2024 World Championships Men's Free Skate

[TontoK]

The crowd went bananas for Ilia but there are definitely many fans who got excited by the jumps. It's not everyday that you see someone jump like that. Just the quad axel and the crowd was numb... The audience KNEW what was going on... it's not like I heard : is this a double or triple? when he did jump... People were counting the quads and they got very excited. Every single jump deserved a standing ovation. From the quad axel to the backloaded 4lz-eu-3f to the very cool 3lz-3a sequence. The very knowledgeable fans knew that this was a one of a kind jumping performance.

I also jumped on my feet too... and well, I usually do not get excited for jumps and I had seen Ilia at ACI just a few months ago.

So yeah... it was the most exciting performance of the night but not because he was super expressive and skating with blade mastery and intricate choreography. It was exciting because the jumps were awesome and he was skating with enthusiasm, youth and absolutely no fear. A true champion.

To even think it's comparable to Yuma's skating skills and choreography is a strange opinion.
I am 100% happy to celebrate what he put on the ice a few days ago. I am 1000% happy I got to experienced that.
I don't think we need to cheer for things that were not there though.

The next time you see Corey Circelli perhaps you can share your thoughts. I just reported what he said on the video I saw.

To be clear, he didn't make any direct comparison between Ilia and other skaters, except for Adam, whom he said was slower than Ilia.

He simply implied that those who think Ilia doesn't deliver the components are incorrect. The four hosts of the pod, who I think were of the grande dame artiste sort, were sort of caught off guard, although they nodded along when he listed off all the PCS criteria Ilia was hitting. One of them who was at the comp did agree that Adam was slower than Ilia.

The one who was at the event said that some people were leaving a little downtrodden believing that Ilia was going to unbeatable, and Corey halted her in her tracks on that, too. Saying being downtrodden at the prospect of someone being so dominant was disrespectful to that person's talents and work ethic.

Honestly, I thought Corey was of the artiste brand myself, so I was mildly surprised at his take.

 

[el henry]

To be honest, I had a different impression of what Corey said.

Corey definitely said that the crowd going wild was part of Ilia's appeal and "who was to say" that wasn't part of PCS. The other participants in the Zoom session seemed less convinced.

Then Corey said, if I heard him correctly, that if Ilia skated to Skylink (presumably without a crowd) he would get less PCS. Meaning that the crowd affected the judges? But is that what we want?

I don't think anyone challenged Corey with specific examples of other programs (OK, if getting the crowd going is so important, Donovan got the crowd going, why isn't he getting amazing PCS?)

I find the format of Anything Goes to be difficult to follow (not their fault, they are doing their best with what tech they have), so I could be wrong in what I heard.

 

[TontoK]

To be honest, I had a different impression of what Corey said.

Corey definitely said that the crowd going wild was part of Ilia's appeal and "who was to say" that wasn't part of PCS. The other participants in the Zoom session seemed less convinced.

Then Corey said, if I heard him correctly, that if Ilia skated to Skylink (presumably without a crowd) he would get less PCS. Meaning that the crowd affected the judges? But is that what we want?

I don't think anyone challenged Corey with specific examples of other programs (OK, if getting the crowd going is so important, Donovan got the crowd going, why isn't he getting amazing PCS?)

I find the format of Anything Goes to be difficult to follow (not their fault, they are doing their best with what tech they have), so I could be wrong in what I heard.

I'm sort of a new viewer of this pod, and I agree with you on the tech.

I'm not overly impressed with the hosts - there are too many of them, and I'm not convinced they always know what they're talking about - but the few episodes I've watched, they've had active (or recently active) skaters on, and that is really interesting. I'm not sure what clout they have to attract these people, but it must be something. This was the second event that Corey was on. The other, I think, was Europeans recap.

 

[4everchan]

I am fine giving ilia massive points for performance. There are two other components. Choreography. Very bland if you ask me. Skating skills. If you look at his basic skating, it is good, not as good as some others. Is he fast? Relatively speaking, he has improved his speed... But going faster when there are less steps and turns is easier. I find it interesting Corey had the impression Adam was slower.

 

[4everchan]

Also, keep in mind that Corey is still competing. He has to remain positive towards his fellow competitors, especially a guy who can jump, and is a world champion. Otherwise, he would just look envious. He also cannot talk about the judges in a negative manner. I cannot stand these podcasts. They cannot keep my attention due to the limited flow they propose. I cannot elaborate further on Corey's words but I don't think I would give him that much importance anyway.

 

[Arigato]

Who is Corey? Never mind. I just found his skating.

 

[apgold]

Who is Corey?

Corey Circelli, who used to skate for Canada but now is on Team Italy.

 

[Arigato]

Corey Circelli, who used to skate for Canada but now is on Team Italy.

Out of curiosity, do you know how that came about?

 

[4everchan]

Out of curiosity, do you know how that came about?

No real explanation has been given. This raised a lot of questions because Corey was born in the UK. However, he is from Italian descent.
His move is already giving him relative success. Corey won bronze at senior nationals in Italy. his best finish in Canadian seniors was 5th.
My hypothesis (and that of many) is about being able to get access to challengers and other international competitions, which was not likely to happen often for him at this point in Canada as his 3a and 4t are not super stable.

 

[saine]

Also, keep in mind that Corey is still competing. He has to remain positive towards his fellow competitors, especially a guy who can jump, and is a world champion. Otherwise, he would just look envious.

I don't think Corey was entirely positive to the other men from what I remember of the stream. He complained that no one was complaining about Adam Siao Him Fa's short program layout having all the jumps frontloaded (which Roman does as well, but he didn't talk about the Canadian singles skaters.) I don't think anyone is complaining since the 10% bonus is supposed to encourage skaters to not frontload. He's willingly giving up those points, so why complain about it?

Also he talked about Junhwan Cha not being prepared for this, which... He's coming off of injury and was overambitious with his jump layout. He still placed top 10 even with his issues this season, so I wouldn't accuse him of not being prepared when he's coming off a bronze at 4CC. More overambitious since he's the defending silver medalist and would need those quads to repeat on the podium.

I'm taking his opinions with a grain of salt. Corey goes for drama and likes to namedrop a lot (he's definitely getting Guillaume Cizeron choreography!) He is entertaining to watch, but I want to see what his results are next season after some his talk.

 

[4everchan]

I don't think Corey was entirely positive to the other men from what I remember of the stream. He complained that no one was complaining about Adam Siao Him Fa's short program layout having all the jumps frontloaded (which Roman does as well, but he didn't talk about the Canadian singles skaters.) I don't think anyone is complaining since the 10% bonus is supposed to encourage skaters to not frontload. He's willingly giving up those points, so why complain about it?

Also he talked about Junhwan Cha not being prepared for this, which... He's coming off of injury and was overambitious with his jump layout. He still placed top 10 even with his issues this season, so I wouldn't accuse him of not being prepared when he's coming off a bronze at 4CC. More overambitious since he's the defending silver medalist and would need those quads to repeat on the podium.

I'm taking his opinions with a grain of salt. Corey goes for drama and likes to namedrop a lot (he's definitely getting Guillaume Cizeron choreography!) He is entertaining to watch, but I want to see what his results are next season after some his talk.

WOW... so I was hoping he was being nice... and no.. well that shows I don't watch these podcasts and also shows that there are good reasons why not to watch them... I could have given a better review

 

[Arigato]

I don't think Corey was entirely positive to the other men from what I remember of the stream. He complained that no one was complaining about Adam Siao Him Fa's short program layout having all the jumps frontloaded (which Roman does as well, but he didn't talk about the Canadian singles skaters.) I don't think anyone is complaining since the 10% bonus is supposed to encourage skaters to not frontload. He's willingly giving up those points, so why complain about it?

Also he talked about Junhwan Cha not being prepared for this, which... He's coming off of injury and was overambitious with his jump layout. He still placed top 10 even with his issues this season, so I wouldn't accuse him of not being prepared when he's coming off a bronze at 4CC. More overambitious since he's the defending silver medalist and would need those quads to repeat on the podium.

I'm taking his opinions with a grain of salt. Corey goes for drama and likes to namedrop a lot (he's definitely getting Guillaume Cizeron choreography!) He is entertaining to watch, but I want to see what his results are next season after some his talk.

He just got added to my **** list.

 

[4everchan]

I have met over the years many skaters who were competing and not necessarily very aware about everyone else's injuries or condition. Fans often know more about the field's struggles.... Skaters are too busy with their own training... That's why I prefer when they talk to retired skaters instead of current ones.

 

[icewhite]

It's always difficult to contradict a high level skater who should know everything, but I know from other sports like football that there are many elite athletes (pundits...) who talk nonsense about their own sport - just because someone is "in the scene" doesn't mean they know it all...

 

[lariko]

Then Corey said, if I heard him correctly, that if Ilia skated to Skylink (presumably without a crowd) he would get less PCS. Meaning that the crowd affected the judges? But is that what we want?

It cuts both ways. The judges uphold Brown more than Malinin because crowd goes wild. At least crowd going wild when Malinin lands 4A is more attuned with correct judging than when crowd goes wild when Brown pops 2A. Seriously, that ovation for a popped 2A was the most face palming moment of the competition and the biggest argument in favor of discounting crowd's opinions as a popularity contest that has nothing to do with what is actually happening.

 

[el henry]

It cuts both ways. The judges uphold Brown more than Malinin because crowd goes wild. At least crowd going wild when Malinin lands 4A is more attuned with correct judging than when crowd goes wild when Brown pops 2A. Seriously, that ovation for a popped 2A was the most face palming moment of the competition and the biggest argument in favor of discounting crowd's opinions as a popularity contest that has nothing to do with what is actually happening.

There is also an argument that spectators who are in the arena, viewing the skating with their own eyes and judging what is happening in real time, believe that what Jason puts on the ice is athleticism of the highest order (popped 2A aside). Thinking more of the reactions to spins, footwork, transitions. Going wild for those is in fact attuned to correct judging.

The judges did not "uphold" Jason, they judged him correctly. I would argue that Ilia's PCS was inflated, so he was "upheld" by the judges. It doesn't matter because the result is the same, Ilia runs away with the gold. I am not saying Ilia is a bad skater, (not at all) I am saying his transitions, skating skills, spins, execution of choreo and steps are not the equal of Jason's. Since that is the highest standard, that is no disrespect. Of course, Ilia's jumps are in a class of their own.

I'm glad that there are skaters who rouse the crowd and who inspire applause. I do not agree with Corey that this should be part of the judging.

 

[cailuj365]

"Ability to capture the viewer, to arouse emotions" is one of the bullet points in Presentation:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/31475-composition-presentation-and-skating-skills-charts/file

It's one of like 50 bullet points for overall PCS, but it is part of it. But honestly, some people talk about Ilia's PCS as if he were the Canadian men's medalists this year. He's way beyond that. He's not exceptional, but he's very, very good. To describe him as a junior skater (not necessarily posters here but Adam Rippon just did) feels like subconscious envy, and his score is well deserved.

I disagree that people are standing for Jason's popped 2A. They're standing for his gorgeous skating, spins, choreography, rather than a single popped jump. His marks are also well deserved. Perhaps I would have had Yuma above Jason for PCS, but they're both tops.

 

[el henry]

"Ability to capture the viewer, to arouse emotions" is one of the bullet points in Presentation:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/31475-composition-presentation-and-skating-skills-charts/file

It's one of like 50 bullet points for overall PCS, but it is part of it. But honestly, some people talk about Ilia's PCS as if he were the Canadian men's medalists this year. He's way beyond that. He's not exceptional, but he's very, very good. To describe him as a junior skater (not necessarily posters here but Adam Rippon just did) feels like subconscious envy, and his score is well deserved.

I disagree that people are standing for Jason's popped 2A. They're standing for his gorgeous skating, spins, choreography, rather than a single popped jump. His marks are also well deserved. Perhaps I would have had Yuma above Jason for PCS, but they're both tops.

Thank you for reminding me of this.

I have been following Ilia longer than many people on this Board probably knew he existed. I saw him skate as a junior at a summer comp four years ago where at 14 he was a tiny thing with enormous presence. I like to see that presence, even if it is just the "I can do THAT" presence that @Mathman accurately described. I'm not sure it merits nines in PCS>

The Canadian men's medallists may not be your best example. International junior Anthony Paradis was the Canadian senior men's bronze medalist. At 16, his style, presence, and "it" factor eclipse most senior men. Anywhere.

Anthony was born with this "it" factor, so I don't think that can be learned. Perhaps some of the other factors. But if Ilia had Anthony's presence, I shudder to think.....

 

[cailuj365]

Lol, I knew someone would bring up Anthony Paradis as soon as I mentioned Canadian men's medalists. He has fabulous presence, but he's currently really technically limited. You could see Anthony in the front row audience during Ilia's 4A slow-mo. I wonder what was going through his head. But yeah, I was not thinking about Anthony, but Aleksa.

 

[el henry]

Lol, I knew someone would bring up Anthony Paradis as soon as I mentioned Canadian men's medalists. He has fabulous presence, but he's currently really technically limited. You could see Anthony in the front row audience during Ilia's 4A slow-mo. I wonder what was going through his head. But yeah, I was not thinking about Anthony, but Aleksa.

Obviously I brought him up in context of our discussion on PCS, and the reference to the PCS of Canadian skaters. Anthony is sui generis in that department, much as Ilia is sui generis for jumps.

I put a photo of Anthony patching ice at Worlds in his FF. I'm sure he thought the jumps were cool, like everyone else, skater and non-skater.