2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

[hanca]

Oh, really? Instead of whom? There is a main point not who will be there, but by which way. Fedichkina clearly was defeated by Tarusina at fourth stage. If she or Sakhanovich will go to the Nationals instead of Tarusina, that's pathetic and unfair. With kids (Trusova and Tarakanova) is another situation, but rules are rules. If Proklova and Fedichkina participated, why they can't? So it also will be unfair, if they (Sakhanovich and/or Fedichkina) will take Sasha's and Nastya's spots.

Sakhanovich will not go to nationals instead of anyone. She will go there because she earned it by having a GP event!

Arguing that a few years ago Proklova went to nationals at 13 and therefore Trusova should be allowed to go to senior nationals is not a good argument. Are you aware that Sotnikova went to the senior nationals when she was 12? Does it mean that the federation have to allow 12 years old attend now? Rules can change. What was valid before does not necessarily have to be valid now.
It is unclear whether they changed from last year or not. For the last few years the youngest age allowed at senior nationals was 14 years old, but granting those who got to JGPF exception and allowing them to participate even at 13. It is not clear whether this year they will grant this exception or not. It may be a rumour, someone spreading a panic or it may be that someone has insiders knowledge of knowing that they decided to dispose with this exception. We will see.

 

[atsumiri]

It is unclear whether they changed from last year or not. For the last few years the youngest age allowed at senior nationals was 14 years old, but granting those who got to JGPF exception and allowing them to participate even at 13.

they haven't changed since Alisa participated in 2016. Exactly the same.

 

[Lana05]

We'll see when the entries will come. If RusFed want Alisa over another girl they'll take her even with 7th place

 

[hanca]

they haven't changed since Alisa participated in 2016. Exactly the same.

Yes, but every year they were clear that the age is 14 and spoke about ‘making exception’ for JGPF competitors. So all it needs is deciding not to make exception. It doesn’t need any formal change of rules. To be honest, I don’t really mind either way. I wanted it for Serafima, now she is in (as long as she competes at the GP) so to me it is no difference. I do have a soft spot for Tarusina because of her bad luck last season, going through that awful injury, but she is the first alternate at the moment and if someone withdraws, she will be in. (Every year someone withdraws, so as long as she stays at the top of the list she should be ok). The only thing regrading the age rule - i think it is unfair that it is based on calendar year and not ISU year. So if there is a group of ladies who became junior eligible at the same season and will be senior eligible at the same year, I think they should be either all of them able to compete or none of them. Panenkova and Samodurova are older, but if they allow Kostornaya, it would be fair to allow also Trusova and Tarakanova. If they don’t allow Trusova and Tarakanova, they shouldn’t allow Kostornaya either because they will be eligible at the same season.

 

[hanca]

We'll see when the entries will come. If RusFed want Alisa over another girl they'll take her even with 7th place

You are right that the federation can do more or less whatever they want to, as long as they can justify it to themselves. But the question should be ‘do they want to see Alisa at the nationals ..’. She hasn’t been that strong this season and every year now there will be coming more and more strong skaters to seniors, so the question is whether they care enough about seeing her at the nationals.

 

[tars]

OK guys, enough.

Please provide a link to official RusNats eligibility rules - I need to read them with my own eyes.

 

[Amer]

I am not sure that Anna will make it to Russian Nationals. That would open up another spot. And the Fed can change the rules about age limits if they want, that's their prerogative, and I really don't see the point of having younger girls take up spots if they can't qualify for the senior team anyway. As Lana05 said, things were different a few years ago when the competition wasn't so strong. Someone is always going to cry unfair, but I feel like the older girls have paid their dues and deserve first priority. There is junior nationals for a reason.

All of this post :agree:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the young rising stars compete at Jr Nationals only. I think there are some advantages to keeping them separated from the seniors and having two strong circuits can be beneficial for all involved. I would welcome seeing Russia begin to slow down the pumping out talent after talent and start developing a more long term strategy.



Don’t get me wrong...I think having the best girls compete would be major

 

[russianfan]

but imagine the level of competition when like 15 girls score 190+... that would be sick

 

[Bluediamonds09]

What are you saying? I just told you after your previous the same post! Stop your ignorance right now. Uncertain is only the last spot, which will more likely be taken by Tarusina. There were stupid rumors about out of Trusova and Tarakanova because of their age (13yo), but Proklova being 13 yo participated at Russian Nationals 2014, same with Fedichkina at Russian Nationals 2016. If only they don't want to be ashamed that young kids will beat all previous leaders like Tuktamysheva, Radionova, etc. Now Sakhanovich got the GP spot, but it will be unfair for kids if she will take one of their well-deserved spots, or moreover, if it will be Tarusina's spot.

Anyway, at least 15 participants of 18 are already known. Remaining contenders won't make big difference.

WOW, u are rude! I just didn’t fully understand the way the Russians qualify for nationals. It’s very very different from how US does it.
I wanted to understand the process. and I was very impatient to find out the list so that’s why I commented in such a way.

 

[lbamda]

Before the Olympic Games in Sochi of the rule of selection have been changed. On the championship of Russia women from 14 years are allowed. Exceptions are possible, but according to the decision of Trainer's Council.

 

[tars]

Before the Olympic Games in Sochi of the rule of selection have been changed. On the championship of Russia women from 14 years are allowed. Exceptions are possible, but according to the decision of Trainer's Council.

Do you know, where I could find a document with these rules?
And do you know when Trainer's Council gathers? It's less than month till Nationals.

 

[noidont]

Honestly I don't see the point of junior skaters who can't turn senior the next season competing in senior nationals.

 

[mrrice]

Honestly I don't see the point of junior skaters who can't turn senior the next season competing in senior nationals.

I agree. I would also imagine that a Junior skater would want to compete at Junior Worlds before they move up. Adam Rippon won 2 Junior World Titles before he moved up to Seniors internationally. What's the point of knocking an eligible senior off the team for someone who can't go to Worlds or the Olympics.

 

[atsumiri]

Honestly I don't see the point of junior skaters who can't turn senior the next season competing in senior nationals.

chance and experience to compete with seniors and the best ladies.
It's a bid deal.
And these girls deserved it by going to JGPF. Boing one of the best.
Liza, Adelina, Lena, Evgenia, Polina, Alisa.... etc they all had this chance and experience. They all weren't able to turn senior the next season.
last year... Gubanova, Samodurova....

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I agree. I would also imagine that a Junior skater would want to compete at Junior Worlds before they move up. Adam Rippon won 2 Junior World Titles before he moved up to Seniors internationally. What's the point of knocking an eligible senior off the team for someone who can't go to Worlds or the Olympics.

But then my favorite, Adelina, would only be 2x National champ instead of 4x National champ!

 

[lbamda]

Do you know, where I could find a document with these rules?
And do you know when Trainer's Council gathers? It's less than month till Nationals.

http://www.fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competition_regulation1718_revised.pdf

 

[tars]

http://www.fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competition_regulation1718_revised.pdf

OK, so it says expressis verbis minimum 14yo for senior nats.
It's dated May 2017 - do you have previous years' documents? I wonder, if '14yo rule' was absent there or they made 'coaches council' exception for Fedichkina back then...

Also, it's interesting they write about ISU GP, GPF and JGP, JGPF results as deciding on Nats spots, not participation per se. Did I understand it properly?

К участию в чемпионате России - Ростелеком (п.II.6) допускаются спортсмены [...] по результатам участия в этапах и финале ИСУ Гран При среди взрослых и юниоров.

Would it mean those results need to be good enough to be accepted by 'coaches council' preparing the final list? :think:

 

[atsumiri]

It's dated May 2017 - do you have previous years' documents? I wonder, if '14yo rule' was absent there or they made 'coaches council' exception for Fedichkina back then...

2015-2016 season when Alisa participated at 13 y.o. http://www.fsrussia.ru/files/docs/archive/pologhenie_competition_1516_upd161215.pdf

 

[hanca]

It is the same as it was in Medvedeva, Sakhanovich, Sotskova, Proklova times. I remember them all becoming eligible at the same season, but Medvedeva was born before December and the other three were born after December. There was a huge discussion whether only Medvedeva will be allowed to compete at the nationals because she was 14 whereas the other three were not yet, or whether Sakhanovich, Sotskova and Proklova will be granted exception (because they qualified for JGPF). they were granted exception. And since then it was like that every year - those who qualified to JGPF had exception. But because it hasn’t been rule, it has been exception, it makes it easy for the federation to decide that from now on they won’t be granting exceptions (if it really is what they want).