- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
The frustrating thing is, we know they can both do them in practice.
2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
The frustrating thing is, we know they can both do them in practice.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for compiling all these interesting data.
Just updated the spreadsheet.
But first this:
Nathan Chen: 293.79
Adam Rippon: 261.99
Max Aaron: 261.56
Jason Brown: 261.14
Vincent Zhou: 256.66
The tl:dr of this weekend: Adam Rippon has pushed himself into contention (congrats and happy birthday, btw), Jason Brown has lost major stock due a uncharteristicalky nervy competition for him . Adam beating Jason here was huge, this was the first time Adam has beaten Jason in head-to-head competition since 2013 Skate America.
Adam continues to force people to not put him out of the conversation. The 4Z was an admirable attempt, even if <. It's been impressive to see his consistency improve year-to-year.
I can see, and understandably so, people writing Jason off based on this competition (and it's already happening). He didn't do a single clean 3A and fell on two of them and there wasn't a single quad attempt. However, Jason tends to comeback from difficult competitions and peak at the right time. If he doesn't end up in GPF, I'd like to see him at Golden Spin and perhaps show that NHK was a one-off.
The drama of who will end up with an Olympic spot remains.
One thing I've been doing is ranking the men on season's best and average Overall, SP, FS and then TES/PCS on each of those categories and then averaging those rankings. Here's what I have
Season's best ranking
Nathan Chen 1.29 - Obviously No. 1 in all categories but PCS
Jason Brown 2.86 - No. 1 in PCS, but some low scores in TES
Max Aaron and Adam Rippon - 3.57 (Max has higher TES scores, Adam has higher PCS scores)
Vincent Zhou - 5.71 (Lowest PCS out of the group but strong TES)
Average score ranking
Nathan Chen 1.43
Max Aaron 3.14
Jason Brown 3.71
Adam Rippon 4.00
Vincent Zhou 5.43
Next up: Max Aaron and Vincent Zhou at Internationaux de France.
But first this:
Nathan Chen: 293.79
Adam Rippon: 261.99
Max Aaron: 261.56
Jason Brown: 261.14
Vincent Zhou: 256.66
The tl:dr of this weekend: Adam Rippon has pushed himself into contention (congrats and happy birthday, btw), Jason Brown has lost major stock due a uncharteristicalky nervy competition for him . Adam beating Jason here was huge, this was the first time Adam has beaten Jason in head-to-head competition since 2013 Skate America.
Adam continues to force people to not put him out of the conversation. The 4Z was an admirable attempt, even if <. It's been impressive to see his consistency improve year-to-year.
I can see, and understandably so, people writing Jason off based on this competition (and it's already happening). He didn't do a single clean 3A and fell on two of them and there wasn't a single quad attempt. However, Jason tends to comeback from difficult competitions and peak at the right time. If he doesn't end up in GPF, I'd like to see him at Golden Spin and perhaps show that NHK was a one-off.
The drama of who will end up with an Olympic spot remains.
One thing I've been doing is ranking the men on season's best and average Overall, SP, FS and then TES/PCS on each of those categories and then averaging those rankings. Here's what I have
Season's best ranking
Nathan Chen 1.29 - Obviously No. 1 in all categories but PCS
Jason Brown 2.86 - No. 1 in PCS, but some low scores in TES
Max Aaron and Adam Rippon - 3.57 (Max has higher TES scores, Adam has higher PCS scores)
Vincent Zhou - 5.71 (Lowest PCS out of the group but strong TES)
Average score ranking
Nathan Chen 1.43
Max Aaron 3.14
Jason Brown 3.71
Adam Rippon 4.00
Vincent Zhou 5.43
Next up: Max Aaron and Vincent Zhou at Internationaux de France.
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- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
I think this all comes down to what the USF values. If they value scores and performance, they'll consider sending an Adam or Max. But neither of them are likely to pull in the top 10 even with a clean skate. If they value potential, then it's Vincent or Jason who in principle could crack the top 10.
Max and Adam have both been in the top 10 at Worlds (and Adam finished top 6 at 2016 Worlds). And currently on the Season's Best list, Adam, Max and Jason are 8th, 9th and 10th. Vincent is 11th.
I think it will come down to Nationals. Other than Nathan, I don't think body of work will apply much in this case.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Another week on the GP with more unanswered questions about US men.
Next week should bring more clarity. Please, please, please...
I think you're right. Max and Nathan must surely be aware of the stakes as they perform in France.
If Max and/or Adam make the GP podium again, I think that definitely will be considered. Especially if one actually makes the final. These last two events will say a lot.
I think it will be considered, but I don't think it will be an override if either of them finish off the top 3 at Nationals. I think the only scenario where I see body of work being considered more is if Max and/or Adam medal at GPF.
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- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
This is a reasonable statement.
I've always felt US Nats alone should decide. End of Story. But I think the chances of that happening are rising.
If you concede that Nathan is in, then that means four skaters are fighting for two spots, barring some unforeseen blaze of talent rising up.
They've all had good moments and bad moments so far this season, and I think US Nats breaks all ties.
Edit: and while I'm still waiting for things to become more clear - my predictions for now remain the same. Nathan, Vincent, Max.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
Can we all take a second to give a shout out to Adam Rippon. So many people were throwing him under the bus yesterday and saying that he had no chance against Jason. Myself and a few others mentioned that the strength of his free program could make the difference and that's exactly what happened. He placed second in the free program and moved up from 4th to take the silver medal at the NHK and I couldn't be prouder!!!!!! 
This has been a surprise event even before it began with Chan and later also Hanyu withdrawing. Pleasant surprises were Voronov and Bychenko winning a medal and especially Voronov winning the event! I felt so happy for them both!!! It was also nice to have Rippon on the podium and winning a silver medal. Rippon´s next event will be Skate America where he meets Voronov again and there the podium finish will be more difficult for both than here, I think.
Sorry wrong forum, LOL!
Sorry wrong forum, LOL!
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
Can we all take a second to give a shout out to Adam Rippon. So many people were throwing him under the bus yesterday and saying that he had no chance against Jason. Myself and a few others mentioned that the strength of his free program could make the difference and that's exactly what happened. He placed second in the free program and moved up from 4th to take the silver medal at the NHK and I couldn't be prouder!!!!!!
Absolutely! Adam has bumped Jason off my dream Oly team
sad21 -- that was great. Enjoyed watching his NHK FS with Tara and Johnny's commentary, actually -- they were so complimentary of Adam, and rightfully so, of course.So now go Max, Nathan, and Adam for PyeongChang!
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
This is a good comment. You could tell that he was going for 3 rotations and ended up doubling the jump. As other's have said, doing a loop keeps him from Zayaking should he double a planned 3toe later in the program. I hope that made sense.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Can we all take a second to give a shout out to Adam Rippon. So many people were throwing him under the bus yesterday and saying that he had no chance against Jason. Myself and a few others mentioned that the strength of his free program could make the difference and that's exactly what happened. He placed second in the free program and moved up from 4th to take the silver medal at the NHK and I couldn't be prouder!!!!!!
Absolutely. Adam's FS was magical and magnificent. In the moment, it made me breathless. It was a slow burn and a slow pleasure, majestic and unhurried and a pluperfect interpretation of the music. Poetry on ice.
On the technical side, when he did the 4lutz, it was so smooth, so fast, and so gorgeous that it took me a few seconds to take it in. He made it look so easy I questioned whether it was a triple. Yes, it was UR, but so incredibly beautiful and a huge improvement from his earlier efforts.
I recommend watching the B.Esp. video for their commentary, but also if you have time and inclination, watching the program without commentary. It's one of those. On CBC, Kurt said the music was like the soundtrack to Adam's skating.
Congratulations Adam, on your silver medal!
B.Esp broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtABNJud0k
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
At this point I wouldn't write anyone off. Not Adam, not Jason, not Vincent, not Max. It's anyone's game and the important thing is to peak at the right time. I don't think we'll know anything till Nationals (besides Nathan, barring disaster).
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
The slo-mo replays on this video are particularly damning. Not sure how the panel justified only a <. It's a clear forward landing. He should consider himself lucky he wasn't at Skate Canada.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
The B.esp. experts who provided commentary today (yesterday?) disagree with you. They took a close look, thought at first he landed forward, then concluded that it was a quarter turn, so UR. I assume you didn't have it on mute.
I remembered what Blades of Passion has said about paying better attention to the direction of the take-off, and relating that to where the jump is landed, not just how the skate looks on landing. So there's that. But I won't argue it with you further. I'm going with the experts I heard who saw a UR only.
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