2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[ancientpeas]

Adam and Tyler Oakley-10 minute video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJFk9dPdxO0&feature=youtu.be

Just a warning.. there is some nsfw language in this.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Awesome - that is just what I was hoping for! Of course, now I'm nervous... Here's hoping they both skate programs they can be proud of!

Btw meant to tell you I love your avatar and your caption! :thumbsup:

 

[mrrice]

Speaking of Adam. Here's a new story about him and his refusal to meet with Mike Pence. Can you honestly blame him when we know that Pence thinks being gay is a sin. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wi...t-pence/ar-BBINIk1?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 

[el henry]

Speaking of Adam. Here's a new story about him and his refusal to meet with Mike Pence. Can you honestly blame him when we know that Pence thinks being gay is a sin. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wi...t-pence/ar-BBINIk1?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Even showed up on my Facebook trending. Good for Adam; shows the world that there is more than one US men's figure skater at the Olys

And although Raf told Phil Hersh that Nathan, Adam and Raf decided that Nathan would do the SP and Adam the LP at the team event, Jackie Wong is reminding everyone on Twitter that the official list is published at Feb. 8 at 8 am, PyeongChang time.

I say this in all sincerity and not snark, I am wondering if Raf is on the selection committee for the team, or if the selection committee delegated him with making the decision, and he wanted to let folks know ahead of time for strategic reasons, or whatever reason he "announced" early. And this question has nothing to do with who would be the reasonable choices, or who is the obvious choice, or what "everybody knows" or "what people in the know know" or "what people in Korea know". That part is why we have skating boards

 

[frida80]

You want the truth? I think this was decided long before now.

 

[mrrice]

Adam and Tyler Oakley-10 minute video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJFk9dPdxO0&feature=youtu.be

Just a warning.. there is some nsfw language in this.

That was hilarious!!! Thanks for posting.

 

[el henry]

You want the truth? I think this was decided long before now.

I would like to know who is on the Committee, if Raf is on the Committee, if he was delegated this power from the Committee, or if he *is* the Committee. I'm just curious that way.

I don't doubt they may have decided before now. But I don't know that this is the truth until officially named. After all, lots of folks tried to tell me that the "truth" was no way the Eagles could beat the Patriots.

 

[ice coverage]

... And although Raf told Phil Hersh that Nathan, Adam and Raf decided that Nathan would do the SP and Adam the LP at the team event, Jackie Wong is reminding everyone on Twitter that the official list is published at Feb. 8 at 8 am, PyeongChang time.

I say this in all sincerity and not snark, I am wondering if Raf is on the selection committee for the team, or if the selection committee delegated him with making the decision, and he wanted to let folks know ahead of time for strategic reasons, or whatever reason he "announced" early. ...

I would like to know who is on the Committee, if Raf is on the Committee, if he was delegated this power from the Committee, or if he *is* the Committee. I'm just curious that way. ...

Sincere non-snarky reply:

Per the NBC article re how USFS determines it entries for the team event:

Then, a ranking is created within each discipline of each of the three individual skaters and dance couples, using the criteria for Olympic team selection earlier this month. ...

Using those rankings, which U.S. Figure Skating does not make public, skaters pick the team event short and long programs, with input from team officials. ...

Will Nathan Chen choose to skate both programs or to rest up for the men’s competition the following week? If Chen doesn’t skate both, who is the second-ranked man – U.S. silver medalist Vincent Zhou in his first senior international season or fourth-place Adam Rippon, a veteran?

www.nbcolympics.com/news/how-us-figure-skating-team-chosen-olympic-team-event (Feb 1)​

With all due respect to Vincent , a plausible (IMO) scenario would be that USFS decided that Adam outranked Vincent.

So then according to the procedure explained by NBC, Nathan would have made his pick. And then Adam would have made his pick.

Also plausible (IMO) that before making his pick, Nathan would have wanted to get input from his coach (Raf). Raf said that he did not state his own preference until after hearing Nathan's preference -- and Adam's preference.
And according to Raf, it so happened that all three were in agreement.

All very plausible, IMO. And all would be in accordance with the procedure explained by NBC.

(What would Nathan have stated to USFS as his pick if Nathan had not agreed with Raf? I am not going to speculate about that.)​

 

[el henry]

^^^^
Thank you; all plausible scenarios, I agree, and all what we won't know (including the ye olde "input from team officials") unless made public.

And I should make clear, I have zero expectation that the exact process will be, nor do I think team strategy and decisions should be, made public. Just curious as to what was actually known.

 

[mrrice]

Here's a question I feel like I should know the answer to but, I don't. If Adam rotates and falls on a quad Lutz, will he get as many points as a rotated triple Lutz? If not, why does he continue to risk the fall or the almost certain under rotation?

 

[ice coverage]

^^^^
Thank you; all plausible scenarios, I agree, and all what we won't know (including the ye olde "input from team officials") unless made public.

And I should make clear, I have zero expectation that the exact process will be, nor do I think team strategy and decisions should be, made public. Just curious as to what was actually known.

Agree that how exactly the decision-making process unfolded most likely never will be made public. (And I agree that there is nothing to be gained by making it public.)

Agree also that "input from team officials" is a phrase that sheds little light ... except that USFS at least theoretically can use its discretion.

If -- hypothetically -- Nathan had stated to USFS that he picked zero participation in the team event, would "input from team officials" have meant overriding Nathan? Maybe so, maybe not?
Similar we'll-never-know situation if Nathan had picked skating both programs in the team event.

After Nathan told USFS that he picked the SP and only the SP, did "input from team officials" mean that USFS with that specific knowledge was fine with rubber-stamping his pick of the SP and only the SP?
Plausible, IMO ... but I can't say that I "know" for sure.

 

[shiroKJ]

Here's a question I feel like I should know the answer to but, I don't. If Adam rotates and falls on a quad Lutz, will he get as many points as a rotated triple Lutz? If not, why does he continue to risk the fall or the almost certain under rotation?

If its fully rotated, yes its worth more than a clean 3Lz even with the -3 GOE and -1 fall deduction. That's a pretty big "if" for Adam though.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If its fully rotated, yes its worth more than a clean 3Lz even with the -3 GOE and -1 fall deduction. That's a pretty big "if" for Adam though.

It's worth noting that if Adam does an underrotated quad, the base value is still 9.5 (from 13.6), which is almost the value of a fully rotated 4T (10.3). So he's banking on at least getting the rotation to <. If he still stays on his feet, he gets the value of a triple lutz (at Worlds 2016 he got 7.96 points on it). And if he falls on a 4Z< it's the equivalent of him getting to do an extra triple axel with a fall (both scenarios are 4.5 points with a fall + deduction)... which is certainly better than Rippon replacing the 4Z with a double axel. Of course, if he falls on a completely rotated 4Z, it's as though he did a normal 3A with 0 GOE.

It's a gamble, but a calculated one. I understand people complain that he keeps going for it when he is unlikely to do it, but on paper it kinda makes sense for him to do it (unless he gets a <<).

 

[Alifyre]

Here's a question I feel like I should know the answer to but, I don't. If Adam rotates and falls on a quad Lutz, will he get as many points as a rotated triple Lutz? If not, why does he continue to risk the fall or the almost certain under rotation?

I'm pretty sure per Jackie Wong's reports that Adam is taking the 4Lz out anyways, so no need to worry about that!

 

[frida80]

Here's a question I feel like I should know the answer to but, I don't. If Adam rotates and falls on a quad Lutz, will he get as many points as a rotated triple Lutz? If not, why does he continue to risk the fall or the almost certain under rotation?

Actually, he's decided to take out his 4Lz and replace it with a 2A.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Actually, he's decided to take out his 4Lz and replace it with a 2A.

Well, if he's downgrading it, it's smarter to go with a clean skate, rather than one marred by a fall.

Perhaps for Adam his objective is to go to the Olympics to do clean skates that please the crowd rather than chock his programs full of quads to win, but risk a hot mess.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Perhaps for Adam his objective is to go to the Olympics to do clean skates that please the crowd rather than chock his programs full of quads to win, but risk a hot mess.

He's usually good at holding it together when he misses the 4Lz, but he was never going to land enough quads to compete for the podium.

 

[Tavi...]

According to Jackie, Adam is replacing the 4Z with a 2A (3.3) AND upgrading his 3F3L to 3Z3L (+.07)= total 4.0.

Since a 4Z < with a fall is 4.5, he’s only sacrificing 0.5 in BV, which he will likely more than make up for in +GOE.

As to Raf, the only thing I’m a bit surprised about is that he revealed the substitution publicly. The whole point of the secrecy is to keep your opponents guessing as to strategy. We now no longer have that advantage.

 

[mrrice]

Men's short program is scheduled for tomorrow night? That's what my local station is saying. Is that what you guys have as well?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Men's short program is scheduled for tomorrow night? That's what my local station is saying. Is that what you guys have as well?

Correct, the Men's Team Event begins at 8 PM Eastern in the US, but I can't find what time any of the individual competitors perform.