2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[OS]

And to answer your question RE: Jason's FS, yes the music was composed by Maxime Rodriguez, who did the Tristan and Iseult piece Jason skated to for his FS back in the 2014-2015 season. The story is that Rodriguez came up to him and asked if he was interested in having a piece composed for him. The piece is basically based on the soundtrack for The Danish Girl, but I don't think you'll find many similarities as far as recognize melody.

I adore the FS, even more than The Piano, in fact I'd say its a step up from that. I remember thinking when I saw Jason gasp for breath at the end his skate at Lombardia like -- that looked so easy and you didn't do quads, why are you so tired?! I think what makes this program sing is that the end goal is that it is supposed to look floaty, so easy, but to do the choreography to get there requires a LOT Of effort. I'd argue that Riverdance Jason probably couldn't have done this program four years ago. Riverdance LOOKED hard with all the fast steps, this is that program's opposite, it's actually a nice way to show his growth as a skater in the last four years.

The thing is, I think The Piano piece is a tougher piece of music for a skaters to realise due to the lack of obvious instructions in the music and choreography, it demands skater work harder to discover and express through abstract/riffing monotone their 'choreographic' truth responding to the rise and falls the same motifs with greater sensitivity and nuance like breathing. It is like poetry, words need to be more carefully chosen, scarce, but recite in the right way it can be more powerful and potent than any essay. Easy to mess up and the impression is lost.

Whereas this piece is written with built-in emotions already that sound like a movie epilogue with built in momentum like a tidal wave to sum up all the emotions for you. It is great for a showcase piece curating Jason's best qualities (rather Danish girl?), his skating skills and improved musicality, body control, responsivenness, fluidity - one custom built to cushion skating movements. I don't think Jason would have delivered this as well so early in the season had he not been pushed through the Piano experience.

 

[Mrs. P]

The thing is, I think The Piano piece is a tougher piece of music for a skaters to realise due to the lack of obvious instructions in the music and choreography, it demands skater work harder to discover and express through abstract/riffing monotone their 'choreographic' truth responding to the rise and falls the same motifs with greater sensitivity and nuance like breathing. It is like poetry, words need to be more carefully chosen, scarce, but recite in the right way it can be more powerful and potent than any essay. Easy to mess up and the impression is lost.

Whereas this piece is written with built-in emotions already that sound like a movie epilogue summary with built in momentum like a tidal wave to deliver the emotions for you. It is great for a showcase piece curating Jason's best qualities (rather Danish girl?), his skating skills and improved musicality, body control, responsivenness - one custom built to cushion skating movements. I don't think Jason would have delivered this as well so early in the season had he been pushed through the Piano experience.

Well it did take two seasons (or 1.5 I guess, since he was injured) for him to really master it. So I don't disagree: I think The Piano was a challenge to interpret since it's monotone piano music. I'll have to go back and watch the earlier versions from fall 2015 and compare them to his 2017 versions at Worlds and WTT.

I think the point of The Piano program, per interviews, was for him to get "Patrick Chan skating skills" (that's something Kori said) and to really master movement. You're right this year's program is "easier" from an interpretation/performance standpoint. But I do think the program is choreographically challenging and requires a lot more physical exertion to execute, hence the exhaustion at the end. I've watched it a few times and the amount of turns. He does like a few cross overs but basically depends on turns, brackets and other transitions to get to the other side of the rink. I'd imagine it's exhausting.

I agree that his work on The Piano enabled him to do this piece well now. But I think there's still work to make this even better.

 

[noskates]

Really enjoyed reading Mrs. P's observations. One thing to remember is that Jason always starts out slow in the season but by Nationals he is superb with his choreography. He said himself that learning his choreo is very difficult and that Rohene really pushes him. I love this program and I think the only other man out there who could do justice to it other than Jason would be Patrick Chan. Having said that - I also love Patrick's Hallelujah. I know I sound like a broken record but this is the figure skating I really appreciate rather than 4 or 5 quads and a few steps in between.

 

[Mrs. P]

It's looking good for me to make the men's free skate (basically looking at Championship weekend package) at U.S. Nationals, so I'm excited to see all these men' programs in person.

I like both of Nathan's programs, but the FS is my fave. Jason's FS I adore. Max's FS looks great and Sean's is a showstopper. Adam's bird program will probably be lovely to see also. I love Tomoki's FS this year and I know that Alexei and Andrew will be amazing to watch too. And hoping to see Josh there too -- 2014 Nationals is when I became a fan of his. Yeah, it's going to be awesome (and probably heartbreaking...)

 

[musicfan80]

Nationals is going to be a bloodbath. If Nathan stays healthy I think he's got the #1 spot all wrapped up. But #2 and #3? Major kudos to Max for mastering the 4T so he can up his TES with another quad. By late in the season, Jason, even without a quad, is incredibly reliable, and gets the PCS to outscore and outplace guys with higher TES who make mistakes (see Worlds 2015 and 2017). A clean Max probably has higher scoring potential overall, but his consistency is always a question mark. Then there's Vincent, another quad wunderkind who has made nice artistic progress, and Adam. It makes me sad to say it, but I think Adam's chances of making it to the Olympics are slim, unless 2/3 of Jason/Max/Vincent bomb at Nationals.

Yes it is and I'm so happy that I'll be there to see it all unfold. If you asked me personally, even with 3 spots, I couldn't pick the team at this time. Now that we have Vincent in the Multi-Quad club, it makes things much more difficult. Nathan, Max, and Vincent have the highest tech potential. However, Jason is a judges dream and so is Adam Rippon. We still have skaters like Ross, Timothy, Joshua Farris and that cute dude from Minnesota who's name I can never remember. I still don't know what's going on with Ricky D. and Jeremy Abbott. It's still too soon to make a prediction. BTW, Alex Johnson is the cute guy from Minnesota.

It's looking good for me to make the men's free skate (basically looking at Championship weekend package) at U.S. Nationals, so I'm excited to see all these men' programs in person.

I like both of Nathan's programs, but the FS is my fave. Jason's FS I adore. Max's FS looks great and Sean's is a showstopper. Adam's bird program will probably be lovely to see also. I love Tomoki's FS this year and I know that Alexei and Andrew will be amazing to watch too. And hoping to see Josh there too -- 2014 Nationals is when I became a fan of his. Yeah, it's going to be awesome (and probably heartbreaking...)

This is my 8th Olympic season as a figure skating fan and the only thing I know is that regardless of the discipline, I've given up on trying to predict who is going to make the U.S. Olympic team. I think I've seen just about every shocking, heartbreaking, surprising, amazing, and even dumbfounded result possible. I will also say that I'm seriously considering taking the Monday after U.S. Nationals off to recover.

Hopefully everyone will stay healthy and have a season they can all be proud of. I don't think that Ricky Dornbush is competing anymore and attending graduate school, correct? At this point, I will be thrilled if Joshua actually competes this season. Although, if he knew that he couldn't compete at NHK Trophy, I would think that he would be withdrawing fairly soon.

 

[hippomoomin]

And to answer your question RE: Jason's FS, yes the music was composed by Maxime Rodriguez, who did the Tristan and Iseult piece Jason skated to for his FS back in the 2014-2015 season. The story is that Rodriguez came up to him and asked if he was interested in having a piece composed for him. The piece is basically based on the soundtrack for The Danish Girl, but I don't think you'll find many similarities as far as recognize melody.

Is there any place that we can purchase and download Jason's FS music? It is really my type of music and I'd love to have it on my playlist. I did a google search and there is no result to match

 

[Mrs. P]

Is there any place that we can purchase and download Jason's FS music? It is really my type of music and I'd love to have it on my playlist. I did a google search and there is no result to match

I don't think so, but there are YouTube to MP3 converters online....

 

[hippomoomin]

Thought about that but there is also sound from the venue with the music.

I don't think so, but there are YouTube to MP3 converters online....

 

[mrrice]

Who is Camden Pulkinen? I just saw that he won the JGP event in Austria and he won it quite handily. He skates with Tom Z. but I've never heard of him. Do Juniors have fan pages?

 

[Mrs. P]

Thought about that but there is also sound from the venue with the music.

That's a good point....although it seem they minimized the venue sound on the video FWIW....I think the music was plugged directly to the video feed as opposing the arena noise.

I went ahead and converted and edited. The audio quality isn't CD quality, but it's serviceable for casual listening.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmp2ifqr0bnmsmi/Inner Love.mp3?dl=0

(And if you or someone you knew had the ability, you probably could fiddle with the audio to make it even more listenable).

 

[el henry]

Who is Camden Pulkinen? I just saw that he won the JGP event in Austria and he won it quite handily. He's skates with Tom K. but I've never heard of him. Do Juniors have fan pages?

Unfortunately, many juniors don't get the love unless you go looking for them. Most of the discussion seems to be in the JGP threads, although some of the posters there are not happy with the men's event; if you ask me, I think there are more than a few sour grapes because the usual suspects aren't winning (and Camden Pulikinen was not expected to win). I never heard of him until I saw him at a summer comp, and was impressed by his "smoothness". Could've done without Coldplay, outside of the Shibs, not my favorite tune.

Camden, Alex K., Tomoki, and of course my beloved Andrew T. : the US does not lack for watchable juniors. They will all skate senior at Nats, I think, but I also like Maxim Naumov, who is in his first junior year? He has style too.:agree:

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Who is Camden Pulkinen? I just saw that he won the JGP event in Austria and he won it quite handily. He's skates with Tom K. but I've never heard of him. Do Juniors have fan pages?

Camden is awesome! Here is an interview that was done with him back in February https://medium.com/@JacksonUltima/jacksonfamily-interviews-ft-camden-pulkinen-7a8efda2e583

 

[Ice Dance]

Who is Camden Pulkinen? I just saw that he won the JGP event in Austria and he won it quite handily. He's skates with Tom K. but I've never heard of him. Do Juniors have fan pages?

Camden finished second in juniors at U.S. Nationals behind Krasnozhon last year and actually bested Krasnozhon in the SP, which was quite a shock because Camden only finished 11th the year previously. He did represent the U.S. at the 2016 Youth Olympics two seasons ago, where he finished 7th. But I would say he's come much more into his own since then, solidifying a triple axel--his hardest jump thus far--and improving by leaps & bounds as a performer.

 

[ice coverage]

Who is Camden Pulkinen? I just saw that he won the JGP event in Austria and he won it quite handily. He skates with Tom Z. but I've never heard of him. Do Juniors have fan pages?

mrrice, you were among those discussing Camden in the 2017 Nats Junior Men's FS thread.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...unior-Men-FS&p=1607056&viewfull=1#post1607056​

I remember b/c I posted a throwback photo for you of Camden and Max Aaron together back at their home rink in Arizona, and you replied to my post.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...unior-Men-FS&p=1607377&viewfull=1#post1607377​

BTW, Camden's older sister Elena is a singles skater who has competed in Senior Ladies at U.S. Nats.
I have read at least one or two articles about the Pulkinens as siblings who are elite skaters.

Elena now is a student at UCLA.
At literally the very same hour that Camden was competing at the Philadelphia International in Aug, Elena was competing at Collegiates.

---

...Ricky D was actually in the Kiss n Cry with Brendan at Lombardia, in a quasi coach role - Tammy was with Karen at SLC. That suggests that Ricky won't compete this year, but it's not conclusive.

.... I don't think that Ricky Dornbush is competing anymore and attending graduate school, correct? ....

Minor thoughts:

Agree that we should not expect Dornbush to compete this season.
In addition to being at Lombardia with Brendan, Dornbush apparently is assisting on the Gambill coaching team with other skaters as well.
Just a guess, but perhaps we will see Dornbush with some of her skaters at Regionals and Sectionals?
(Heard thru the grapevine that he is not yet in grad school?? But I don't have an on-the-record source.)

Because this thread is for U.S. men, will mention that Tammy was in SLC also to be with Sean. (As well as with Karen.)
And with Yaro of the Ukraine (who placed fourth).
And I think(?) with three U.S. junior singles skaters for Challenge Skate (one man, two ladies).
(I don't know about novice.)​

 

[andromache]

Thought about that but there is also sound from the venue with the music.

I think Lombardia filtered out all the arena sounds during the program (which had a very negative impact on me as a viewer - did NOT enjoy that at all - but it's perfect for you!)

 

[NoNameFace]

Really enjoyed reading Mrs. P's observations. One thing to remember is that Jason always starts out slow in the season but by Nationals he is superb with his choreography. He said himself that learning his choreo is very difficult and that Rohene really pushes him. I love this program and I think the only other man out there who could do justice to it other than Jason would be Patrick Chan. Having said that - I also love Patrick's Hallelujah. I know I sound like a broken record but this is the figure skating I really appreciate rather than 4 or 5 quads and a few steps in between.

joining an appreciation bandwagon of Mrs. P

seeing quite a few US Men over the past weekend in competition really cemented my enthusiasm for the whole field - with or without a quad. Why? Because I'm a fan of this very individual aura and approach about every US Men, they are all talented, but for me there's always that distinction and defined line between their aesthetics, way of movement and presentation. Seeing the variety of music/programs, it's like all of them are able to speak to my artistic sensibility in some way, and I just love it. And about your last sentence on quads - addressing it to US Men specifically I feel that there is a very rich 'substance' in the field aside of quads: the most important 'ingredient' of that 'substance' for me is definitely character, personality and care put by all of them about performance. I was really impressed and happy about that during the last weekend.

To add one more thought to my post, I just plain love to see each US Man's signature shining through every skate I saw. I could not pay much attention to their jumps being successful or if they had or had no quad, but the first thing I see is how different they are from each other, with individual style developed, more or less.

 

[mrrice]

mrrice, you were among those discussing Camden in the 2017 Nats Junior Men's FS thread.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...unior-Men-FS&p=1607056&viewfull=1#post1607056​

I remember b/c I posted a throwback photo for you of Camden and Max Aaron together back at their home rink in Arizona, and you replied to my post.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...unior-Men-FS&p=1607377&viewfull=1#post1607377​

BTW, Camden's older sister Elena is a singles skater who has competed in Senior Ladies at U.S. Nats.
I have read at least one or two articles about the Pulkinens as siblings who are elite skaters.

Elena now is a student at UCLA.
At literally the very same hour that Camden was competing at the Philadelphia International in Aug, Elena was competing at Collegiates.

---

Minor thoughts:

Agree that we should not expect Dornbush to compete this season.
In addition to being with Brendan at Lombardia, Dornbush apparently is assisting on the Gambill coaching team with other skaters as well.
Just a guess, but perhaps we will see Dornbush with some of her skaters at Regionals and Sectionals?
(Heard thru the grapevine that he is not yet in grad school?? But I don't have an on-the-record source.)

Because this thread is for U.S. men, will mention that Tammy was in SLC also to be with Sean. (As well as with Karen.)
And with Yaro of the Ukraine (who placed fourth).
And I think(?) with three U.S. junior singles skaters for Challenge Skate (one man, two ladies).​

NOW I remember him.....Thanks Ice Coverage.....Well, I still really like him and it looks like the future of the US Men is in very good hands.

 

[bevybean]

Have there been any updates on Josh Ferris? Last I heard he withdrew from a summer comp due, but it was clear why (injury or sickness or other).

 

[mrrice]

Have there been any updates on Josh Ferris? Last I heard he withdrew from a summer comp due, but it was clear why (injury or sickness or other).

I don't remember exactly but, I think he was sick. He seems so fragile but he's a dream to watch when he's on. I followed him quite closely when he was a Junior and he is really gifted. His blend of technical and artistic qualities are what set him apart back then. He's a skater that could upset any top skater when he's on. So many of the US Men have quads now that his artistry could push him over the top at Nationals. He really needs to wait until he's 100% healthy because another injury at this point would probably put him back in retirement. Hoping for the best...

 

[skylark]

seeing quite a few US Men over the past weekend in competition really cemented my enthusiasm for the whole field - with or without a quad. Why? Because I'm a fan of this very individual aura and approach about every US Men, they are all talented, but for me there's always that distinction and defined line between their aesthetics, way of movement and presentation. Seeing the variety of music/programs, it's like all of them are able to speak to my artistic sensibility in some way, and I just love it. And about your last sentence on quads - addressing it to US Men specifically I feel that there is a very rich 'substance' in the field aside of quads: the most important 'ingredient' of that 'substance' for me is definitely character, personality and care put by all of them about performance. I was really impressed and happy about that during the last weekend.

:agree: Including Nathan.:luv17: His SP, choreographed by Shae-Lynne, expresses his fun, contemporary personality on ice. He's like no one else. And then his FS, choreographed by Lori Nichol (three cheers for creative Canadian choreographers ) expresses Nathan's serious side and his artistic intentions and care.