngest stars to not be affected by that.

 

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She deleted the message with "conveyor belt" later.

I think she deleted the message: the question to her implied some negative wording about Tutberidze's group. Interesting (very interesting) is that Lozko's partner will be Adjan. So much for accusations that because of Eteri he had to quit FS. Some harsh Eteri's opponents here will cool down for a while. But I don't understand. If his back is so severely injured how he is going to do the lifts? And Alisa while very slim is quite tall at 160.

Anyway, the dance pair will be very beautiful.

 

[silverfoxes]

I think she deleted the message: the question to her implied some negative wording about Tutberidze's group. Interesting (very interesting) is that Lozko's partner will be Adjan. So much for accusations that because of Eteri he had to quit FS. Some harsh Eteri's opponents here will cool down for a while. But I don't understand. If his back is so severely injured how he is going to do the lifts? And Alisa while very slim is quite tall at 160.

Anyway, the dance pair will be very beautiful.

Again you completely miss the point. He had to switch to ice dance because he cannot jump any more. There are different kinds of back injuries and perhaps the ice dance lifts do not bother him as much as the impact from jumping. He still has lost his singles career and there is no guarantee ice dance will work out for him.

Nobody should be happy that one of the most promising young Russian men will never realize his potential. Dima is the only one in his age group with a similar level of talent. It's a terrible loss. Alisa had no shortage of competition in ladies to worry about, but the situation for the men is much more bleak.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Because I'm missing figure skating and I'm at the hair salon with nothing to do, I am watching the 2015 jr world championships, junior ladies free skate. And I noticed something....

Evgenia has been doing the exact same choreography for the past 3 years!!!!

I'm serious. This is how her long programs have been going:
*Triple flip-triple toe
*Tano triple lutz
*a spin in which she raises her leg up in an almost-split position
*a backwards skid on both skates before she begins her footwork.
*more jumps, then ending with 2 spins
*and the layback spin is always the ending spin

Now, I really like evgenia. She's a competitor, focused, a beast out there, it's incredible !! And I think she's so talented that if her coaching team ever gave her a different style and choreography, she could definitely do it!

I have a bad feeling I'm going to be very disappointed when evgenia wins the Olympics with a "we've-seen-this-4-years-in-a-row" program.

 

[atsumiri]

I'm serious. This is how her long programs have been going:
*Triple flip-triple toe
*Tano triple lutz
*a spin in which she raises her leg up in an almost-split position
*a backwards skid on both skates before she begins her footwork.
*more jumps, then ending with 2 spins
*and the layback spin is always the ending spin

i'll disappoint you. Every one are doing exactly the same number of jumps and spins in SP and FS. And usually it's exactly the same jumps combinations and the same order and sometimes a little bit different spins but rarely. nothing new.

 

[Amei]

Because I'm missing figure skating and I'm at the hair salon with nothing to do, I am watching the 2015 jr world championships, junior ladies free skate. And I noticed something....

Evgenia has been doing the exact same choreography for the past 3 years!!!!

I'm serious. This is how her long programs have been going:
*Triple flip-triple toe
*Tano triple lutz
*a spin in which she raises her leg up in an almost-split position
*a backwards skid on both skates before she begins her footwork.
*more jumps, then ending with 2 spins
*and the layback spin is always the ending spin

Now, I really like evgenia. She's a competitor, focused, a beast out there, it's incredible !! And I think she's so talented that if her coaching team ever gave her a different style and choreography, she could definitely do it!

I have a bad feeling I'm going to be very disappointed when evgenia wins the Olympics with a "we've-seen-this-4-years-in-a-row" program.

The problem is that she has been winning with it for the past 3 years, I get the impression that Eteri is a believer in her formula for a championship skater wins and until it doesn't win consistently across multiple skaters she's not going to change it.

 

[mrrice]

This is the latest on Adelina:

http://fs-gossips.com/plushenko-abo...decide-about-our-plans-in-the-next-two-weeks/

Also, plushyfan posted this in her fan fest:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVSLI7HB8aJ/?taken-by=adelinasotnikova_2014&hl=en

I can't believe I'm just seeing this......2 Olympic Champions in the same rink at the same time.......Those students are so blessed to be in that academy.....I bet their parents pinch themselves every time they walk into that rink. Amazing!!!! LRK....You are the Bomb!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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The problem is that she has been winning with it for the past 3 years, I get the impression that Eteri is a believer in her formula for a championship skater wins and until it doesn't win consistently across multiple skaters she's not going to change it.

Evgenia did not have exactly the same choreo for the last 3 years. Her robot routine during her last junior season was quite unique. Her programs are exactly the same ibecause she is skating, spinning, and jumping - that the point for local critics to claim that it's all the same. Even then I am sure that this season her routine will be very different and I am sure as well that some new "argument" will turn up especially if she will keep winning everything.

 

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Again you completely miss the point. He had to switch to ice dance because he cannot jump any more. There are different kinds of back injuries and perhaps the ice dance lifts do not bother him as much as the impact from jumping. He still has lost his singles career and there is no guarantee ice dance will work out for him.

Nobody should be happy that one of the most promising young Russian men will never realize his potential. Dima is the only one in his age group with a similar level of talent. It's a terrible loss. Alisa had no shortage of competition in ladies to worry about, but the situation for the men is much more bleak.

Injuries can happen with anyone. Unless Adjan himself puts the blame for his situation on Eteri I will treat all attacks on her as jealosy because she is the best ladies coach in the world now.

 

[RemyRose]

Veronika's list of students on FSkate.ru is pretty sparse, but she has Liza's cousin, Andrei Kutovoy, who is extremely talented. I wonder if Mishin is cutting back on the students in his group because he is getting older & maybe he wants to focus his energies in the Olympic season on just the top skaters. At least I hope Liza & Petr will get to develop artistically now & not get stuck with the bad packaging & choreo that Mishin's seniors have.

Tatjana Flade spoke with Mishin in Tartu. Apparently Petr's mother was the problem (i.e. skate mom) and Liza wasn't listening anymore (her and her mother thought she is a big star). So he left them at home for disciplinary reasons.
Source (post #180) https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...russia-with-love-27-summer-2017.101295/page-6

 

[ewdokia]

I think she deleted the message: the question to her implied some negative wording about Tutberidze's group. Interesting (very interesting) is that Lozko's partner will be Adjan. So much for accusations that because of Eteri he had to quit FS. Some harsh Eteri's opponents here will cool down for a while. But I don't understand. If his back is so severely injured how he is going to do the lifts?

You really think this will cool down critics on Eteri? Wow, you are totally wrong. And one can shake head how you can take this news in favor / as defense for Eteri. There is btw enough scientific evidence that quads put pressure amounting to multiple weight of that skater on his joints, so quads indeed cause a bigger strain to the back than lifts. We still have to see if Adian’s back will hold up the lifts. He did a lot of therapy when training with Buyanova, so hopefully the injury has been cured to an extent, where ice dance is still a realistic option.

In any case this certainly wasn’t an easy decision for Adian. Do you think anyone believes he learned a quad and competed for such a long time in singles with a serious back injury to a state he cannot jump any longer, when his dream was ice dancing, where he now has to start from scratch again? Of course not and obviously the only reason for this is that his back injury does not allow quads again. This is as sad as brave from the side of Adian, making it look as nothing went wrong here and even indicating the injury is fake / exaggerated (“if he is so severely injured”) is macabre. Even more when you contradict yourself just one post later with that “injuries happen” approach - it has been discussed in depth in other threads that criticism didn’t refer to injury, but how it was managed after it occurred. But discussing it again with “believers” is needless. :noshake:

So back to Russian ladies: I’m happy for Alisa, though a bit worried that we here have a couple of two former singles and thus unexperienced ice dancers. I wish she (and Adian) could have started the ice dance career with more experienced partner(s). However, I think ice dance is a smart option for her and a good choreographer might find a way to highlight her unique spins even in dance. I wonder if dance might be an option for Elizaveta Nugumanova as well. I’m not sure if the coaching change might help her technique. If Mishin wasn’t able to solve the problem, I don’t think it will be much easier for any other coach.

Tatjana Flade spoke with Mishin in Tartu. Apparently Petr's mother was the problem (i.e. skate mom) and Liza wasn't listening anymore (her and her mother thought she is a big star). So he left them at home for disciplinary reasons.
Source (post #180) https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...russia-with-love-27-summer-2017.101295/page-6

Looks like blaming parents for failure becomes a general trend among Russian coaches. Regarding Liza I think Mishin should carefully ask himself if overhyping Liza at a very early stage in her career might have contributed to the whole situations as well. I was him who presented her as the next big thing in skating numerous times, even when her underrotation issues were already quite prominent.

 

[tars]

Adialisa?

 

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Looks like bringing up Evgenia and/or Eteri topic is the only way to "beat" the US ladies thread in terms of views: we are "leading" again.

 

[lavoix]

Is Liza Nugumanova's new coach good? Should we have high hopes? I personally really like Liza...

 

[andromache]

I have serious doubts about the ability of singles' skaters to develop the precision and skills necessary to be very successful in ice dance. In particular, sad for Adian, who had a real shot at a decent career as a senior man.

I love Liza Nugumanova, and I'm wondering what was wrong between her and Mishin. She has a real star quality and potential to be a total package, but she really does need assistance on those jumps - leaving Mishin doesn't seem ideal. If she could come to the US, I'd send her to Raf. Does anyone know anything about the new coach? I've never heard of her before.

 

[silverfoxes]

Injuries can happen with anyone. Unless Adjan himself puts the blame for his situation on Eteri I will treat all attacks on her as jealosy because she is the best ladies coach in the world now.

I used to enjoy your posts and used to have respect for you, but you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Adian. So I will treat all your posts about Eteri as blind uberspeak. The end.

What is the "jealousy" that you see here anyway? That doesn't even make sense. Jealous that she has so many other successful male skaters not named Adian?

 

[tars]

People need to realize, it's not Eteri's fault, that evil Evgenia stole her from Julia.

 

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I used to enjoy your posts and used to have respect for you, but you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Adian. So I will treat all your posts about Eteri as blind uberspeak. The end.

What is the "jealousy" that you see here anyway? That doesn't even make sense. Jealous that she has so many other successful male skaters not named Adian?

Thank you for your warm words. I understand that our views differ on Eteri. I also understand that in your particular case your attitude is driven by the concern about Pitkeev not the jealosy to Eteri whose school keeps producing the best skaters in both junior and senior ladies. There was so much negativity poured onto her in and outside Russia even before her interview. After it it just went out of any reasonable proportion.

The only people who really know what happened in Adian's case are he, Eteri, parents, and to some extent those who are near them and who can openly speak their mind rather than write anonymous nasty letters which happened 2 years ago. Every other "investigations", sorry - why don't people have other targets - all other coaches are saints and Eteri is the devil?

I don't have to be Eteri's uber to be happy seeing how her puplis win. I rewatched SL more than 100 times adding my fair share to the record breaking 6 million youtube views. I enjoyed Zhenya's performances live several times. I rewatched Alina's DQ I don't know how many times. I started to enjoy Polina when I saw how much she grew artistically. Eteri has built it whatever one names it: group, team, empire, conveyor. The result of it brings me a lot of positive emotions: joy, compassion, pride. Am I an uber neglecting negative hearsays about her? Whatever. What if she really made grave mistakes in Pitkeev's case? Are those clearly defined in the first place? Pluschenko kept competing and jumping quads with bolts inside of him. There are many other less known cases when skaters compete with severe injuries. It's about the right diagnosis first and after that about the balance between risk and ambition. Who is responsible for the right decision on that balance: just the coach or it is joint responsibility. OK, again what if she made a mistake? Will she repeat it in the future? Won't Eteri do everything to keep Medvedeva, Zagitova, and others injury free now that she is "under the microscope"? And she is under the tremendous pressure now that she is expected to deliver when everything but ladies are quite fragile in the Russian FS. Medvedeva is a teenager not a robot. Many people want her to fail. And I will keep "protecting" her and her coach.

 

[Tutto]

I have serious doubts about the ability of singles' skaters to develop the precision and skills necessary to be very successful in ice dance. In particular, sad for Adian, who had a real shot at a decent career as a senior man.

As much as I like that Adian is to continue skating rather than retiring I have some doubts too. Adian seemed to me a very introvert type of a skater, performing was not easy for him. In singles it could have been masked by the tech content, in ice dance there is nowhere to 'hide'. I remember Marina who did a choreo of one of his programs, said that her main task was 'to get Adian out of himself'... but he is very talented and with a right coaching & determination we may yet to see another side of Adian - wishing him luck in his new 'venture'

 

[linkintank]

I have serious doubts about the ability of singles' skaters to develop the precision and skills necessary to be very successful in ice dance. In particular, sad for Adian, who had a real shot at a decent career as a senior man.

I love Liza Nugumanova, and I'm wondering what was wrong between her and Mishin. She has a real star quality and potential to be a total package, but she really does need assistance on those jumps - leaving Mishin doesn't seem ideal. If she could come to the US, I'd send her to Raf. Does anyone know anything about the new coach? I've never heard of her before.

I was under the impression that most ice dancers, especially in Russia, start off as figure skaters. The idea is that they weren't able to cut it as such and needed to find someway to stay in the sport. I specifically read that Stepanova was in the same group as a child with Mikhail Kolyada but she wasn't capable of continuing in singles figure skating.

I also remember seeing a video of Adian practicing a throw jump - he was the one being thrown.