2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance

[WeakAnkles]

I'm getting very tired of this generalization. More importantly, the dancers need to move like it's Latin dance. I've seen a whole lot of teams trying to generate heat this season, and frankly they are generally just blending together. It typically just comes off looking false. (Go Anna & Luca! I have faith). But this is not the only way to perform a Latin program. S&B have a youthful, entertaining style. Which is better for them. While I agree that the program lost it's grip on me after the first section, at least I remember the first section which is more than I can say for most of the teams we have seen thus far. I agree that something must be done to improve the middle section, but I don't care if they generate heat. Entertain us! It's something they do very well. I think there's potential here.

Alright, in some respects I'll say I generalized too much. Some Latin dances are more pure fun fun fun (samba or cha-cha-cha anyone?). But this is the rhumba, and that specific section at least is all about slow sensuality. So yes, I stand by my fanning comment. The rest can be cha-cha-chatstic or mambolicious, but a classic samba is all about the sway of hips and the glide. This being a PG At Best Rated Forum, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Barb]

Alright, in some respects I'll say I generalized too much. Some Latin dances are more pure fun fun fun (samba or cha-cha-cha anyone?). But this is the rhumba, and that specific section at least is all about slow sensuality. So yes, I stand by my fanning comment. The rest can be cha-cha-chatstic or mambolicious, but a classic samba is all about the sway of hips and the glide. This being a PG At Best Rated Forum, I'll leave it at that.

The pattern is everything, except sensual, plus the ISU allow this season that THAT pattern be danced with any latin rhythm, not necessarily rhumba.
I see many people still complain about latin dance is not for ice, but the reality is that skaters are simply lazy, it is pretty obvious that they don´t take serious classess of latin rhythms, it is not ballet, latin rhythms are not so difficult, you see many amateour people dancing in youtube a lot better than them. And this is more evident when you see the music that they chose, they do not take on the task of researching about music, they again choose the same pieces over and over again. That is lazy, no other word. If there is at least one person who can do it, so it is not impossible. I have seen several couples doing well S/D, P/M, M/R, W/P.

 

[Ice Dance]

M/R

OK, I know I will feel like an idiot later. But who are M&R?

 

[gmyers]

I think 1 quadrennial should be enough to progress but I don't see any from them and have become stagnant, Stepanova is at her max I think
and height is not an issue. Konkina who is the same build as Stepanova can bend her legs and skate fast !! its a technique issue

see Konkina's knee bends, https://youtu.be/G5EDpp0w5yA?t=257

I said many times if Bukin wants any success in ice dance he must change partners! The knee bend issue from Stepanova has completely destroyed the teams potential. She's not going to fix it in Russia. Only maybe if they switched to dubreil or Fusar poli mit it be addressed. Being in Russia where they still believe only one partner needs to have talent it's not going to change.

 

[Barb]

OK, I know I will feel like an idiot later. But who are M&R?

Muramoto and Reed

 

[bramweld]

My thoughts on I/S. I know I may be biased but, IMHO, the team that brought the latin was I/S albeit that they are new, E/B deserve honorable mention, as for B/S, I just can't..... Also their music choice and the layout of the elements was well thought out. I just can't understand how Zhulin decided to link ALL the footwork together. As for their FD I'll reserve comment until they do more work. But for the length of time that they've been together, their federation should be satisfied and interested in their development.

 

[bramweld]

The pattern is everything, except sensual, plus the ISU allow this season that THAT pattern be danced with any latin rhythm, not necessarily rhumba.
I see many people still complain about latin dance is not for ice, but the reality is that skaters are simply lazy, it is pretty obvious that they don´t take serious classess of latin rhythms, it is not ballet, latin rhythms are not so difficult, you see many amateour people dancing in youtube a lot better than them. And this is more evident when you see the music that they chose, they do not take on the task of researching about music, they again choose the same pieces over and over again. That is lazy, no other word. If there is at least one person who can do it, so it is not impossible. I have seen several couples doing well S/D, P/M, M/R, W/P.

TBH, the tempo of the pattern dance, as well as the emphasised key points make it almost impossible to skate it authentically as a Rhumba, unless of course you are V/M, well then more power to you. A smart team will therefore use one of the more upbeat tempos to skate the pattern dance. They can use the rhumba tempo for the steps in hold or even the ntstsq. The issue with most of these S/D's is not discerning a latin flavor for any of the elements. Or as is most often the case some will be good at the rhumba and others the samba, or cha, cha cha. But we're really looking at these teams in a vacuum we haven't even seen what the others are going to bring. I must say I would love to see me some Andrew Poje as soon as possible, now there is a man that gets latin. Latin is all about peacocking , don't they watch dance sport, I mean just go look at Poje and Moir you're set. :luv17:

 

[Ice Dance]

Some of the top teams will bring that style of a Latin program and make it work.

But not everyone will agree on who does. I've been watching Virtue & Moir for a decade, and never seen the chemistry there. It's not going to change now. It works for other people, which is fortunate for them as it also works for the judges. And, in general, their SDs do work better for me than their FDs so I expect to prefer their SD out of their two programs.

Weaver & Poje, on the other hand, have always struck me as having great chemistry. I have no memory of their 2012 SD, but I do expect to like their SD. Quite often I find myself surprised, though, when I predict whose style will click well with a short dance. I expected to like Papadakis & Cizeron's blues. I didn't. I didn't expect to like P&C's swing. I did. I wasn't expecting a great waltz out of W&P, but their second version was great.

You never know.

But there is more than one style of Latin dance that really works for me. Grishuk & Platov and Belbin & Agosto were both able to work Latin. The first had a sexual chemistry with a sense of humor that sold it. The second had a vivacious sense of fun. Torvill & Dean had a wonderful rhumba with her cheeky, over the top interpretation against his straight-man character. You never know who will really bring it. 100% commitment, but not a stereotype.

To me, it isn't too hard to see that it takes more than sexual heat to make many Latin programs work.

 

[Kittosuni]

So my friend edited the FD video of Loboda/Drozd in Lombodia and removed all the voice overs and guess what, it turned out pretty good and miles better. It totally change how they look. Without those weird voices, they appeared cleaner and even faster. Now it looks like a different program! Those voice overs really ruined it for them. A little tweaking in their music can do wonders with this team!

 

[nimi]

So my friend edited the FD video of Loboda/Drozd in Lombodia and removed all the voice overs and guess what, it turned out pretty good and miles better.

I don't doubt that! In the history of ice dance, are there any programs using voice overs that wouldn't have benefited from removing said voice overs? I seriously doubt it.

Any chance of the edited video ending up on Youtube...?

 

[Kittosuni]

I don't doubt that! In the history of ice dance, are there any programs using voice overs that wouldn't have benefited from removing said voice overs? I seriously doubt it.

Any chance of the edited video ending up on Youtube...?

Yes i already asked him to upload it. He emailed Drozd the file since you can reach him im his instagram to his email

 

[nimi]

Yes i already asked him to upload it.

Yay!

 

[gmyers]

This is why Russia desperately needs at least North American overseers of all its skaters programs!

 

[bramweld]

IMHO, the music is the least of their problems. Russia just needs to get back to basics. They seem to pack their programs with tricks to compensate for that lack of finesse. They have the speed and ice coverage, but I long for that team that can add to that.

 

[gmyers]

IMHO, the music is the least of their problems. Russia just needs to get back to basics. They seem to pack their programs with tricks to compensate for that lack of finesse. They have the speed and ice coverage, but I long for that team that can add to that.

It would be nice if they were ijs tricks but they are mostly 6.0 tricks and gimmicks. It's why tricks they come Up With can be level a one. It's so important to go to to the isu manuals for ijs where they can learn how to get level 4 elements. You know because of precedent that they go to 6.0 programs and people for inspiration and elements. It's like they say let's do a nEw twizzle and it gets level one.

 

[WeakAnkles]

As far as L/D's Chicago free dance, I am currently referring to it in my head as "The HORROR...!!!! The HORROR!!!"

 

[Barb]

It would be nice if they were ijs tricks but they are mostly 6.0 tricks and gimmicks. It's why tricks they come Up With can be level a one. It's so important to go to to the isu manuals for ijs where they can learn how to get level 4 elements. You know because of precedent that they go to 6.0 programs and people for inspiration and elements. It's like they say let's do a nEw twizzle and it gets level one.

omg, so true. I can say anything about the Gadbois team, but can we please make them a monument because they continue getting this kind of lifts be called level 4?

https://youtu.be/BISarsC4XDk?t=177
https://youtu.be/BISarsC4XDk?t=225
https://youtu.be/BISarsC4XDk?t=239

 

[NicolettaL]

omg, so true. I can say anything about the Gadbois team, but can we please make them a monument because they continue getting this kind of lifts be called level 4?

https://youtu.be/BISarsC4XDk?t=177
https://youtu.be/BISarsC4XDk?t=225
https://youtu.be/BISarsC4XDk?t=239

Ok but what it has to do with Russian Ice dance?

 

[nimi]

Ok but what it has to do with Russian Ice dance?

...yeah, and isn't it the step sequence levels that have been the problem for Russian teams, more so than the lift levels? (This is a genuine question, btw, as I'm not an ice dance expert and also haven't poured over the protocols THAT closely and systematically.)

 

[Barb]

My point is that Team Gadbois read the books, they do easier lifts and get level 4, (though I was surprised that they did not anticiped S/D problems), russian teams make difficult twizzles and get level 1 https://youtu.be/1rzcujT8H3I?t=62, https://youtu.be/TOrvHFYmpjI?t=87

By the way, someone think that twizzles that are not straight forward/in a stright line are easier? because someone mentioned in FSU that Nikita fixed his twizzles because now they are doing easier twizzles https://youtu.be/K2u_JLvGEpY?t=30