2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Mens LP

[TontoK]

Unpopular opinion....my favorite lp so far is Jason but I don't like his sp. It's not giving me that Prince program feels which was surprisingly one of my favorites.

I think his LP is an artistic masterpiece in the making. With or without quads.

I dislike his SP enormously. I'm uninterested in seeing it again. Ever.

So your opinion isn't unpopular with me.

 

[Interspectator]

I was thinking that also It has some of the romanticism and drama (without the gurgling sounds, lol) of Tristan but the lyrical feel of The Piano. Kinda want to watch both programs back to back now that you mentioned it.

ETA: So I did watch them. OMG, I was surprised at my reaction. I haven't seen the Tristan FS probably in two years or so and it was still good and appreciate his performance and all that, but after two years of minimalist Jason w/ The Piano watching Tristan Jason felt like eating a big bowl of candy! SO MUCH DRAMA SUGAR. THE COSTUME! The sound effects. It was all sooo much. I watched the WTT version, which means sans yellow pants, which is probably good cause I probably be like even more shocked, ha.

I can kinda even see why it may have been OTT or manufactured artistry or whatever to some people. Anyway, it's good he's evolved since then. I think that program was a good vehicle for him at the time -- he needed something more mature that allowed him to perform like Riverdance. But this probably would have been super disappointing as a FS if this had come AFTER the Piano or the FS was a carbon copy of that.

I feel like this FS is a nice compromise between the two. There's a bit of romanticism and drama but not too much. But it's still pretty minimalistic.

The Hamilton program may seem a bit much too after last year's SP also, which is probably why I'm not all in on it.

Lol! the gurgling sounds and the yellow pants nearly ruined that program for me.

 

[NoNameFace]

It still feels like a work in progress, particularly in terms of element layout. But I think it has enormous potential. It's not so immediately flashy as Riverdance. But it strikes me as the direct descendant of the Tristan AND Piano FDs. Which is fascinating.

I do think that SP is kind of also a work in progress, especially in gelling all elements together and making a compelling wholesome, because there is quite a lot to connect and synchronize together: movement, musicality, expression, character portrayal, hitting all musical accents etc. I respect Jason and his team for not making it any more easier for Jason himself in terms of program packaging - both programs have very distinct, bold concepts in my opinion and they sure are subjects of develop in many areas, technical and artistic, not even mentioning the quad being in making. But the base is there, and it is strong - the strength of it for me is mainly drawn from how those programs are perfectly playing on Jason's performer's qualities.

And as for the Prince SP comparison made - seeing that both of those SPs are very 'showy' in expression, I do feel that the idea behind each of them, the expression mark were designed/planned in different way to be impactful, at least for me, hence this dissonant feeling. I think that Prince SP's 'showy' vibe was designed having in mind where Jason was artistically, performance-wise and in overall shape/state: for me, it played more on this sensual/flirtatious/jazzy string than being totally 'out-there' expression-wise. Hence this seducing, glamour effect of it, appealing to so many people.

I think that 'Hamilton' SP has more Jason in it in terms of his arbitral feel for it and 'taking ownership'/self-designing the final effect - I totally see that Jason want to challenge himself there in performer's qualities area, facing this theme/style by himself. Seeing what piece was chosen for SP, I immediately felt that the program won't be done in halves - it has to have a solid amount of gesticulation, being flashy, vivid and animated and I fully get that this could be an issue. there is a lot more to take in, comparing 'Hamilton' SP to Prince and I'm willing to give myself enough time to do it. What is the most important now for me is this full commitment showed by Jason, high entertaining value and performer quality already there, maybe just in need of right 'amping'. And I am very happy that there is a strong correlation between 'Hamilton', the story and characters, but it is not painfully literal and trying too hard - the concept is used more in a way of showing off Jason and his performers abilities in first place than particular 'Hamilton' moment itself.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I was thinking that also It has some of the romanticism and drama (without the gurgling sounds, lol) of Tristan but the lyrical feel of The Piano. Kinda want to watch both programs back to back now that you mentioned it.

ETA: So I did watch them. OMG, I was surprised at my reaction. I haven't seen the Tristan FS probably in two years or so and it was still good and appreciate his performance and all that, but after two years of minimalist Jason w/ The Piano watching Tristan Jason felt like eating a big bowl of candy! SO MUCH DRAMA SUGAR. THE COSTUME! The sound effects. It was all sooo much. I watched the WTT version, which means sans yellow pants, which is probably good cause I probably be like even more shocked, ha.

I can kinda even see why it may have been OTT or manufactured artistry or whatever to some people. Anyway, it's good he's evolved since then. I think that program was a good vehicle for him at the time -- he needed something more mature that allowed him to perform like Riverdance. But this probably would have been super disappointing as a FS if this had come AFTER the Piano or the FS was a carbon copy of that.

I feel like this FS is a nice compromise between the two. There's a bit of romanticism and drama but not too much. But it's still pretty minimalistic.

The Hamilton program may seem a bit much too after last year's SP also, which is probably why I'm not all in on it.

Right, that's why I say it's the offspring of the two. The Tristan program is about MELOdrama. The Piano is all about flow and quiet intensity. This new program melds the two, tones down the Melo. I can see the through-line.

But you know, maybe it's just me!

 

[Tavi...]

We can agree to disagree. But I think that any skater with sufficient flexibility and at least junior-level spinning ability could do a one-handed back Biellmann. Maybe not as well as well as Brown can but still they can execute. However only a handful of athletes can do a 4Z.

If a spin were worth 12 points then sure, you'd get tons of skaters devoting time to that.

And to be clear, I'm not arguing that spins should be worth 12 points, just that maybe (maybe) they should be worth more. Like Mrs. P, I'm not anti-quad. But I do question the huge bonus points awarded for some of them, and simply think that maybe (maybe) they should be worth less.

OT, but I've recently seen a few attempts at a Jason-like spin, including a very good one by Ashley - I'll be interested to see if it's in one of her programs.

 

[Jaana]

I just rewatched Shoma´s performance, just wonderful, wonderful!!! That is the kind of men´s skating that I prefer to watch... That has everything including e.g. athletism, artistry and speed to please the eyes and all that combined with great music pleasing the ears. It is very early in the season, at the time of the Olympics he will be totally ready, in my opinion.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And to be clear, I'm not arguing that spins should be worth 12 points, just that maybe (maybe) they should be worth more. Like Mrs. P, I'm not anti-quad. But I do question the huge bonus points awarded for some of them, and simply think that maybe (maybe) they should be worth less.

OT, but I've recently seen a few attempts at a Jason-like spin, including a very good one by Ashley - I'll be interested to see if it's in one of her programs.

I do agree that spins should be worth more, especially well-executed ones like Jason. A well-executed spin can earn as much as a triple jump, and that's about right. But I think spins should get bonuses for harder positions -- when executed well (not just straining a leg up into a Biellmann or donut spin). Doing so would favour skaters with more flexibility obviously, but then again quads also favour skaters with greater athleticism/power.